http://dbd.game/killswitch
Artist directly damaging survivors with her crows should be nerfed
I want to know why to this day the only real counterplay to this killer is running away whenever she puts a crow at a loop cause there's legit nothing else a survivor can do about it ? W keying shouldn't be the only counterplay to a killer, it's unhealthy game design, simple as that.
Huntress is a 110% speed ranged killer whose power gets easily countered by high walls loops and who has weak map pressure (especially on maps where she can't get any long range hatchets hits) but Artist is a 115% speed ranged killer who literally counters every single loop in this game and also has much greater map pressure than the slower Huntress, like how is this fair ?
The crows should either just always swarm survivors even when they go through their path so Artist always has to get at least 2 hits with her power before she can injure a survivor (considering she's a 115% speed killer this would be fair, it's not like she has rely on her power to get hits like the 110% speed killers do) or the crow flight paths should be nerfed from 7,5 meters to 3 meters so she can't just counter every loop in the game and the survivors actually have a chance to outplay her at loops instead of just mindlessly W keying away the entire match while Artist just follows them behind.
It honestly speaks of her horrendous power design that even though she's generally considered a top tier killer almost nobody plays her and the fact almost nobody plays her is the only reason you don't see people complaining about her like you see for Blight, Skull Merchant or the recently buffed Billy. But that's honestly still not an excuse to leave such an unhealthy designed killer go unchecked for as long as she did.
Comments
-
Was actually recently practicing against this killer with comp players and all agree that there is little real counterplay against her in chase, besides the actual unique pathing. Regardless of that, a good Artist will know how to deal with this, will force survivor sooner or later (rather sooner) in a loose loose situation and gets the hit. There are so many issues with this killer but the main ones are her addons Thick Tar and Baby Shoes for obvious reasons and that animations cancel repelling the crows.
We wont see much complain, since she is a very rare killer to find. Still, the issues are there but for now, i believe she is low priority.
1 -
This. Not much to add here, my friend, I agree completely.
Ranged killers are tricky to create and balance. Huntress and Deathslinger are good, in my opinion, but Artist and Trickster... not a single drop of fun.
6 -
Annnd here we go...knew the day was coming...
Artist is normal speed because when aiming for longer shots, it takes a double tap to actually injure, unlike huntress who takes 1 no mater how far. Artist only injures at once when close up. In addition lockers can immediately remove swarms making most long distance shots hard to anyone who knows what their doing (luckily for us most dont). While its somewhat map dependent, you can actually loop an artist by chaining tiles. Staying at 1 tile and trying to loop isn't going to work, but if you can chain tiles though she'll be effectively an m1 killer. She places you bolt to new tile, she places, back to old tile. Old and new shelter woods and her own map are ones that can do this (least for us). The reason people keep holding w? Its the easiest way to buy time, thats effectively true with all killers.
If you run into a placed crow, her timer also continues down meaning she has a shorter window to place and aim depending on how many shes placed already. This means that if this change were to go through, when she places more than 1 crow thats not set up in a convoluted way (in essence it would be 1 at the loop to swarm and 1 or 2 aimed at where the survivor would be when they get swarmed. Thats 9-12 seconds for the cooldown for that hit, not counting add on [shes got only 1 add on for firing crows cd], the set up time that can easily be deleted by teammates, the time to get to that loop from survivors holding m1 anyway, etc.), survivors would be able to remove the swarm before she can even try to land a hit.
We like her kit because its one of the most versatile in dbd not the most horrendous. Just because people do play her the dull way doesn't make her kit bad.
11 -
I mean the counterplay kind of just becomes run at the crows before she can actually fire them and just eat them and keep running rather than change pathing at all
1 -
Unlike Huntress, The Artist can check 3-5 gens at once every 10 seconds. If she hits them with birds they’ll let off gens to repel so she has built in slowdown as well. If it misses she gets Killer Instinct and can know how many people are on a gen. I personally think no killer without a movement ability should be 110. M Cote said the only reason Huntress is 110 is to encourage players to use hatchets more not because she would be too strong. That was during the 2017 game dev stream video when she released.
2 -
huntress yes but i think deathslinger still feels a bit clunky
1 -
Checking gens means she'll be unable to fire immediately. Swarms can be removed in 8.5 seconds at maximum (8 seconds normally) or immediately via locker. This also gives a warning to distant survivors saying "hey be careful she knows". The killer instinct has a short proc range by default (there is an add on that does increase the range to at what we can guess is around 2 meters) and isnt always accurate as if survivors dodge then theres no info (which unless using an add on they will see the birds coming and theres a decently loud audio warning as well).
6 -
Still huge info to have not saying she should be nerfed at all but still. And 8 seconds of not being on a Gen 10-15 times a game adds up
1 -
So her kit isn't bad cause of people using it for dull tactics even though the kit itself is the one that allows for such dull tactics to begin with ? Alright then. And the only other real counterplay you could come up against her with is map and RNG dependent, cause otherwise she just transforms the game into the hold W key simulator for both the survivor and the killer.
2 -
Finally "nerf Artist" post, I've been waiting for this for year.
Just say that you were destroyed by a good Artist, we'll understand.
3 -
That's not so simple. Yes, press W is good against Artist but this goes for every killer. Too see the potencial to switch the loop is often a great idea because it extends the chase. In addition, if holding W is unhealthy game design, many killers would need a rework (Dredge, Knight, Pig, Hag for example). You can also force some mindgames against Artist to outplay her power like faking to pass the crow and then do a double back to force to shoot. You can also force her to waste her power. Other survivors can also remove crows by running into them so Artist has to make the decision to either focus on survivor one or to hit the other survivor that bothers her but this would give survivor one the chance to find a safer place (yes, you can say this doesn't work in SoloQ and this might be true but this is rather a SoloQ issue than an Artist issue that the developers should look, especially when Dredge and Knight have similar teamworkcounterplay). Focusing on survivor one by placing new crows means her power goes on longer cooldown or survivor two or another can remove it. Lastly, year Artist can create situations where she can hit a survivor no matter what they do but this goes for many other killers.
