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Can we have a new player satisfaction survey?
Im pretty sure a lot of survivors have so much to say about the game state balance and fun wise. Also, just making new skins and nice designed new survivors doesnt make up to the fact that the game is too rough, unfun and unbalanced against survivors. If we get the chance to say how we feel, maybe they will start to listen to the majority of players, that are survivor players
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It's only going to get worse with the next update. Massive amounts of buffs for killers. Not a single thing for survivors.
You know how they feel about what you are asking.
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It can't be helped because there is a discrepancy between the game balance that a beginner feels and the game balance that comes from the experience of a non-novice. What we need is beginner mode, not buffs or nerfs. And when it comes to these kinds of topics, the only thing that is always talked about is the novice survivor.
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No one has said anything about novice survivors except you. And it’s an irrelevant statement point. Players at every level have a right to share what they think of the game.
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This is the opinion of a new player, so he's basically a beginner, right? I think that's the real point, if not all of it. If there is a new person who believes that he or she is capable, that is free.
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While they can be an indicator, surveys dont always tell the full story and can often times be missleading the devs to horrible decisions.
For example, many survivors are currently very upset about the overall ballance and that is from my pov understandable. But when we look at the Bloodpoint incentives, it is pretty equal and from my research even a little bit in killers favour (slightly more BP for playing killer). This could mean, survivors are happy enough to continue playing the game / not playing killer.
Another one is that many killer complaining a lot how unfair most of the maps are. We can see this in the "Mapping the Realm" section. But when we look at it from objective and statistic standpoint, most maps are actually in the killers favour.
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There will be more, we do those surveys on a regular basis. In the meantime, I would strongly urge you to share any thoughts you have in the feedback section if you're alright with that. The surveys aren't the only way we collect feedback, they just help us reach a wider group of people who may not want to share their thoughts publicly.
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The thing is, just because they ask about something it doesn't mean they do what is needed nor they would do anything at all. You see that regularly during PTBs. Look at invocation. 10 people said to make it like BNP, 30 said even thats not enough. What happened? They made it like BNP BUT even reduced charges. Surveys are even worse than that.
As someone whos work is about dealing with feedback regularly, its really annoying to see how they handle feedback here.
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You make it sound as if they only ever listen to killer players. A brief look at DbD's history shows that to very much not be true. I agree that solo survivor is often a pretty miserable experience unless you have some good team mates that don't suck and run around like headless chickens. But other than, the game is in a pretty good state balance wise. Not optimal, sure, but much better than in the past and there can always be some improvement. A game like DbD will likely never be perfectly balanced. There were years when the balance was atrocious and we're thankfully long past that.
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I will make a fact check about that soon since im curous who really got more changes over the years.
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Don't get me wrong, but is the feedback section any good at all? I can hardly imagine that much of what is suggested there will actually be implemented
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In the meantime, there's a 'did you have fun?' option in the endgame screen. You can rate your match out of 5. I remember a dev saying once before that they take note of that, so I'll use it on occasion.
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I always do, but me and and a lot of other survivor friends are feeling really unheard and unseen by you guys
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I have 4k hours and been around since 2021
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I always comment there, but never really felt seen by the devs. it looks like the only opinions that are taken into account are the ones that favors killers
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this sounds like revenge, since survivors had the upper hand before 2022, now they must suffer and killers must have the upper hand. how about everyone having equal chances? how about every side having equally strong and game changing perks?
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They want to get a player satisfaction survey that is new. Not a satisfaction survey for only new players.
[New] [player satisfaction survey] instead of [new player] [satisfaction survey]
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What from this next update is pro-killer in general?
- Huntress gets a few more hatchets
- Clowns Bottles actually do something, for that, the One-Shot-Addon is nerfed (which is fine)
- Pigs Aura-Reading of the Boxes gets removed for a bit of faster Crouching and a bit better Ambush. Will it pay out? We have to wait
- anything else I missed? Oh yeah, Mangled-Statuseffect nerfed.
What do killers have to face?
- Basekit Borrowed Time 10sec + Haste
- Hook Grabs are removed
- a lot of Gen-Defense-Perks got nerfed over the last months, while Gen-Speed-Up Perks and Toolboxes are untouched or even better than before (Deja-Vu for example).
- Anti-Facecamping-Mechanic for brainless gameplay in terms of rescue missions
- even more Endurance-Effects
Whats the future?
