The New Killer Has Resulted In A Lot Of Transphobia :(
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I'm more talking about ppl insisting that a cosmetic allows bad behavior, resulting in the cosmetic being removed.
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Edited to remove quote since I noticed a mod deleted what they said, but I still stand by what I said:
Nah - you're wrong and it's not the same thing. One (charms) is used to uplift people and to make them feel like they belong. And those not part of the community can just be like "cool, happy for you". The other is using a mix match of images to create something that is used to make fun of and harm a community of people. Making them feel unwanted and mocked.
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Yeah but same kinda applied to all the pride/LGBTQ+ charms and those were not removed..
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I was told that at the time too. But looking into it prior to the faces being removed, I didn't see any difference between Claud's face and the others. Bubba's eyes were the same color and tone across the board.
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Can’t find a good picture of it but have seen it being used then.
well the fact that it was licensed and removed because both parties agreed to it after it was used as a tool for racism should already be enough to distinguish both topics. And even then Bubba also has the other outfits that haven’t been removed
Unknown is original, and therefor more comparable to pride charms - which people also tried to get removed because of harrassement accusations etc.
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I was moreso referring to the lack of communication between the VA and BHVR. They took the job not knowing what the character was, and wouldn’t have if they did.
Don’t get me wrong, they did a fantastic job, but I also can’t help but feel like the VA got slighty shafted (not that, the word escapes me atm).
Personally, I’d hate for the cosmetics to disappear ala Leatherface. I’d give it a week or two until we really start asking for measures, though. It may just be a bizarre “hype”.
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The license owner did get involved but remember it took years for it to get to that point. You can go back to the old Steam forums and find post about it. All it will take is some activist to pick this up and start a campaign against BHVR. At that point it's a direct comparison.
The fact Unknown is original makes it easier for BHVR to act hastily. They don't have to worry about contract violation or upsetting the license holder.
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It's more the asymmetrical playerbase as a whole. It doesn't matter if the player is black, white, Asian, etc a character being black is enough for the racists to let their hate out. There was even a thread in the reddit for TCM where someone posted that people using racial slurs should be banned but some people were actually disagreeing and saying people should toughen up, it's just a video game, etc and all the other bs arguments used when people talk about in-game harassment and attacks. Gun stated quite definitively that racial slurs have no place in their game but how do you prove a racial slur with voice chat and no recording?
It's horrible that the Unknown is being used like this. It also higlights the stupidity of the transphobes as the Unknown is genderless and may not even have the capacity to understand gender in lore.
I don't think BHVR saw this happening at all because people tend to assume people think like they themselves do so but unfortunately it did happen.
The best thing to do is to just outright lifetime ban anyone being transphobic, homophobic or bigoted. That's why I wish the reporting system would be improved so it's easier to get players like that banned. Dbd as a whole would be greatly improved if transphobes and racists were just shunted out of the entire community instead of removing cosmetics. Get rid of the problem instead of brushing it under a carpet so nobody sees it.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
Googled it and never found anything remotely close to what you describe.
I'm not really getting what the issue is now. Somebody got harassed (apparently) and now the problem is you can have a head that looks male with a crop top and skirt on a character model that doesn't even remotely bare any resemblance to a human being.
I guess the story and lore is completely irrelevant and everything should just be banned because of a few bad eggs.
Like where does it stop??? If someone is truly transphobic/homophobic etc etc they could just as easily target one particular person who is wearing a flag or playing David. Should we also remove those from the game so it doesn't happen?
Report them and move on. If it's that bad they will get banned.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
I understand your point you are making. Hateful people will be hateful. A cosmetic doesn't change that type of person's behavor. Nor does removing it.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
After seeing the VA's experience about this, I'm back on the side of linking the cosmetics. This is why we can't have nice things.
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And the thing is people are not seeing it for what it is. They say "well what about charms. What about non-white characters. What about David. Should we remove them too because they could be used for racist and homophobic reasons???". Like that's not the point. The point is the Unknown is not even human. The unknown is not a trans person.
