a weird, questionable bias i’ve noticed with Sable (and recent original survivors)
Sable has green rarity skins aswell as releasing with 2 purples, guess who also released like this, Vittorio.
let’s go back to the 6 year anniversary, Haddie, who technically did release with greens, had them twitch prime locked. She had an anniversary outfit and a linked set, the anniversary outfit’s head was just an extremely simple mask with her hairstyle flipped horizontally. So if you didn’t have the twitch prime outfit, you’d have only have 3 head piece options which were all very similar because her yellow rarity head pieces were barely different (if even at all). So instead of fixing the yellow head pieces or giving her new cosmetics… SHE HAD TO WAIT 10.5 MONTHS FOR HER FIRST POST LAUNCH OUTFIT… and this was only because the community rallied for her so she could get more skins.
now, Vittorio, the very obviously designed horny bait character only made to sell well. Let’s see… Green’s on launch plus 2 SHIRTLESS outfits (they’re not even hiding it, it’s pretty obvious he’s a sex sells character). Meanwhile, he also got a lunar new year outfit 2 weeks after his release, a rift outfit in the midchapter after his chapter (the reason this is special is because this is when they started featuring the newest characters in the rift) and the chapter after Forged in Fog; Tools of Torment, he got a TECHWEAR skin (i’ll mention why this is important later with Gabriel). And the thing is, he still gets an insanely consistent amount of skins.
after that, we had the Lyra siblings, who had no greens but they did get recolors of their outfits (although strangely not their release ones but post release ones). They get a very good amount of skins but the lack of green rarity items bugs me out a little.
now Gabriel is the place where i feel the most weirded out by, Gabriel had zero greens on launch (WHICH MIND YOU HE REALLY COULD HAVE USED BECAUSE HE WAS STUCK WITH THE LIFE JACKET), then when does finally get skins (which mind you, nowhere near as consistently as someone like Vittorio) they all have this stupid futuristic limitation, which i don’t mind, cause i like doing different spins on themes, but why does he have this limit when mr. medieval Vittorio gets to wear modern era stuff (again, Vittorio is totally not designed to sell well).
now onto Sable, now before i say anything, i really like Sable! Everything about her is enjoyable and she suits my tastes perfectly in both visuals and backstory/personality. But it’s clear as day she was very intentionally made to be extremely likeable. Not to mention her being friends with Mikaela, which is awesome for word building, is also ironic since Mikaela is one of the most popular survivors, does say a lot.
(this post isn’t meant to rag on recolors or something, i love recolors especially with the unknown having so many default weapon recolors compared to a lot of recent killers. This post is just meant to call out a weird bias i’ve noticed)
edit: my point didn’t come across properly my apologies, i get that sales are sales and popularity obviously means more skins, it’s more so just that the release bias has been a little weird, cause Sable and Vittorio get greens and 2 purples immediately when Lyra siblings and Gabriel only got 1 purple with no greens (they didn’t even bother making easy recolors of their release purples).
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It's obvious Sable is their money maker for the year. Nothing wrong with that though
But we'll se how cosmetic distribution is this year. I'd imagine sable will beat haddie by the end of the year :(
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I would like to remind you that BHVR is not a charity, but a normal company.
Haddie, despite the good number of skins, continues to not be used by anyone... and the few haddies I see in game are always with the default skin or the old rift skin or the Christmas sweater. Many Vittorios in my lobbies have skins from the shop... in short, the sales of "shirtless vittorio" pay the developers to make skins that are not purchased by anyone. If you want to support a character... buy his skins!!!
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There's only so many haddie skins i can buy before i run out lmao :(
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I literally don't see many vitttorios either. Not even his recent skin I only seen 1 person wear it. And not many people like vittorio that much.
But we all know why this is happening. And like you said, they are a company. But it still doesn't change the fact that they know what they are doing and it doesn't look good on them for doing this. They are literally setting up their PoC characters to fail. And that bothers me. Of course a character will be forgotten if you don't give them a fair enough # of skins and you leave them to rot on their debut
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They have their finger on the pulse of their playerbase. They know what will sell well and what won't. I gotta take issue with this though -
"they’re not even hiding it, it’s pretty obvious (Vittorio is) a sex sells character"
But why do they have him slapping fleas or whatever off himself in lobby 😭
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yes, the "Vittorios" are not very popular, but they definitely are more than Haddie and definitely have more money to spend on skins (in my experience). 🤣 I've been seeing a lot of "shirtless Jonah" lately.