- Deceisive-Strike Buff
- Ultimate Weapon Nerf
- Twins-Changes (I assume in the end its a nerf, but better QoL)
I can easily continue about more things survivors got gifted for absolutely nothing, but lets be real: It doesnt care anyone. I can live with the current Survivor and with the current Killer in general. I think the game is balence-wise in its best position since I started playing in 2021, however: The Gap between Trash-Tier-Killers and good Killers is still too big. To make it easy: Speed is everything. A normal 4.6m/s-Killer will never be a match for Killers like Blight, new Hillbilly, Wesker, Oni, Nurse or Spirit. Passive-Injure-Abilities like Plague are a whole other level than the need of a M1-Gameplay. Funwise, I think after 4.000 hours its only natural that the excitement goes down a bit.
So in the end I think you overdramatise a bit, which is fine if you feel that way, but in my opinion (and I play both roles more or less equally, I think the game is in a decent spot).
Post edited by KaTo1337 on6 -
Is that like a actuall job at bhvr? Like reading the forum and maybe twitter and gathering what people think into lists to discuss?
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This feels ridiculously cynical for a whole lot of reasons. First of all, to answer the question
anything else I missed?
- A new killer
- Huntress also got faster windup, not just more hatches
- Clown also got extra bottles, not just a buffed effect on his speed bottles
- Demo got buffs to his shred cooldown (corresponding addon numbers tweaked to compensate)
- Doctor got buffs to his range and detonation delay (corresponding addon numbers tweaked to compensate)
- Hag got basically everything about her traps buffed (corresponding addon numbers tweaked to compensate)
- Hag also got some of her worst addons reworked to be good instead of detrimental
Meanwhile, most of the things that you complain about are QOL things that, without them, would make the game even more unplayable than it already is for solo survivors. The two ways I could interpret those points are either complaining that survivors have tools at their disposal, or saying they shouldn't feel that things are bad because those specific features exist.
To the first, "Oh no, you can't knock the guy down who just got unhooked before they even get a chance to start running, how sad that they get to play the game, that must be very insulting to you personally" would be the performatively condescending way of getting the point across - if you're complaining about having to contend with those things ("here's what killers have to face" makes it seem like your focus is that killers are so challenged by these mechanics) it comes across as being upset that these mechanics that basically just give free wins to anyone not facing top players in a 4-man swf can no longer give free wins.
To the second possibility, "It could be even worse" is a terrible counterargument. Kidnapping someone and putting them in your basement is terrible, and saying "but I'm feeding you when I could be starving you to death so you have it great" does not refute the fact that kidnapping and locking someone in your basement is wrong (going with the horror movie analogy here).
There's also the double standard you've set up. When talking about benefits killers get, you almost exclusively talk about things that are coming out only in the next patch. When talking about stuff survivors have, you bring up things that have been accumulating for the last year and a half. If you need to go back 18 months to make the list of survivor QOL stuff seem comparable to the things killers get in just one patch, you're kind of accidentally proving the opposite point.
The fact is, solo survivor feels miserable to play, and a lot of people are saying it. Aside from more niche creators I follow that are saying it, Ay*** is saying it, even icon of the Killer community *** is saying it (names censored to comply with forum rules, but you can probably figure out who i mean). The fact that survivors are allowed to run 4 perks now because they don't have to run BT to give their teammate more than a 0% chance to run away does not make everything they've said invalid.
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It is, yes! We regularly read through it take notes. Though I will say that there's a big distinction between feedback and a suggestion. Feedback is when someone shares their thoughts on something or points out a problem, suggestions are when someone proposes a solution to a problem.
The feedback is most important to us. We want to see what people think of stuff and why, as well as how widespread those feelings are (do many people feel the same way, or is it heavily divided). It helps us spot common critiques and helps us decide what are the best ways to solve the problems that people have. For example, if a perk has two effects and most people are frustrated by only one of them, we would know that nerfing the other effect wouldn't solve that issue.
Suggestions on the other hand are also nice, but not quite as useful. They can still help us gauge interest to different kinds of changes by looking at other people's reactions, but realistically there's a very slim chance any particular suggestion will make it into the game due to sheer probability. Say there's a meta perk that many people find frustrating. There might be dozens (if not hundreds or more) suggestions on how to change it, and each one will be different from the last. In the end, the discussions that come out of them are still very important and can help us spot additional concerns & flaws, and decide which is the best way to proceed.
In short, yes, we read through it often, just try not to get your heart set on any specific suggestion because it's unlikely that one in particular will be chosen!
It's many jobs, in fact. There's an entire team of community managers who are there to take feedback (among other things). We've even got team members around the world to collect feedback from some of the largest non-English communities as well.
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Thank you very much for this great answer. That was very understandable
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I bought the game for 10 people 9 returned the game pretty sure new survivors don't like the state of the game. Also dont hold your breath this is a killer majority forum. No one can hear you scream here as stated by @peantis above one of the dev/managers/ therye gonna make the game how they want.
