What is the point in playing against this?
I can't be the only one who thinks the slowdown in this game has gotten out of hand?
Like I can understand stacking a couple of slowdowns on Freddy or something, because his chases are naturally going to last a while. But this kind of thing on a Wesker? Nurse? Blight? It's just silly.
These matches are SUCH a chore to get through. I'm so over these 30 minute matches.
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If the slow down gets an across the board nerf AGAIN, then gen times need to be increased again. Its really that simple
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The other issue is that there is literally no penalty of just tunneling off hook repeatedly and killing someone at 4-5 gens left, then repeating. In fact the optimal playstyle is to just find the weakest looper and do exactly that since pain resonance and pop are still at full strength.
There needs to be a better balancing mechanism against killers that play like that, and for killers that struggle with getting their first down before losing 3 generators.
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Why though? Are current generator times really such an issue?
Bear in mind that I play mostly weaker killers (Onryō, Pig, Hag, Twins etc.) and I never find myself needing more than 2 slowdown perks to do well. I usually use either Pain Res and Pop or Pain Res and Jolt and then either two tracking or chase perks. There's really no need for stacking four slowdowns, especially on a strong killer like Wesker.
Plus, most of the problematic generator speed stuff on the survivor side has been nerfed and then some.
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We keep getting forced into all running the same few perks on every killer as all the other ones get nerfed. Like I ran stbfl on multiple killers but since the nerf it's just not worth anymore to me. I had a few killers that I ran off meta perks with since it fit a unique play style for them..but those killers like Onryo got nerfed..so now it's back to just running the same perks as every other killer.
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I'm not sure. STBFL was definitely nerfed too harshly and should be looked at again. But killers still have loads of great non slowdown options. Spirit Fury, Enduring, Brutal Strength, Bamboozle etc. for chases. Ultimate Weapon, BBQ and Chili, Nowhere to Hide, etc. for tracking.
killers like Onryo got nerfed
Onryō is in the best spot she's ever been in IMO. Sure, she has a few rough edges (like survivors seeing TV auras in chase) but for the most part I'm finding her fun and well-balanced.
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Please keep talking about this. I don't know if I can handle running into another S or A tier killer stacking four slowdowns. It's ALWAYS the strongest killers who do this too. Spirits, Nurses, Blights, etc. Like how many advantages do you need to beat a solo queue team? If this game isn't ever going to implement strict matchmaking then they need to do something about these absurd builds that you stand no chance against.
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especially when 90% of the games two of the survivors are just crouched in a damn corner the whole game doing nothing.
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"I'm not sure. STBFL was definitely nerfed too harshly and should be looked at again"
STBFL prior to this patch was a very healthy perk. Using certain killers special attacks to me was creative use and making it more viable on certain killers which was a good thing. Also most special attacks are harder to hit than m1's so it would be riskier being forced to use it in bad situations to preserve stacks. RIsk/Reward balance. Now if I run it I would be forced to ignore one player..make it more likely I'm going to be tunneling someone..and I actively try to play fair.
"Spirit Fury, Enduring, Brutal Strength"
All bad imo and not worth the slots. Way better options. These are very "feel good" perks that to me rarely add as much value as people think they do.
"Bamboozle etc. for chases. Ultimate Weapon, BBQ and Chili"
These 3 are decent. A lot of the time still just don't carry as much impact as just more slow down though. However these are worth considering perks, so I agree with you on these.
"Nowhere to Hide, etc"
NWTH was a good perk before, but after the kick limit and with how strong Distortion is it's not as appealing. It was also typically stacked with other kick perks since you were already committing and many of those were gutted. I'd actually like you to elaborate on "ect" because I don't actually think there are many reasonably good perks to believe there's much ect to add.
Most the chase and information perks tend to be extremely undertuned. They have to understand that they are competing for a perk slot that can nearly add an entire extra gen worth of time..where most the chase and information perks just aren't an entire gen worth of value. At the end of the day DBD is all about time management and they typically just aren't saving you as much time. Gens are also just so fast in general that regardless of anything you're nearly always locked into at least 2 gen slow down perks minimum at base.
"Onryō is in the best spot she's ever been in IMO. Sure, she has a few rough edges (like survivors seeing TV auras in chase) but for the most part I'm finding her fun and well-balanced."
