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New Invocation WAY too weak?
So I was wondering if other people have had the same experience? I was pretty excited about trying it out but so far every time I play it I just feel like I am completely throwing for my team, it feels bad honestly. You also don't really get rewarded points for it, even though it is extremely time consuming, I finished a match where I actually completed the invocation, with 5 gens up, which should technically be the equivalent of getting 10 (permanent unregressable) x5 = 50 points total on gen repair basically and I only got 3,800 points in my lobby when my match ended making it feel & look like I did completely nothing... which is kind of how invocation always feels to be honest..
- I don't really think the positive benefits outweigh the fact that you are broken and injured for the rest of the match after completing the invocation, this is the least of the problem actually but I would like to point it out at least.
- It takes WAY too long to complete, I've literally had my entire team hooked, all 3 of them, before I could complete an invocation that I started. It is painfully slow. This wouldn't be as much of an issue either if the following wasn't the case:
- It Regresses WAY too fast if you let go of it, I mean I could sit there doing an invocation for like 100 seconds and have to let go for a moment and the entire progress of it will disappear in like 10 seconds or less. It basically makes it so that you cannot start an invocation unless you plan to stay to the full completion, which also means that if you HAVE to let go for some reason, all of your time was completely wasted not helping your team in anyway whatsoever... for example the one time I got the invocation to 95% and the killer found me by using "Ultimate Weapon" and stopped me from completing it. I think it needs to regress significantly slower than it does, or possibly not regress at all when you let go, if the total time that's required doesn't change.
- The animation to sit down and meditate or let go to stand up takes WAY too long as well, sometimes I might need to make a quick decision to let go, or for example when I get forced to SCREAM because of perks like "Ultimate Weapon", even if you are holding down the invocation, it takes you out of it because of the animation and it takes too long to get it started again.. I like the animation because it looks cool and all, but it's not practical for a game where every second counts.
- It should definitely reward more points for actual completion because it is a huge pain the ass to do and out of multiple attempts I only got 1 successful invocation and that was the match where my entire team was hooked by the time I completed it... and the game ended shortly after with all of us dead lol.
Anyways, I don't know, I don't think it needs ALL of the changes that I mentioned above necessarily because that might make it kind of OP, but it certainly can use some of them... and NEEDS some of them like the regressing speed and the more rewarding points and the animation issue.. but what are your thoughts? I am curious.
Perhaps if they KEPT the broken affect, but lowered the total time it takes to do the invocation from 120 seconds to lets say 90 seconds, but made it so the maximum speed it can increase from multiple people working on it is 50% instead of 100%, and they slowed the regression down if people let go by quite a bit, and made it so "screams" don't break the animation (even if you still scream sitting down), and completing it gave a point reward equal or close to completing a generator, then it might actually be in a pretty balanced place..
Otherwise in the condition it is in now, it's no better than using "No Mither", which is coincidentally and funny enough actually a pretty decent perk to run together with it because it gives you some nice benefits if you are already planning to play the game broken lol... but yeah what a surprise that the two perks that feel like you are throwing for your team actually go kind of well together ><
Comments
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I think it's fair to say that the perk was designed for killers, not survivors. I think this is also going to be a trend going forward, where survivor perks will mostly lean towards being detrimental, rather than beneficial. I don't think this perk is going to work, or is going to be reworked into a functional form, and I also don't think that the concept of invocations is going to work with the killer-focused perspective.
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Nah. It's the best perk in existence. Trust.
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I do agree with the above that it is more for killers than survivors, though it does give survivors something else to do and I do applaud BHVR for at least trying to add different things to the game.
But if there is little point in doing it or it is detrimental survivors aren't stupid and will simply not bother doing it.
I honestly feel like my team mates are sabotaging our chances when I see them start an invocation in the basement and I feel like that time could be better spent hammering out important gens to prevent a 3 gen
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I think the developer is probably assuming that multiple things can be used together in the future, similar to boon.
So please forget it for now.
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I thought about this as well, but then I feel like they should have released a Survivor with 3 Invocation perks like they did with Boons, so that people can pair them together and it wouldn't be so useless as it is alone.
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Let's say you wanted to deliberately do a gen inefficiently.
Before this update, you bring just potential energy, use it on cooldown, and immediately dump the charges into the gen you're already on. So you're using the perk wrong.
It's takes 8 seconds to start, then 30 seconds to store 20 charges, which get dumped into the gen. So 38 seconds for 28 charges. Three rounds of that is 114 seconds and the gen has 84 charges (the last 6 charges take 6 seconds and you can't use PE again).
So exactly 120 seconds for 90 charges and the gen is complete.
You're using a perk wrong, and still aren't broken for the rest of the trial, and if you do get interrupted, while it sucks and could even lose your stored charges, you still have a gen partially done.
