Garden of Joy (Withered Isle)
We'd like to know what you think about the Garden of Joy map, part of the Withered Isle realm. Please leave any feedback you have concerning this map as a comment on this thread. Your feedback can be as brief or detailed as you'd like!
Garden of Joy (Withered Isle) 345 votes
Comments
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The main building is still a house of pain. Other than that it's pretty ok.
6 -
Main building feels stronger after the rework and the hitboxes are horrible it's gross to play huntress in this you barely can snipe on long range
16 -
I don't understand why BHVR announced the map was getting changes... and then did the bare minimum effort, to make as few changes as possible.
24 -
Rework did pretty much nothing to the horrible window in main, pallet spread is pretty fine but the size is way too much. I think those are the main 2 problems that need to be fixed and it won't be so survivor sided.
5 -
Oh, Garden of Joy, what a map!! Has everything a map should NOT have. Is way too big, the main building and its "funny" windows, terrible hitboxes (sometimes) and super safe loops. Please do something with this map, probably the worst map for killers, super unfunny and frustrating to play.
24 -
Truly awful Killer experience
- So many, many strong structures. Shack in one corner, car park in the other corner, a jungle gym that sometimes has a pallet or window line up with the strong main building window in the other corner. An obscene amount of safe filler tiles that are interconnected.
- Main building is an absolute sin. Several strong windows, a god pallet, and connects to the aforementioned strong fillers.
I would like the pallets to be less interconnected. Main building windows need to be fixed.
18 -
It's an absolutely terrible map for killers. There was a rework on it and I literally, LITERALLY, don't see a single difference. Main building still has god windows, the map is huge with jungle gyms and decent loops all around. It would be better if it was a tad bit smaller and/or something was done to the window in main building. Also, I feel like you guys have been forgetting about breakable walls with the recent maps. It's a feature that's being forgotten a lot on map design and it's a shame. It's an interesting mechanic.
3 -
second worst map after *bad*ham.
7 -
Can y'all balance a map properly? You changed little to nothing with the rework
2 -
There's a good reason that bad survivors used to send killers to this map constantly. The main building is extremely strong and annoying to play. It's practically impossible to defend main gen and it has the potential for an infinite loop, as well as an extremely strong dining room window->pallet loop. On top of one of the worst main buildings in the game, the rest of the map is extremely strong. Shack side is just shack chained into strong fillers chained into strong maze tiles, chained into car park.
When I play this, it's usually just try to clear either shack side or main side and then hard commit to that area because there are far too many resources for survivors to get rid of all of them. It's a really unpleasant to play map that just forces you to play unfun strategies to overcome the strengths. There's also an extremely powerful hook in main building with only a single way to get up (main stairs) that is ridiculously easy to camp.
For some reason there also aren't any lockers in the middle of the map. At all.
Honestly, I wouldn't complain if someone just randomly shuffled the entire map a few times because I feel almost anything else is better.
3 -
Still a very survivor sided map even after the rework, it is slightly better than it used to be but not by much. Map is too big, too many safe loops, main building is still very strong. The dining room window is slightly weaker now since the ramp on the right side of the building (next to the pallet) was moved further away but it's still a time-waster and overall the building is still really good for survivor.
Upstairs building hook is way too easy for the killer to defend if they get someone up there since there's only one way upstairs.
Maybe this is just a me issue but I also get stuck a lot (on both survivor and killer) on the little guardrails at certain loops.
2 -
This map is so horrible for killer, and I think the rework made it worse, the main building is absolutely Overpowered as hell with that window in the dining room, the tiles a lot of them are really good and they still chain together, and that pallet on the side patio is still a god pallet, what an awful awful map
0 -
Garden of Joy is one of the most survivor favored maps and while the rework did some good changes, they were mostly subtle and didnt tackle the core issues of the map; unfourtunately there were also some very bad changes in the rework regarding the mazetiles. The good changes in the rework consisted of cleaning up clutter all around the map, including the shack which counted with some very intrusive objects that blocked killer powers; as well as nerfing most filler loops which stood out for being too safe and numerous.
The size of the map is too large and therefore the generator spread is awkward (specially with certain pairs of generators in the road that arose after the rework). The main building generator is hard to patrol which compliments with the size of the map. Main building counts with a very strong fixed window supported by a very strong fixed pallet; half the times there is a window at the front that is also incredibly problematic. The hook upstairs is very strong to defend since there is only one staircase to go up.