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As I mentioned in my post, I am fine with the current Balancing. I just dont share the opinion that SoloQ is as horrible as you say it is. At least not because Killers are (sometimes) strong. If its horrible, its mostly not because the Killers had some changes to their advantage, but rather awfully bad teammates who let you die on your first hook or suicide themselve or just ignoring the objective at all.
4 survivors are meant to challenge 1 killer. Of course, the "Team-Role" is handicaped when you dont act like a team. But this is not a reason to blame the developers for buffing some C-Tier-Killers like Clown, Pig or a B-Tier-Killer at best like Demogorgon.
To help SoloQ-Survivors, the devs desperately need to implement some gimmicks which help soloq but not making SWF even more broken than a good SWF-Team against the average Killer-Character already is.
If I would have to say anything, first I would introduce the Perk-Loadout Informations into the Loading-Screen (when I had the knowhow of a game designer XD) like DBDMobile already has for years. Then, I would give some Quick-Message-Options like "I stay on the gen", "Ill go for the rescue" etc. - once again, DBDMobile is far better in this regards. These are just 2 minor changes which would help SoloQ a lot.
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I am not "blaming the developers for buffing [killers]."
Your initial post brought up the killer buffs coming down the pipeline and compared them to mechanics that benefit survivors introduced over a far longer period of time, so I was pointing out how your contrasting of those two things failed to alleviate my complaints about the state of the game for solo survivors and in some ways demonstrated both the basis for those complaints and the actively damaging attitude a lot of people have towards any criticism of the state of the game.
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If you really intend to do such a list, please be careful what you put on it. Back then when this forum didnt exist yet some survivor put a "survivors got nerfed worse, killers got more buffs"-list on the steam discussions.
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I think it included killer bugfixes as nerfs to survivor, among other nonsene.
If i remember correctly, within hours of heated discussion someone made a more objective list dismisding that first one as plain wrong.
The forum's reaction would be interesting, or a clusterf...
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Revenge is quite an exaggeration and I'd be quite interested to know what you consider "equally strong and game-changing perks".
Btw, equal changes cannot exist for two reasons: a team of 4 survivors vs. 4 random survivors will inherently never be on the same level of strength, making balancing that essentially impossible, and the devs do not actually want a 50:50 kill rate, it is supposed to be 60:40.
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I play survivor more than killer 60/40 and I’m telling you how I feel about the balance changes. You cant come here and try to say that my opinion isn’t valid just because you dont see that way. A lot of people have diferent perceptions of what is unfun and unbalanced. Me and a lot of survivors I know and I see in twitter and forums are saying loud and clear: this isn’t good how it is right now. If you disagree, that’s ok, but you cant invalidate this, you cant decide for other people how they feel or e hats fun or fair, doing so is borderline gaslighting. and you don’t know me to say that it is because I play for to long. Disagree all you want, but my opinion and perception is valid and should be heard too, despite it does not fit in your narrative of what is best for the game fun
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thanks!! this is exactly what I think. but people really try to mislead us with this faux buffs that survivor get. despite HUD and base kit borrowed time and removed hook grabs that were great and needed survivor lost all strong perks, medkits, tool boxes, MFT, DH, CoH, Iron Will, Self Care, got extra 10 seconds of gen, lost Decisive Strike, killers got quicker animations for everything, kicks regress 5%, pop is 30% now, pain res is 25% now instead of 15%. the list is endless. and we have the false buffs, antifacecamp which is useless and anti3gen which was just a buff to killer gen regression and removed gen tapping.
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survivors lost too much and got almost nothing to make up for all the lost things
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I dont say your opinion is not valid. I just said that the way you feel is fine but I feel different. All good.
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The issues I have noticed are the roles are worse at different points. The survivor role has a lot of issues at the lower mmr area. You get sandbagging teammates, new players, and players who have lower skill ceilings. This is also where you get a good chunk of killers who are learning so they do camp hooks and do tactics involved with higher success, especially into lower skilled survivors.
The killers side faces the challenges in the higher mmr. The speed that a high skilled group can accomplish their objectives is impressive. This can lead to many killers dropping the role or lowering their mmr purposefully to get easy matches. The second also leading to upsetting new survivors.
These issues are difficult to balance as if you improve survivors it will make the higher tier players even more difficult. If you improve killers it makes it miserable for new players.
One idea I did see was making the ranked and casual modes and reworking how the extra bp is gained for season to accommodate that. This will not completely fix the issue, but it would send many of the competitive players to focus in ranked and give the casual players more of the games they would want. The match speed could be an issue but could be tested to find a way to make it decent.
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