Weaving spiders is far, far worse than that. This perk is hilariously bad.
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If I was thinking of something that would be useful as a single item, I think it should have worked on something else instead of gen. There is still a use for it at this point, if survivors complete the gen on the cabin side and lose the value of stopping by Killer, it will still be useful. However, it is more beneficial to participate in regular gen battles.
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I was thinking about this perk.
It makes all gens needing 10 charges less, which means that every regression perk is weaker on those gens, and getting it work after being kicked, also needs less work, since 5% from 80s is less than 5% from 90s. Its not much, but this accumulate. Especialy that nothing can remove progress you made on gens by invocation.
And yes, you are wasting time, because you spend 120s to made 50s progress so you wasted 70s, right. Right. But only on inefficient killers who do not kick gens.
More efficient killers who regress gens will actually make this perk more worthwile.
Add there the fact that toolboxes are also more efficient. To get gen to 10% you had to spend 9 charges of your toolbox, with invocation, its 8, so you saved 1 charge of your toolbox, for every 10% of a gen done to speed up process even more.
Also, perks like no mither is not a meme anymore since it helps much in this case.
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All Regression weaker - Do you know how little this affects? PR 25% max goes from 22.5s to 20s, and a gen kick 5% max goes from 4.5s to 4s. So even assuming the broken condition wasn't permanently applied, a Killer would need 28 PR procs, or 140 gen kicks to break even. The Killer would need to use PR 7 times as often as they are currently allowed to for this to merely break even.
Toolboxes more efficient - I think you have the same misunderstanding I once had with how Toolboxes work. The charges on Toolboxes directly translate to charges on the gen. That means if you have a 90 charge Toolbox (not possible but lets pretend), and you started a (normal) gen with it, you would finish the gen at the exact same time the Toolbox ran out of charges. The Toolbox speed boost is how fast you burn up the item's charges. That means a 52 Charge Commodious Toolbox puts 52 gen charges in 34.66 real time seconds, and finished that 90 charge gen in 72.66s, or saves 17.33s in total. A BNP/Invocation would reduce the charges by 10, and the total gen time by 10s, still only saving the maximum 17.33s by using the best Toolbox in the game (for gens).
I'm sorry calling No Mither no longer a meme would be like saying Slippery Meat is the only way to play soloq. They are all bad and increase your chance of losing.
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no way was the mechanic designed for killers. killer did not ask for another secondary objective of checking basement.
The mechanic assumes two functionalities which is why it is currently not strong.
1) It assumes multiple survivors having different invocation perks equipped. This is evident by the fact that having an invocation perk equipped increases speed from 50%->100%.
2) It assumes that survivors duo an invocation to trigger it. 60 second to channel invocation is considerably faster then 120 seconds.
The perk is pretty reliable to trigger in team setting but there is currently no real reason why you would want to only trigger 1 invocation perk. In practice, when survivor acquire 4-5 different invocation perks and everyone equips them, this mechanic will prove to be far more rewarding. right now it is just low reward for high time sink.
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this perk is useless! just the fact that they thought survivors would consider using this shows how they dont know or care about the survivor player base
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That's the thing though: you don't have to check the basement at all. If this perk fires, the killer benefits more. One survivor has done nothing for two minutes, and now they are permanently injured. The resulting -10 charges are simply not a threat after two minutes of 1v3.
Plus, any kind of scream perk can add multiple seconds to the invocation time by pure accident.
Additionally, I highly doubt that multiple survivors having different invocations equipped will allow multiple effects to proc off the same invocation. And that speed increase is a little worse than meaningless: Two survivors working on an incantation is the exact same level of slowdown in the killer's favour. It just takes up an extra perk slot, so it's a little better for the killer still.
The only way this could possibly ever turn good for the survivors is if one survivor could stack and multi-proc multiple different invocations, but I can tell you now: that -will- get nerfed from PTB to live.
Because they're designing this for the killers, not the survivors. The balance of this perk is way, waaaay too far off for it to be anything else.
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Well I consider myself a "Killer Main" just cause I happen to be better at it, but I play both Survivor and Killer about 50/50 usually... and I will say that no matter what anyone thinks or says, this specific perk feels extremely underwhelming for Survivor and honestly even though I was excited about having a 2nd objective other than doing a gen, if I run this perk I genuinely do feel like I'm hurting my team more than helping... it 100% needs buffs or a rework for sure. Please BHVR think about this, because otherwise I LOVE the idea of having another objective that's not just rushing gens, it would be amazing if this was something actually worth doing.. just something to break the gameplay up feels great already, I been playing DBD forever and this is something I think we need, but it needs to actually be beneficial to the team and not legit be a negative impact, which is basically what it is now...
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I play both sides and the problem is Teritorial Imperative. Been using it as killer because of Weaving Spiders and been able to get to them in time and smack em out of it.
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