I absolutely disagree. She's in a very bad state with her current design and it's counter intuitive. Her best design was the global condemn version. Completely a unique experience as and against. Now she just plays like most other killers bar minor stuff..she lost her uniqueness.
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It doesn't even matter about finding the weakest looper. Even good survivors are sick to death of being tunneled and will just go next. I really don't blame them.
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BHVR: No, you can't touch player autonomy. If the killer wants to tunnel one survivor to death every game they should be able to. We'll nerf anti tunnel and make it either not stack or be useless by itself to maintain this.
Also BHVR: You want to work on a gen? Screw you, stand here afk and think about doing something else. When people complain enough that gen kick meta gets nerfed, we'll just force survivors to stand around in another form. All of these perks stack at all times and synergize with the strongest killer powers.
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The bigger problem is the power disparity between killers. These builds being basically required for Pig or Freddy, while as you said overwhelming as Wesker or Nurse is a huge problem for me and something that isn't easily fixed.
I still think at the very least there should be a cap on progression/regression speeds so that perks/items can be balanced on their own properly and not overwhelm the other side so easily. Unless there's something I'm missing, it seems like a decent idea for the pacing of a match.
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Devs can prevent certain slowdown perks from staking, they just haven’t. Why? Well, it’s probably because they feel it’s all in a good place, rn.
Regardless, certain builds absolutely do feel abusive when used by top tier players, and overly frustrating to face match after match.
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I think the healthiest way for the devs to address the issue is to apply a percentage penalty across all slowdowns when more than 2 are equipped. It could start at a 15% penalty to the slowdown values at 3 perks, and go up to a 25% penalty across the board when 4 are equipped.
4 slowdowns would still be greater than 1, but you'd get diminishing returns at a certain point. The goal would be to at least make it a question of value. But right now there is no question. Bring 4 slowdowns, tunnel 1 out, and then you still have 4 slowdowns in a 3v1.
It's bad gameplay and bad trial pacing.
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Well it just goes to show it dont matter how much you buff a killer people will still use the most op stuff regardless it killer is strong or not and their are no weak killers killer ate legit faster than survivours in 15 seconds tear 1 bloodlust so you are basically saying the power dont win me the case the killer weak no sir that call weak mind gaming and too lazey to actually put effor into playing if it was actually skill if killer is in tear 3 blood just it would only put us in deep wound since almost every pallet in the game is weak at 15% haste for killers
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BHVR are partially to blame for this situation with their recent unwarranted nerfs to STBFL and Sloppy (and soon Ultimate Weapon). They basically are inciting all killer players to run slowdown-centric builds which is boring for both sides.
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The devs don't seem to want to take away synergy of running perks together. Which is fine but they always end up just gutting the perks so they are only useful in that synergy.
Then the devs will remove perk synergy with powers no problem which imo only further cements every killer using the same handful of perks.
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The 50sec Gen basekit was because Ruin/Pop heavily nerfed. Now the new slowdown combo is more powerful than old Ruin/Pop, on top of that 50sec Gen basekit, on top of Medkit nerf, on top of self healing nerf.
But if nerfing the new combo should add another 50sec Gen basekit.
Okay...
Its not that individual slowdown perks should be nerfed. But stacking 3-4 of them should not be a thing.
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THIS^^ It's super easy to guarantee a 4k and just trust your perks to keep them slowed down enough to get your first 3 hook. If they try to go for a rescue you can just proxy. It's a brutal and unfun playstyle, but it works so well right now with these perks!
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LOL! nope. Going from 65 seconds, to 70, then to 80, now 90, AND with more brutal slowdown perks than we've ever had before? We definitely don't need to encourage survivors to hold m1 on generators any longer than they already are, just as we don't need to encourage killers to run horrible slowdown perks. There should be a middle ground where chase and teamwork are prioritized over gen-holding, or gen-rushing.
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Gens are literally slower than they've ever been and slowdown is stronger than anything except Eruption meta.
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Gen used to be 65sec ???
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I've been playing since pre resident evil chapters and I've never seen the game in such a fast state. It used to feel like you were trying to escape or kill, but now it feels more like a race on either side. Feels like most of my games are less than 8 minutes and somebody gets stomped. It's rarely a close match which are the most fun.
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Wake up man, gen times have already been increased and slowdown has never been so strong.