The parking lot landmark is fixed & specially powerful given its pallet & window with no mindgame potential and the fact it is connected to a mazetile that could perfectly create a set up with it. The big tree landmark, on the other hand, is rather inconsistent and doesn't always spawn its pallet.
Similar to Eyrie of Crows, the fog in this map can become troublesome when enhanced by offerings. The bushes all around the map count with roots that due to their hue can resemble scratchmarks and confuse killer players.
The mazetiles in Garden of Joy are special, they use not one but two styles of walls. The main building side gets thin, long and tall fences that are particularly easy to see through (the red stain is very noticeable through the wall), where as the shack side gets shorter, thicker walls of average length that the survivor can potentially see over to keep track of the killer. Both styles allow the survivors to potentially prevent mindgames.
In shack side there is a certain mazetile (commonly known as "variant gym" or "unique gym") that is missing its window on one of the two variations. This is not an isolated case since it all started with a bug in the Yamaoka Estate on the very same type of mazetile and variation missing the window. This bugged mazetile was used as base for its iteration in Eyrie of Crows, Garden of Joy and The Shattered Square. The bug got fixed in Yamaoka Estate, Eyrie of Crows and even in the main building side of Garden of Joy, yet it still persists on the shack side of the map (and in Shattered Square). The missing window creates a discrepancy in strength, it is not fun for the survivor and the tile itself was originally designed with a pallet and a window in mind.
From the 4 mazetile types in shack side and the 4 mazetile types in main building side, the rework changed 2 in shack side and 1 in main building side, not a single one being positive. The commonly known "labyrinth gym" or "maze gym" (also found in Ormond and Yamaoka Estate) got replaced in both sides and the pioneer and best iteration of the "impostor gym" (a mazetile that resembles a better known mazetile while introducing key differences) got replaced in shack side.
One of the 2 new types in shack side is a "pallet gym" that can have the pallet at either end of the loop (and it is specially troublesome because the survivor is immune to mindgames from any tall killer since they are seen over the walls). The other new type hardly resembles the most brand new mazetile from the Dvarka Deepwood realm and it is particularly unsafe, it is even missing its pallet on one of the two variations when the window is not even strong. Both new tiles are unfun for either one or both roles.
The new mazetile in main building side is the commonly known as "four lane" yet while the mazetile is usually not very strong by default (usually shines when the survivor has a solid headstart), it is specially awful in Garden of Joy, one variation is missing the window and therefore only having the pallet and then the other is straight up missing both the pallet and the window. Mazetiles are a beacon of predictable safety for the survivors and loops that the killer can mindgame, having these erratically weak mazetiles is not good design.
Garden of Joy should become smaller & main building needs adjustments on the two outstanding windows. The parking lot should at the very least not be next to a mazetile; the big tree landmark could become consistent with its pallet generation. The hue of the roots and the fog should be adjusted.
The mazetiles must remain as 4, ideally the 3 new types get reverted or redesigned; the missing window on the "variant gym" needs to get patched.
Post edited by AMGC on5 -
Very survivor sided, the main building is fairly easily accessible and provides some of the strongest windows in the game that can hardly be outplayed. Arguably one of the if not the strongest main building in the entire game.
And as if that was not already enough the hitboxes of bushes and so on barely match with the visuals, making it so you get stuck on everything.
It is one of those maps you get send to as killer just to make you feel miserable.
To fix this is fairly simple though, get rid of the weird hitboxes and rebalanced the main building.
On a side note I don't know if this is intended or not but the map sometimes spawns a jungle gym without a window, which often results in a lost health state, because why on earth would the window just be missing for no reason? Soooo if this is indeed intended, do you mind explaining why?
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Every time I get this map I feel like who wins is entirely up to if the survivors can play smart and work together or not (or if one of them happens to be a loop god, because then Killer just has zero hope). I've had hell games here, I've had super easy 4-Ks here.
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I think the rework on Garden of Joy did nothing to make it more fun but actually less fun. The main house is still miserable but easier for a group of survivors to split up and cause misery for most killers. However, killers like Trapper and Skull merchant can easily make the match go thirty minutes with the bare minimum of effort.
0 -
Garden of Joy, Haddonfield and Badham. The trifecta of stupid god windows and extreme survivor sided nonsense. Once taught even the most beginner of survivors can waste a lot of the killers time with main building. Person who designed this map (not the artistic side, it's not awful there but not one of my favorites but this actually is subjective) and person who reworked it should never work on another map again.