However, people can use the cosmetic mix match to create a caricature of a trans woman that is used by transphobic people (go to my previous post for examples). It is used to target people of a community to make them feel unwanted and to make them look like a freak. If BHVR had someone on their team that is in charge of looking out for things like this before they release cosmetics, characters, etc - then this whole thing could have been avoided by making it a linked cosmetic. I don't think it the outfit should be removed - but I don't think it should be used in a way that can target and create a hostile environment for anyone.
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How would they go about linking it for the ppl who didn't buy all 3 pieces? Do those ppl just get gifted the rest of the set?
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I know you have the best of intentions but even implying that a hideous monster with human clothes and hair stretched on it is somehow even a caricature of a real group of people, is both not helping and insulting to even say if you ask me
Just because the bad actors are 'claiming' it doesn't mean you have to legitimise it. What you should be saying is it's nonsensical.
I don't think some of you realise what you're saying lol
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Refund the cells or shards back to them - which they can do because the Wraith monster weapon was causing me motion sickness when he was cloaked because of how big it was. So they took the cosmetic away but refunded me the cells used to buy it. Or gift them the rest, but I don't see them doing that.
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@jayoshi I'll avoid the direct reply because mods may edit out the links.
Those look like political cartoons which historically look over exaggerated regardless of the subject matter. Like George Bush with a dimwit face or Obama with big ears. The style is very old school back of the newspaper type.
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Not when it has always been used that way by transphobic people. It would be easy to just say "It's nonsensical!" and then move on. I'm not saying that is what trans women look like, I'm saying that is what transphobic people think trans people look like and have been using that for years. Again, go back a few of my posts where I show examples. Please don't twist my words and what I'm trying to say. I don't think you realize what some people are saying. It would be like telling some that black face is nonsensical and people should get over it even though it has been used in the United States for years to make fun of a community.
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This sucks majorly. She did such a good job.
The Unknown is probably my favorite original killer they've ever made, but knowing that its existence makes its actress uncomfortable puts a damper on my enjoyment a bit.
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I think it's worth mentioning that an Unknown wearing the cheerleader outfit and tunneling someone with a pride flag does not mean they're being transphobic. When the whole Leatherface masks drama happened, a video talking about the issue was posted, and some content creators claimed that the Bubba was being racist because they tunneled a Claudette. In reality, a lot of killers tunnel regardless of the survivor. It's more likely that the killer just wanted to tunnel someone (a common occurrence in DBD) rather than they are being racist/transphobic. Of course, if someone has a transphobic name or says something transphobic in the post-game chat, then yeah, they should get banned. But calling for the ban hammer on whoever runs that outfit and tunnels someone is not the way to go, especially when the pride charms are so unnoticeable on the survivors that it's almost impossible to tell what they have equipped.
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No they were very obviously doing that to be racist. It didn't even need to be Claudette specifically, if it was a black twitch streamer and the killer could check their twitch stream, and then they put on the Claudette mask and tunneled/camped them, that's not an accident. The survivor they were playing was irrelevant, iirc one of the clips shown as an example the survivor was playing Jeff.
Likewise if the killer is mixing the male/female Unknown cosmetics and harassing people wearing the trans pride flag charm or whose Steam profile indicates they are trans, that is not an accident.
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Since this game is global I cannot expect everyone to understand. But freedom of expression exists here. Doesn't mean you cannot be upset about it or think its wrong. I'm sure the example you give would be hurtful to those deplicted. But it comes both ways but I don't want to bring politics into a game forum.
To your point, on the Internet you can find every opinion ever thought about in one form or another. Extremes from any line of thought. Whither something exists or not is dependent on how much time you want to spend looking into the abyss.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
I do. Caricature is creating a image of someone using exaggerated features that are seen as comical and grotesque.
Example:
That image has grotesque features of a human male head with a human body wearing feminine clothing.
The person who did the female voice lines is a trans woman and she said if she knew it could be used the way that it has been used by some players, she would have never taken the job. Just because this doesn't affect you or your way of life, doesn't mean it doesn't affect others.
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You must be trolling right, there's no way you genuinely believe what you wrote in this post
If you believe that image you posted is in any way is a caricature of a real person, I don't really know what to say.