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Why not use the meta on every killer though? Nobody wants to risk losing because if you do you'll just get humiliated for it. So it makes sense that people are going to give themselves the best chances. If you don't, you have to try harder and people want to relax where possible.
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Why is it whenever new slowdown becomes meta its "Uh THIS time its REALLY out of hand" It was out of hand with Eruption Pop Pain Res you ask for an 8 gen regress limit killers start using gen block now its "No no now its out of hand again!" That other forum user was 100% right when he said gen block will now be complained about
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That's the problem this game has, and which will get even worse. 35 killers and every killer can use every perk. You will get perks which are fine on 34 killers, but way too strong on the other 1. On top of the very big casual majority who have difficulties in chase or being efficient on gens
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Personally I think there should be 30 second corrupt base kit and gen kicks increased slightly maybe to 7-8% then all slowdowns nerfed to thana, dying light levels of strength and on the survivor side any perks that speed up gens should only be a few percent also with toolboxes no longer increasing repair speed.
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I have to agree with @Blueberry on this one. Onryo is the worst spot she has ever been. I share same opinion in regard global condemn being best version for her & uniqueness aspect.
I suspect that when decisive strike gets buffed to 5 second stun and 80 second duration, I would not be surprised if the survivor meta turns into something like OTR+DS+Lithe/DH where survivor is just running 3 anti-tunnel perks vs killer running game-delay. in my view, the game is being reverted more and more into pre-6.1.0 patch with low perk variety.
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Mass slowdown is mandatory if you want to play without camping and tunneling against decent survivors, which is why I use them. Of course, most will still do those things because it is the optimal way to play.
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No you're just trying to find excuses to give buffs to killers which don't need to happen.
When the second ruin and cob were finally nerfed as well as when pop was weaker for a time gen times were increased. But when all these new arguably better gen slowdown perks like grim, pain res, new pop, eruption, you name it were added, where were you calling for gen speeds to be reverted back to 80?
Killer power creep on the next level.
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Yeah I think that might be where it’s heading. Ironically lol. We tried to pull away and change things and then just inadvertently go right back.
New Onryo is not only totally boring and lost all her uniqueness but she is ridiculously weak now. Like during global condemn version I actually felt like she was pretty strong and could compete against some decent teams. Now..she’s like C tier and I feel like that’s being very generous even. Totally unviable against remotely good players again. We went full circle back to original Onryo.
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for me, she feels like she is trending to be among top 5 worst killer in the game. I played vs Onryo and the killer got... 1 hook with highest condemn being 4 stacks. The idea of manually building up a mori was fun concept for a killer but this version is not very fun for me. Onryo is not anywhere on the developer update listing so it looks she is staying in this uninteresting state.
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Yeah it’s so sad. The global condemn version actually made me fall in love with her. The play style was so refreshing and viable at the same time. She became one of my main killers at the time. She’s now boring and so, so bad. I’m a little bitter as you can tell lol. I miss my fun killer.
Requiring hooks to lock in stacks makes so sense either (unless it was back to the unlimited lock in anyway). Right now by the time you lock in enough to condemn easily they’re already on third hook so at that point the mori is irrelevant rofl. All her condemn is doing now is saving you the walk to the hook on their 3rd hook nearly. Pointless.
Really destroys her condemn not removing tapes on hit as well. You feel like you have no meaningful way to stop them removing stacks unless you commit to every chase fully..as an m1 killer with no anti loop..enough said. Her manifest/demanifest is useless anti loop against anyone even remotely decent.
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Would your opinion be that 4 slow downs is still too overwhelming if the killer is not tunneling anyone out and playing fair?
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For everyone arguing for nerfing the slowdown with no compensation for killer, remember - the devs just showed the killrates being on the targeted level so that probably won't happen.
The best you can get is the Grim Embrace nerf which is probably justified
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I share your bitterness. I love playing her too. I am mildly hoping for a revert.
Requiring hooks to lock in stacks makes so sense either (unless it was back to the unlimited lock in anyway). Right now by the time you lock in enough to condemn easily they’re already on third hook so at that point the mori is irrelevant rofl. All her condemn is doing now is saving you the walk to the hook on their 3rd hook nearly. Pointless.
Pyramid head torment with extra steps is my summary of the mechanic. pointless indeed.
