The Unknown’s Cosmetics and Transphobia
Comments
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I really do feel like people read way too much into this and look for problems that do not exist. If people look at the unknown killer and think anything other than scary monster then thats on them and not a problem with the character.
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I'm sorry but if you see the mangled corpse of a cheerleader stretched over an inhuman monster and your first thought is "trans woman," the problem lies with you, not the cosmetics.
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Well said.
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As many have already stated, this is a case of “Don’t feed the trolls”. Those who wish to harm you using things you enjoy are only doing so as long as they get responses. They want things that are enjoyed to be tarnished or taken away. They want many to talk about them. Purposefully seeking them, and worse interacting with them, will only lead to more persecution. Their minds are set and full of poison. Don’t let them spread that to you and in term infect your whole outlook on life. Rally with your other members in the community to boost your spirits.
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I can understand concern like with the Jeff shirt with the angry looking Rottweiler, which got changed to counter the stereotype. Or that one hook charm where the Entity claws looked too similar to a swastika.
But I do not understand why people interpreted into these cosmetics that they are transphobic or promote transphobia.
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Petty fearmondering such as yours actually does more harm to the groups that face discrimination than good, and they are well capable of speaking up for themselves if they take issue with something by specific in a game.
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
When detecting transphobic caricatures in a game, it's crucial to consider not only how characters appear within the game but also how they may be perceived out of context. Look for character designs that rely on exaggerated or offensive features associated with transgender individuals, such as overly broad shoulders or exaggerated facial features, which will perpetuate harmful stereotypes.
We also seek feedback from transgender individuals or organizations to gain insight into how the character designs are perceived and consider the broader context within the game, including narrative themes and tone, to determine if the portrayal contributes to a hostile or unwelcoming atmosphere for transgender players.
When it comes to the cheerleader skin it is indeed not an exact duplicate, that is not what I have been saying. I am saying it isn't different enough to not accidently look like a transphobic caricatures and a stereotype. When I talk about looking for exaggerated or offensive features associated with transgender individuals, I'm not saying there's a 'right' way for anyone, whether a woman or otherwise, to look. It's about recognizing and challenging harmful stereotypes that unfairly characterize transgender people, a character in a horror videogame that crawls into people's bodies is no easy task to avoiding stereotype territory, indeed you have to know of or have spent time seeing the most wretched people online bring them up.
These stereotypes often involve misconceptions about physical appearance, like assuming all transgender women have certain features. By addressing these stereotypes, we're working towards a more inclusive and respectful representation of transgender individuals in gaming and media. It's about creating an environment where everyone feels valued and represented, regardless of their gender identity or appearance.
Now I think you bring up a good point about respect for others, you have a good attitude towards being inclusive with your friends and I would do that too was I in your shoes. It is good manners to that individual and that is important towards living creatures. But I do not think we need to apply manners to a videogame, a digital being is unable to engage in that. If that distinction was not clear before, then let me state it now. It is only a problem when a digital art looks like transphobic caricatures, NOT when real people do.
Now I have been following this story unfold on twitter and on the ghoulery that has happened, its clear to me this skin has been used because it was an easy tool to use to get their hate across and that is also gave them "ammo" to cause their victims a new barrage. It is the fact that so many found it useful that is indicating a problem.
I hope this explains my thought process and I hope you don't think I'm trying to place a looks judgement on women anymore.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
After seeing the VA's experience about this, I'm back on the side of linking the cosmetics. This is why we can't have nice things.
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the problem i have with all this is that in the end it still leaves a "this looks to male to be seen as female" point and that is wrong in itself. you said it yourself in the beginning when you mentioned broad shoulders and that stuff like that can be seen as a trans strerotype mockery but what is with all the broud build woman out there with saying that feature x on a female body can be seen as trans mockery you automaticly say there is a right way to look like female.
and yes you tryed to make it clear that you dont think that there is a "right" way to look or to not look but you surely get what i mean. when we want to aviod certain looks on a killer that can be both male or female cause we fear it could be used to attack trans people then by doing that we devalue that there are plenty of woman that look more masculin or that have certain masculin features or men that are build very feminin and then you just hurt a diffrent group of people even so you just treyd to not hurt another group.
in my mind the best way to fight back right now is for bhvr to take a very firm stance and to openly talk about that the skin is not ment to be a mockery of trans people or even trans rep in intself sinze its littraly the body of a woman and to take only the harshest option in puneshing people that get reported to attack people only with proof ofcourse we dont want to turn this into some sort of witchhunt where we try to get everyone banned that we just remotely dont like.
as a last note i want to say you are a very polite fellow and even so our oppinions differ this did not turn into some shouting match to see who is right. i would like to offer you some advice and that would be to not dwell anylonger in the pool of pure hatred that is called twitter. from my own expirience its not worth your sanity, sure there are some very good and smart people that try to spread wisdom and good massages but sadly most people on that platform just want to rage and thats why so many thing going on there are ragebate and most things get blown way out of proportion
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I see what you mean, but the reason I don't agree on this when it comes to art is that I'm a bit of an artist myself and I have often take choices to make my designs better for more people, which is why I make a difference with real people and art when it comes to critique. If you wanted to convince me that there is a wrong-think about making that critique when it comes to art, I don't know where to start on that, its very fundamental to my artistry.
You are also very polite, its has been a pleasure to talk to you.
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As a genderfluid person, I adore the Unknown, I love that we've got a freaky little creature that steals bodies and I love that I get to express myself through it regardless of the fact that it's "ugly" or "monstrous", it's a shame that some people are being actual freaks about this and harassing the VA and making transphobic jokes, but I genuinely don't see the Unknown as a transphobic stereotype at all..