Of all maps that are in dire need of an extremely obvious change this is the one.
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Still survivor sided but definitely better since rework. Main has too strong buildings and half of upstairs is pretty much a survivor safe zone as killer wastes too much time there.
atmosphere and details are great here, initially I wasn’t a fan of the outside/‚walls‘ but it does work for this map and gives the realm something special. Also good that it isn’t the only map in this realm anymore!
2 -
This is a map where you are limited as to where you can chase at the start of the match. You don't ever wanna go shack first off, and main is just insanely safe for Survivors.
Forget about how the match plays out after that. You have your time wasted at every tile you go to and the gens are always so spaced out which makes strategic defences near impossible.
Why the building has so much vaults and a god pallet is beyond me. What happened to blocking off the god window from being linked to the god pallet?
This map is ridiculously Survivor sided.
0 -
For the love of god please nerf the kitchen window.
0 -
I think we don't have to talk about this one. stupidly OP main building. Insane setups between Shack and Parking Lot. Huge Deadzones on the left side of main.
0 -
The map is so terrible to play as survivor since the rework.
Most times the maze tiles spawn without a window, which makes this map terrible to play. Also the ones, which have a window have such a terrible one and the maze tiles are in general so bad!
I would much more prefer nerfing the main building and returning the rest of the map.
The whole map is so rng dependent, which is a big problem of most maps.
After two pallet drops the map is a big deadzone outside of main. It‘s not fun to constantly getting farmed just by bad map design and as survivor you have no perks like bambozele, who do the opposite to counter bad map design.
3 -
What's great about Withered Isle:
- Pretty <3
- Greenhouse corner of the map is good. Do not change this corner.
What's bad about Wither Isle:
- Main building is absolutely massive and only ever has one generator that is almost always accompanied by a strong window that is directly next to strong loops. It is so outrageously easy to loop in main building that survivors bolt for it if you even consider approaching central generators.
- The area in front of main building can have a strong pallet or two but once broken it creates a massive deadzone.
Suggested changes:
- Add entrances and exits that allow the killer to cut off survivors that bolt for the strong windows in the main building.
- Add a second generator to main building after shrinking the map a little more.
- Central area needs a line of sight blocker and an extra pallet to create less dead zones for both sides.
- Outskirts of the map need to be closer together and the jungle gyms need to be weakened.
- The car loop on the corner opposite the killer shack and main building is a little too strong for killers that lack chase powers. Move the window closer to the pallet so survivors will have to break it faster or add a wall to mindgame with.
0 -
The Map needs to be Reworked by name and overall map design to the "Garden of Pain" instead... This map has gone through several Reworked and is still survivors sided, especially the main house and the many infinite windows and pallets that is connected next to each other, making it impossible for any Killer's, especially m1 average killers impossible to win chase with. Trying to defend the generator in that house of pain, is pretty much not worth defending at all. Especially with how big this map is.
This map needs to be gutted down in map size, the house needs a brand new Rework, especially with Breakable Walls that actually helps the killer out. Also, there are too many weird small obstacles in the map (little bush) that have huge hit box's, which makes them unforgiving for killers that have line of sight or mobility like blight, hillbilly, Huntress, etc. And they end up accidentally bump into when they shouldn't. Too many safe pallets spawns and strong windows, there needs to be some deadzones or cut some safe and make them unsafe.
0 -
Aside from the outstanding issues with windows and design of the main building it should be noted that the lighting of the main building is completely broken on older generation consoles (ps4 for myself) and does not properly darken the stairwell or surrounding rooms leaving them inconsistent with other game versions
0 -
15+ pallets chained together, S tier main building for Survivors, huge time waster trying to chase someone competent in that house of horror and lot of stuff everywhere on allready above avarage sized map. Awfull map.
0 -
There is wayyyy too many fillers, on top of main being way too strong with fillers or usual tiles way too close to the back exits and back window. I'd like it if some of the windows were blocked off in main, and less fillers since theres a pallet 5 feet from another in most cases.
0 -
Main building is terrible. Everything south of the main building is terrible. And the bushes are terrible.
0 -
I would love to see who voted this was a killer sided map
3 -
On Garden of Joy when playing as Killer almost all Killer powers get stuck on those bushes and as a survivor it's kinda bland... The main building had very strong windows for survivors. Apart from that this map is nothing special. It's pretty "meh".