Also for someone concerned about "how this is affecting others" you sure seem to not care that you're going around calling the image you posted a caricature of a real life group of people. You're doing more harm than good you know.
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if the problem is the mixing of the skins then they sadly need to link them as sets. i think the cheerleader skin itself is no problem
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If there is any cosmetic that directly affects a certain group of people to make them feel mocked or unwanted in a different country that doesn't apply to my culture or country, I support it not being in the game. Again these cosmetics shouldn't be removed, they should be linked. I think I'm done with this topic. I've said what I had to say and all I can do is hope BHVR does something about it if they also see a problem with it. It's not up to me or anyone else that isn't a developer. I still stand by everything I said. Good luck in the fog, guys. Glad we could keep it civil at least.
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That's what I have been saying
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You're talking about real life situations and trying to compare them to a game. 2 men getting married and your dog comparison is completely different than removing pixels because someone got offended by some scumbags in a game that is riddled with toxicity.
Those pictures don't share any resemblance to what The Unknown looks like at all. You suggested the image you posted looks similar to what you would find from a simple Google search of transphobic images. Those images may be in bad taste, but they certainly don't depict trans people as horrible deformed monsters. You choose to make that connection, doesn't mean everyone else should.
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I'm missing what's so obvious about it, I see Killers tunneling and camping almost every other match, it's just an expected thing to happen at this point.
But again, if an Unknown with the cheerleader outfit tunnels someone with a pride flag but doesn't say anything transphobic in the post-game chat, how do you know they were being transphobic? Just because they tunneled? And should they get banned for that?
Now, what if you're using the cheerleader skin and the four survivors are a SWF of trans gamers who are streaming and are clearly trans? Should the Unknown be scared of tunneling because they could get flagged as transphobic?
My point is, the Unknown cosmetics are really cool, so a lot of people will use them. But calling someone transphobic for tunneling with them without them showing clear signs of transphobia is uncalled for. Let's just stick to banning people who actually display transphobic behaviour.
I run the Cheerleader outfit because I had enough shards to buy it and it looks really creepy. Sometimes I switch the head or weapon just to change the look a bit. I'm just finding out that I could've been called transphobic without even knowing if one of the survivors I killed/mori'd happened to be trans (which again, it's almost impossible to tell by charms alone because they're extremely small).
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I mean, this is kind of horror. I can think of some monsters who trick victims by using different voices. Male, female, boys, girls. Dress in ways to fool victims into coming closer, etc. I do not believe BHVR has any nefarious intent here. This may be a product of the time we live in.
I do see the Trans angle some are saying but that might of been a mistake to make. I know that there's a lot of people that want that to happen but it being a killer puts it in a negative light from the outright. If anything, survivor characters would be the focus.
The killers in this game are in the of the day monsters. Human or not so.
It's unfortunately the voice actress said that because now it will be used to destroy the work even though the work isn't the problem.
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I'm sorry I'm missing the point of this thread? Are we saying the cosmetics are transphobic or that the people are mixing them in such a way they think parodies trans people to then harass people with trans charms?
Because the former I disagree with that but the latter is unfortunate and anyone who sees this should report those people with evidence and get them out of here.
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While I agree what you stated, the OP was messaged after the match. The action of tunneling and camping within itself should not be used as the standard, as you stated.
Now, the post after the match and on their profile is that line being crossed and OP should of reported it not only to BHVR but Steam as well.
The issue with this kind of topic is it will be used later to justify action that benefits no one in the end.
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People are mixing Unknown's new cosmetics to construct recreations of harmful stereotypes of trans people to then bully those players when they find them in matches. I'm not sure when you joined DBD, but if you remember the Bface Bubba situation, it's like that again.
The cosmetics themselves aren't inherently transphobic or anything, it's just the way they're being used.
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To those questioning the seriousness of this and whether action should be taken I have a different perspective. Transsexuals are the people who have the most experience with this and we should trust their judgment. There have already been people using throwaway accounts to mock and insult trans people in this thread and the only reason the bigots aren't seen more is because the mods removed them quickly (as in under five minutes so it was kind of a blink and you'd miss it). That alone should speak to the hate that transsexuals unfortunately have to deal with and people should acknowledge their experiences.