At the end of the day it's a character that's meant to look like a monster, and it looks like a monster regardless of the gender it's presenting itself as. I love the unintentional genderfluid rep I got lmfao
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The joke of those old comedy shows was "haha funny man in dress" which itself is a joke based in transphobia. I'm not saying you yourself are "A Transphobe" but you might want to stop and reanalyze what's funny about that joke.
On a personal level, I think the Eyeless Woman skin is great, the cheerleader one though definitely reads too much like a gross charicature, especially with the exaggerated underbite that also ends up reading as an ableist charicature. I earnestly think it needs an entire rework, it's on a similar (though less extreme) vibe to the Claudette mask for Bubba; even if the skin was made innocently, the ways the skin can be used needs BHVR's direct intervention asap.
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Fair play, guess I'm not that in touch with things as I thought.
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Again calling it a 'caricature' is only doing harm and is perpetuating the notion that there's any truth to it, which there is not. People really need to stop calling it that, I don't understand how people who are trying to 'help' are going around saying that
It is nowhere near the claudette bubba mask thing, at least that one could be seen as offensive even in context. As much as I didn't like seeing content removed from the game it was understandable but this is nowhere close to being the same.
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This is silly respectfully. It’s just a creepy skin from past victims. Get the politics out of here. They don’t belong in Dbd. Period.
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She does have an issue with it. According to her tweets, she wasn't shown the designs when she was doing the voice lines, and said she wouldn't have done the VA for Unknown if she knew about the cheerleader design (however she also states for everyone to "leave it alone", and that behaviour is supporting her through the harassments for her involvement with the character)
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People tend to express their opinions freely, and suggesting that they're causing harm by holding certain beliefs might not encourage them to silence themselves; in fact, it could have the opposite effect. Personally, I believe it's not a great idea to make others feel bad about their beliefs. Instead, I prefer engaging with those I disagree with in open, constructive conversations conducted in good faith. This approach, in my view, is more effective.
In the end, fostering an environment built on mutual respect, empathy, and understanding tends to lead to more productive discussions and positive outcomes compared to shaming or belittling people for their beliefs. It's generally not recommended to intentionally make individuals feel bad about holding mistaken beliefs. While correcting misinformation and promoting accurate understanding are important, resorting to shame or ridicule often proves counterproductive.
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My post has nothing to do with ridiculing or shaming. I don't really care what you believe
I'm just pointing out a fact. If you're trying to be helpful and empathetic to a community and their issues, you probably shouldn't go around calling a hideous creature wearing human clothes a caricature of that community. This strikes me as basic common sense.
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There is a claim that that is a 'masculanized' body.
That is misogynistic. It implies that all women have to be able bodied. Women have to be petite, soft, and void of any deviation from such.
Women have many appearances. In fact, some 'masculine' appearing Women are being murdered because some MEN think they are trans women.
It is a harmful narrative to say that this is not "feminine" enough because it erases the diversity that afabs do have.
A very obvious sticking point that I will mention for good measure is, it is a creature wearing human skin. If your knee jerk reaction to seeing a monster wearing women's skin is to accuse it of being a trans women then that is YOUR transphobia being projected. No one else's.
Finally, do not @ me with a poorly thought out response assuming my identities.
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That is right you did not mention ridicule or shame, but you did not provide any reason why people would follow your advice if they disagree with you. So did you mean per request? By what method did you mean to get them to stop? Either way, I think the alternative I adhere to is better.
And to correct you, I'm not saying the cheerleader skins are a caricature of our community or anyone else. To me its perfectly fair to call something an offensive caricature without that having anything to do with anyone specifically.
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I don't think that's the issue here. Case in point: Huntress!! She got a much more "masculine" body, but no one's linking her to trans stuff.
The whole reason this is a topic, is that they had a trans VA and then had the skin be like that.
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have a skin be like what? the cheerleader skins is a twisted broken husk that gets used by that monster just like the male version.
if its about what people can do since the skins are not linked and male and female can be mixed thats another topic but there is nothing wrong with the cheerleader skin itself
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I don't have a problem with the skin. The trans VA does (she wasn't shown it when doing the voice lines), and she's said she would not have done the voice work for if she knew it was going to be like that. I think her opinion is the most important on this subject matter.
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I dont think most people give a care what she thinks and if she wants to have a temper tantrum let her who cares she can scream into the air.
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Behaviour cares. They've been helping her through the harassments.
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but gues what even trans people can be wrong in matters like that. there is nothig wrong with the skin itself and eeryone saying its to masc to be seen as a female and thats why its trans mockery trys so hard to protect trans people that they are hurting other woman
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I dont hate trans or anti trans but Uknown they said what it is. Its not trans or anything to that matter. If people want to make this about that can leave the game right now no one will miss you.
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What's kinda funny the concepts of transphobia don't even apply in this case because the character in question isn't depicting any sexuality or identity. In fact the concept is an inclusionary one because the creature in question doesn't seem to discriminate about whom it infests, hence the varied collection of skins.
I saw the comment that you have to think of how these things will be taken out of context, but if you ignore context you are able to arbitrability apply offence to any item or idea. Basically making everything potentially offensive.
Its a shame the VA feels as they do and a greater shame if they have been targeted with harassment. However they did post their thoughts to social media which is kinda throwing open the door for all opinions, even those that may disagree with their take on it.
To call the DLC transphobic and deceitful really seems to be trying to make something out of nothing.
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While I don't want to jump to conclusions, and I certainly sympathise and am vehemently against the VA being harassed...
The way they latched onto this thing, were so quick to throw BHVR under the bus, and jumped so fast to "deception and transphobia", I really struggle not to see it as a chance to make a quick paycheck by demanding compensation at BHVRs expense.
I'm trying really hard to give benefit of the doubt, but the more I read from the VA, the harder it is.
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