0 -
Garden of Pain needs a complete rework, with better gen placement with nerfed loops and pallets, and not only that... But PLEASE get rid of the poopy-brown filter and replace it with Greenville Square's filter, as it would look more aesthetically pleasing. Repurpose it, if you have to; the fact it's in the same realm as Greenville Square is clashing. Make Greenvile its own official realm. Make Haddie the third BFF of Mikaela's group, I don't care. Just make the Garden of Joy play AND LOOK better, please. Thank you. 🙏
0 -
guaranteed 2 god windows in main building occasionally with a god pallet. the whole map chains to everything else, is huge, and has 2 shacks.
1 -
The window in the back of main is pretty much a pseudo-infinite. The front of main is the average american front yard, EMPTY. And the shack side of the map is one giant jungle gym with bushes.
0 -
It’s too big, the main building has too many strong windows and a god pallet, and the car loop on the right corner of the map is really strong, fix these 3 things and the map wouldn’t be that bad, but as of rn it’s miserable for killer most of the time
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Main building is awful. The window and pallet that always spawn at MB are way too safe and strong. The window also goes straight in to a maze tile too. On top of that there can sometimes spawn window at the front of MB and one on the back left of MB. With all 3 windows together if shift teched correctly, it can be made in to a literal infinite. The other big issue is the bushes. Survivors can for some reason hug them way tighter than killers, making a bush with no pallet or window a huge time sink. On top of that any killers whose power can collide in to stuff (chainsaw killers, Wesker, huntress, blight, etc) get hard countered by these bushes.
0 -
Main building is essentially a mansion of pain, and just generally very unfun for most killers. Other than that, the map has alot of bushy areas that make stealthing as a survivor very easy and can make for boring matches against survivors constantly hiding in a corner, but the main problem with this map is the main building by far
0 -
The single worst map in the game to play on.
This map is obscenely large, has a giant main building with extremely powerful vaults that waste a lot of time without wasting any resources, has strong tiles that connect decently closely, the single safest gen in DBD on the top floor of the main building, and the rework addressed absolutely none of these issues.
The rework decided that to make the map balanced, it would add a disgustingly close 3 gen for the killer to use. And then we got an anti 3 gen system implemented, sending REALLY mixed messages about how BHVR thinks maps are supposed to be balanced.
Garden of Joy needs an ACTUAL overhaul. Not the "announce a rework and then just give up" that we got.
4 -
2 breakable walls in main and called it a day 😂
3 -
I'm truly fascinated by the people saying this one is killer sided.
This map is visually awesome, and I love the variety of tiles and unique areas. It feels better to play on since it was reworked. That said, this map is still very painful as killer. As others have said, the main building is a huge problem. Even inexperienced survivors can do well on this map, but if you get a good survivor team, prepare to be clowned on.
1 -
The rework this map received was lackluster, way too minimalistic for such a strongly problematic map.
Original Garden of Joy had:
- lots of pallets that were often safe, perfectly aligned and really close to each other, to the point that it looked like a map from early 2017;
- a lot of small random clutter that got you stuck when you least expected it, specially the killer, who often couldn't see the low clutter right at their feet with the first person view;
- a ridiculously strong main building with two pallets (one of them being a god pallet) and up to four god windows, 2 being dropdowns and 2 followed by no slowdown that could spawn close to each other, one of them being connected to both the god-pallet and a jungle-gym/TL loop.
And the rework made it better by... removing the small clutter scattered around and moderately decreasing the number of pallets. I mean, that is something, but not enough to fix the map, specially with how strong the main building still is. Hell, the building is arguably stronger than before: because of that breakable wall that changed placement in the second floor, if you hear or see a survivor's aura hiding or healing in the long room with the window, it will take longer for you to get there because of the wall, giving them more time to vault and get more of a headstart.
Also, some pallet sequences are just sligthly weaker. There used to be two pallets back to back right at the entrance of the jungle gym near the greenhouse. Now there's one near the entrance and another one on the OTHER side of the jungle gym... which means there are still two pallets in a row, just not in the verge of kissing each other like before.
0 -
I feel like I would have a lot less issue with this map if it weren't for the the dining room window. A super safe window leading right into both a jungle gym and a really safe pallet still at main building is absolutely insane.
1