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Sable in title yet half the thread is getting mad at Vittorio for being attractive (?) and getting skins due to this fact.
It's also weird because the Lyras, despite having no release skins, have also been getting good cosmetics every other patch which you admit to but it doesn't count because they don't have green rarity cosmetics?
Haddie and Gabriel having horrid designs(debatable) and being unpopular has nothing to do with the success of Vittorio/The Lyras/Sable.
BHVR already made up for the fact that they fumbled with Haddie's cosmetic situation by giving her a ton of unique outfits, and she's still unpopular because her design simply isn't appealing to a lot of people, which shouldn't matter anyways because your love for the character should supercede community perception especially because the character is still getting outfits despite this.
It's honestly time to let go of this discourse and let it fizzle out on Twitter. There is no hidden agenda at play.
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Pretty Survivor = Popular Survivor
More people willing to buy skins and mix and match
Uglier Survivor = Non-Popular Survivor
Less people willing to buy skins, let alone even play the character
Sable was literally made to be pretty and sell skins. The 'goth' theme is pretty popular, I literally haven't seen fewer than 3 Sable Wards per lobby yet. Haddie is, objectively, an uglier survivor, and despite BHVR's best efforts, people just don't want to play as her. Why wouldn't BHVR learn this lesson and keep making skins for characters that aren't being used? They have the stats anyway, they know who is popular and who isn't.
It sucks but it is what it is. You call it 'bias' but it's just a business model.
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Quick everyone get thirsty for Quentin and he might get some skins!
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Is this actually coming from a vittorio main calling haddie and Gabriel horrid designs when vittorio within the community is hated for being medieval going modern? Oh I seen it all. You are lucky he's treated as a thirst trap, cause that's the only reason why he has been consistently getting skins and it's also a reason ppl are turned off from him at release.
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Tbh i do agree with this statement i can’t lie, i stand by this and agree but a character not having their first post launch skin for 10.5 months i find a bit odd. What i also find odd is how BHVR gives certain characters nicer treatment on release than others, which kinda makes it seem like half the survivors made today aren’t meant to be interesting but genetically created to make funds, meanwhile characters with interesting backstories get pushed aside or BHVR makes extremely bad outfits for them (cough cough Gabriel)
my main question with this post is to ask why Sable and Vittorio got special treatment but Gabriel and the Lyras didn’t. (Which i won’t lie, i probably could’ve descripted better).
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I agree with this statement, what i probably could’ve explained better is their release bias (cause Bias post release doesn’t exist cause sales are sales).
Vittorio and Sable get greens and 2 purples day one. Lyra siblings and Gabriel get one purple each with no greens
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It’s sad because I don’t think she’s really ugly. She’s just not what Hollywood conditioned the masses to see as “beautiful”.
For me, personally, I’d have designed her without the scar on her face and given her a different eye color.
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'Hated by the community' is a big stretch. Echo chambers on social media are hardly reflective of reality and their dislike for the character has always been rooted in bitterness over their own favorite survivor. Especially when you consider his design is fully cohesive within his lore.
In any case it wouldn't change me liking him because I don't like things just because others do.
I want to like Haddie and Gabriel because they have cool stories. But BHVR botched them badly.
Them making Haddie look so old face-wise despite having a 'slimthicc' body just looks bad and outfits won't fix it. She needs a facial remodel, fixing her hair was a good start. Won't even go into detail about how awful her default is because it's evident.
In Gabriel's case, him only getting bulky pants and body pieces, on top of their refusal to give him a hairstyle that doesn't suck is really hurting him. BHVR needs to stop overdesigning his outfits and give him casual wear like everyone else. It's no shocker that his iron Maiden shirt is one of his best cosmetics at the moment.
Circling back to the original point outlined in OP, The Lyras success despite a anemic release shatters any grounds to argue that POC characters are neglected or that BHVR gives preferential treatment to non-poc survivors.
It really does boils down to certain characters having worse designs than others in my opinion.