Really destroys her condemn not removing tapes on hit as well. You feel like you have no meaningful way to stop them removing stacks unless you commit to every chase fully..as an m1 killer with no anti loop..enough said. Her manifest/demanifest is useless anti loop against anyone even remotely decent.
Agree. Ineffective anti-loop, forced to commit to chases as weak killer, no real impact on attempting to make tapes less effective.
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In the first place, the decent survivors wouldn't let the killer easily tunneling or camp. If you do that, gen will be completed, right? Because they threatens killer.
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i think they need to limit the number of gen slowdown perks you can have to 2 and significantly buff weaker ones for greater variety of both overall perks and of slowdown perks used.
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Yup, and when kicking gens was introduced it could only regress at max 25% :)
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Better??? What color is the sky in your world? Pain Res, Pop, and Eruption are all shadows of their former selves. Pain Res is 4 times per game instead of infinite times. Pop is current gen progress instead of total gen progress. And eruption is a shadow of its former self across the board. And you stand there saying they are "new arguably better gen slowdown"?? Stop talking. Just....stop.
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I'm sorry this is a terrible take.
New pain res is still just as strong as old pain res, infact new pain res means you don't need to hook people many times as long as you hook someone once each you can camp them out and still get full value from the perk.
Old pop was 25% total progress of the gen. New pop is 30% current progress of the gen plus the additional 5% total progress from base kits. New pop is only worse if you're kicking gens with minimal progress, otherwise it's actually better.
Old eruption was completely broken so yes new eruption is not as strong as that, but it's definitely NOT a bad perk. Plus grim embrace dms all these new perks basically fill the roll of eruption except they're better.
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Saying new pain res is better then old pain res is being disingenuous at best, an outright lie at worst. Having survivors lose 25 percent progress 5 times will always lose to having survivors lose 15 percent progress 12 times. 100 percent lost progress is worse then 180 percent lost progress.
Moving on Pop mathematically isn't capable of being better then old pop total progress will always be more powerful then current progress. Hypothetically speaking, lets say a gen has exactly 25 percent progress. Old pop would drop it down to 0 percent progress, new pop would make it lose 7.5 percent from the pop, plus 5 percent more fron the kick itself, forcing the gen to lose exactly 12.5 percent. Not enough proof? Lets say that same gen had 75 percent progress? Old pop would drop it down to 50 percent, while new pop would drop it down by 22.5 percent, plus an extra 5 from the kick, bring it down in total by 25.5 percent. Thats more then old pop......until you realize that for new pop to be stronger then old pop, the gen must be at 75 percent finished or higher. Anything from 74 and below, old pop is stronger. Which mean, by default, old pop was stronger then new pop 74 percent of the time.
Combine both of these examples with Eruption, Call of Brine, and Overcharge being completely gutted, and I think I proved beyond a doubt that you were wrong about "new arguably better gen slowdown perks like grim, pain res, new pop, eruption"
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Nah just nerf tunneling so killers can actually get good at the game.
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Just because its a shadow of its former self it doesn't mean it doesn't need to be looked at. Remember when killers advocated for dh to be nerfed time and time after time again 🤣
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You're assuming that games actually get 12 hooks which is very rare, often people die on first or second hook. The last 2 to 3 are negligable anyway because everyone is already dead. In most scenarios new painres is better because it does more damage early on and is alot more reliable.
Your maths is wrong in that 75% calculation because you didn't properly add the 5% base regression, so pop applies 30% of current progress deletion PLUS you get 5% more from that so it'd be over 27.5%. Most of the time your actually popping gens over 60% anyway so in those situations pop is either equal or stronger. When are you actually popping a gen with 15% progress that actually matters? This means new pop does more damage when you most need it.
You mentioned some perks that were nerfed and i mentioned some perks that were massively buffed but the gen speed nerfs happened before all of these perks were introdcued when there were alot less slowdowns in general, so my point is why would gen speeds need to be nerfed again considering removing some of these slowdowns would only return us to a pre CoB era with 90 second gens, not making slowdowns worse than they were when gens were nerfed.
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I did properly calculate the the math, as behavior as confirmed that the 5% from kicking a gen is given AFTER progress from the gen is lost from the perk itself. It goes Perk regression, THEN kick regression, not vice versa
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