If you're in a minority group and you're not taking what was stated as a serious concern then you would be doing what was most likely done to you at one point when you voice a concern and somebody says 'I don't see that', or 'maybe you should have done this instead', or 'you're overreacting' etc.
If you belong to just majority groups and you don't take this seriously then you should consider that nobody can speak to what somebody else experienced so it's better to listen and acknowledge their experience is different from yours.
I'm just mentioning this because I see some posts implying or stating 'well maybe that wasn't what happened' but I think the people who do experience hateful and bigoted comments are much better suited to say what actually did happen than anyone else as they were the ones to experience it.
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I mean it's just a silly little noodle monster in a cheerleader outfit, I don't see how it relates to trans people. The people using it for that are really stretching for the association IMO, those people should ofc be reported and banned but I don't think the cosmetics themselves are problematic.
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Once upon a time, Jeryl mains existed. And they suffered tons of nasty abuse and bigotry. Not really surprised tbh.
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If it's any consolation, she's released another statement asking that people stop blowing it as out of proportion as it was, bhvr have been incredibly supportive and the issue lies more with the community than the devs. The skins aren't the issue and never have been, just the lack of communication regarding the model as she feels like others would have been more suited (even though she absolutely killed it, and I'm glad she's making more Unknown references through her account now).
What's done is done, and if she's anything like me I'd say she'd prefer people enjoy her work to the fullest rather than not enjoy it as much because of this situation. Obviously I don't and can't speak for her, but I wouldn't let this stop you from enjoying Unknown as much as you want to.
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Good to hear BHVR is doing their part. I wouldn't mind the skins being linked to prevent community shittiness but we'll see.
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People will find anything to hate on because they’re so miserable inside. Best solution is to ignore their existence.
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This feels like the dialogue of a Scooby Doo character that's toooootally not the villain of the episode.
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This is heartbreaking to hear. It's disgusting that some hateful people have twisted a time that should be fun for every player, the release of a new chapter, into an opportunity to attack others.
I'll be checking all of my survivors and killers to make sure they are wearing the Progress Flag charm. The only way forward is to stand together and report this behavior.
Everyone should feel welcomed in the DBD community. There's no room for hate.
@Iron_Cutlass, thank you for sharing this and spreading awareness. Now, I'll try to do my part to help.
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People have been targeted over their playernames, something in their profile or in case of streamers for their appearance.
taking away charms will not stop bigots and acting like the charms are the cause of it is stupid.
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Why exactly are we getting mad at the people being targeted and not the people targeting others? This is literally just a fancy form of victim blaming, is it not?
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correlation is not causation (I wish I could bold that). The outfit should stay. Ban the people making the comments.
I am not supporting their behavior (it's terrible) but this is a fact.
Also one must be very aware of how much self disclosure one chooses to give online. Be very careful with this...
I give little to no self disclosure, people don't need to know who I really am so they can't hit on me/stalk me, I stay as anon as possible ESPECIALLY in an online pvp game. It's the sad reality of things.
We can't control others, I'd rather keep my sanity and not disclose who I really am, it's not worth it to me. They can leave me comments or talk about me randomly online outside the game, and approach me irl asking for photos/whatever, but no way is anyone knowing who I really am on dbd. Not worth it.
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Reporting this stuff does literally nothing.
Someone was being homophobic in a match around a month ago, nothings been told to me that action was taken. I have taken the time to take videos of people doing stuff provided it to bhvr, still nothing.
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Linking/removing the sets isn't the solution, banning for harrassment is. Many killers have bought the sets not for malice but because they want to be a monster entity that mimics a creepy, adorable old lady. Or because they want to use gardening sheers with the default as it makes for a sick weapon. Besides the kinds of people to do this would do so regardless, surely it is better to be stricter with the reporting system to actually prevent them from from doing so in future.
Alternatively could they not introduce partial linked sets where the weapon is not included in the link.
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A couple of clarifications here:
- Video evidence is not required for something that is being said in the chat, the in-game reporting is the only required step
- Only permanent bans appear on player's Steam profiles for example, so if action is taken and it's a temporary ban, there will be no evidence of it on their profile.
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