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We literally know why. People here are just so inconsiderate to point out that the motives of this company is based on the perception of their fanbase. Some of it may be as innocent as "This character looks just like me", but you begin to see the pattern when bhvr acts on that and reap the benefits of it which is why we see the pattern we see today. If their own creation do not meet those expectations, they are doomed from the start, and it looks purposefully too. Especially on the survivor side. We literally just got Sable, a survivor who was never mentioned in mikaela's lore at all over Julien, a man of course, who disappeared just like mikaela and is her roommate. I don't have to tell you why they decided to create a whole new female survivor that's literally a splitting image of a popular character. Each one where bhvr marketing incense items etc from mikaela to a tea cup for Sable. It's common sense
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Personally, you listing the design aspects of these characters really doesn't concern me at all. Cause that's all on the devs and their design team which they have plenty of resources. My main concern as the OP has addressed is the unequal fair treatment of not getting green rarities as well at their DEBUT even going so far as another purple recolor that vittorio and Sable has received. We mentioned Lyra siblings, yet I'm still bothered that it took until their midchapter for them to recieve them and Gabriel not getting green rarities or an extra purple rarity at all.
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I don't blame BHVR remember when everyone was pushing Haddie cosmetics for the sake of I don't even know inclusivity? or maybe they just wanted their demands to be met who knows what Twitter people want BHVR adds a bunch no one buys them I haven't seen more than 2 haddies without their default costumes cosmetics don't appear out of thin air you need dev resources and it takes time and money to do why waste that on something no one's gonna use?
Now why they keep adding SM cosmetics is a true mystery
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I'm not a Sable fan at all, but anyone with eyes and sense will recognise that she's the money maker addition for this year. She was always going to be massively popular as was mikaeler.
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BHVR knows that characters like Sable and Vittorio sell a lot better than characters like Haddie.
Yes, it's not really 'fair', but it is what it is, and they're gonna focus on making skins that they know will sell. Same reason characters like Jeff, Jane and Adam rarely get new skins, few people play them and fewer spend money on them.
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If you think it's unfair to release with less cosmetics when other survivors release with more then more power to you and I am inclined to agree.
I disagree however that this is the result of subtle racism, at least not on BHVR's part. The POC in this game get some of best and equal treatment I've seen compared to tons of other games and that's even with having a high standard for this type of thing.
I am also one to think if they fix this issue by constantly giving quality skins to the character (which they have been) then what happens on release isn't really relevant as its temporary.
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Characters like jane would be played more if she was given better outfits instead of the same ones that just cover her up all the time.
Jeans leggings tank tops stuff like that. Give her a bikini skin and watch that sell
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I remember that. Creating these skins takes time and money. It’s pretty obvious why less played characters get fewer cosmetics than the more popular ones. Haddie is considered ugly by a lot of people and isn’t played much. Makes no sense to continue pushing out a lot of outfits for her.
New outfits didn’t even make a difference. You still don’t see her… or Gabriel. Sable is attractive and will definitely get A LOT of cosmetics (because of how popular she is). Just makes sense.
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BHVR is a company, and companies are going to do what makes money so that they can keep making stuff for us. If they keep releasing Feng Min skins, (or now Sable skins) and people keep buying them, but people aren't buying Haddie skins, you can't fault them for making more Feng Min skins. Vote with your wallet what you want.
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This is exactly it. Don’t get mad at a company giving its playerbase what they want. Why put time and resources into something that will give you $100 when you can put the same time and resources into something that will give you $1000. It’s basic business sense, every for-profit company does this.
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I would play Jane if they cover her up even more. Like a big tent would make me happy and play her.
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Yeah, it was quite clear that they needed a good-looking Survivor for that Chapter. I think the Unknown is alright, but nothing which really will be a fan-favorite. And the Perks are not that good or really bad for the Survivor. So the Survivor itself needs to drag in people.
Same with Vittorio back then - the Knight was so lala when it comes to gameplay. There was a good Perk with Nowhere to Hide but thats it. Then add a hot Survivor and the Chapter is better.
(In general, the last original Survivors were highly attractive)
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whaaat? bhvr make paid characters to sell... well?? NO WAY
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Idk what to even say to that….
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So what is the problem here? A bias in this regard is a good thing for them. Sable is an insanely popular survivor which means she is very marketable. The whole point of these characters is to make money for the company. Why should they do anything other than focus on what is the most appealing things for the best sales? If they make a new survivor and that survivor doesn't resonate with the players then why should they be given the same treatment as the more popular survivors?
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