Huntress is a 110% Killer because her Hatchet takes a healthstate no matter how far or near you are. You always have one chance to dodge her power. It is true that Huntress has less map pressure than Artist because Artist is less map dependent. However, some killers are better in one thing than other killer but then these killers are better in other thing than other killers. That's the nature of killer powers. For example Huntress can do a double tap to down survivor instandly but Artist cannot to this or Huntress can often better camp than Artist. These trades have every killer.
Yes, hitting a survivor four times with your power will be a good idea or making the power nearly useless to drop the usage to zero so no one has to face her again after 99 matches and is forced to think about how to act against her in chase.
The reason why only five players per region plays Artist is because you have to learn a lot about her and how her power works. She is very complex and force you to always think two steps a head, to keep in mind how the survivor plays ect. (very high skillceilling). Now, this is all fair because she is strong but Nurse and Blight have also a high skillceilling but much stronger than Artist. As a result, why spend so much time in this killer, when you can spend the same amound of time into a much stronger killer. Another reason is preference some players play the killer that they like from their design or for other reasons (like have more fun with a different killerpower) which is why not every person is a Nurse or Blight main.
Just because something is not common, does not mean it is not a problem for the game. However, if something is a bigger problem in the game and more common, it should be checked first which is why the focus of the developers and community is more on things like Blight and Skull Merchant. Another reason is also the f* up from the developers because players complained four years(?) about Blight and the developers did nothing and now they do something but must also deal with 100 different other things that happen in the game. This can be quit overwhelming. In case of Billy, I think the buffshock is still in the bones of many players and they still need to adapt to it. But all this is a different story.
Overall, Artist is a strong and good killer but a healthy one because she has room for counterplay and nothing that puts the game in a unhealthy spot. I also think some players struggle against Artist because they don't really know her counterplay because she is a very uncommon killer which means not many players have the practical experience against her. As a result, this also gives her as well as other uncommon killer a much stronger look.
I agree with @Rulebreaker. Fire off all of your crows to check generators is a bad idea because the cooldown is too long to snipe the swarmed survivors - You can't put pressure on these survivors. I mean, cool survivors are not on generator for 8 seconds but that doesn't help you at all if you down get a down. In addition, these survivors have often the chance to jump into a locker to get rid of the swarm and then to run away, if Artist comes to them.
Little bit offtopic but I agree with Starrseed that Deathslinger still needs some tweaks to make him better. Huntress, especially when the PTB goes live, is in a good spot now.
5 -
Me too! The only reason she's gone so long unscathed is because so few people play her. She's my second least favorite killer to play vs, every loop is just a lose lose vs her. She needs to be 110.
Dunno about OP's repeated appeals to game design though. I feel her overall design is fine, even interesting. Maybe they're a professional game dev.
1 -
Thats fair, but again, it can be faulty info. We've had many times where we thought the gen was clear only to have it pop abit later. Its effectively info survivors give. Wont deny the time can add up, but thats also again conditional on survivors (technically people can ignore being swarmed if they need to).
Nope. Is the huntress kit bad because people will simply zone till point plank? Its billy's kit bad for most the ones we've seen going up to our backs and point blank that? Is freakin merchant's kit bad because most try and hold a three gen regardless on anything? The listed dull tactics are all caused by the players. Just cause it can do something dull doesn't mean the whole kit is bad.
Theres more counters than the map, though thats the ones people don't ever do. Your basically trying to outsmart/outplay the artist. If you think outplaying is circling a pallet till forced to drop, thats not gona work. Bait shots, take idle birds when needed, as stated chain loops together (the only one that we can think of atm where its near impossible is Rotten fields, and thats open enough people can do our favorite counter) use lockers if able (iron maiden is a good pick on her for this reason, but guess what? its one less slowdown to deal with if she picks it). Hell teammates help as 2 good survivors working together can cause a lot of grief. Ever play Chicken? Our favorite counter is:
strangely its harder than it seems to many...
We blame you for this...
2 -
Nah, she shouldn't be 110. I swear, everytime i read "oh, this killah should be 110%", i'm more than sure that this guy didn't play at this killer at all.
I'm glad that i finally read "nerf Artist" post only because i'm Artist main and seems like community underestimate her power, since there were no posts about her at all. And people love to cry about anything that stronger than mediocre in this game, so it kinda surprised me.
OP asking to remove her ability to make direct damage with crow, but it will end with bad players starting to be good and stop putting the bird in the pallet as only way to play her. Trust me, you don't want that.
I'm sorry...
2 -
No killers should be 110 without a movement speed ability tbh. Like Blight is 115 AND can cross the whole map in 5 seconds. Every map has loops that force 110 killers to M1 and indoor maps are worse.
2 -
My favorite killer... 😭
0 -
The Artist is famous as a killer in the strong category, but the conditions for her to use her power irrationally are difficult, so if a Survivor is cornered to that extent, it's a result of her work. If you don't know that the cooldown time varies depending on the number of crows, you need to learn about artists first.
0 -
artist is one of the most stupidly designed killer. she has projectiles that goes through everything with unlimited range and on top of that she can place a trap and make every single loops and pallets of the game completely useless it's terrible to go against her. she definitly need a nerf or a rework.
1
