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Tunneling
If there’s not gonna be any long term solution to tunneling early in a match any time soon can there be either more anti tunnel perks added or small or slight buffs to the current anti tunnel perks in the game. Before I get a horde of angry killers yelling at me yes I understand that there will be times in a match where your hand in a match will be forced and you’ll need to tunnel someone out for pressure and yes more survivors need to understand this as well so whether survivors like it or not there will be matches where them or someone on their team will end up being tunneled out for pressure. The main issue I’m seeing is early game tunneling it’s been so common lately and simply put it’s no fun when either you’re tunneled out and killed or it happens to one of your teammates super early into the match because of being the “weak link”
Comments
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Yeah I've been trying to grind out the battlepass pretty hard lately and I have gotten out maybe like... 3 times in 4 days. Not only that but my whole team has finished 5 gens maybe like... 10% of the games, IF THAT. Someone is always tunneled out before 1 gen is even done. Every single game without failure. This is the most unfun I've had playing this game in a long time.
I was thinking it would be great if the killer suffered a penalty if they hit/hooked the same survivor within a certain time frame. Like the survivors get faster gen repairs for a certain amount of time orrrrr idk, something. Just spit balling here
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If 3 people can't do a single gen before someone has been hooked 3 times, that's not a tunnelling issue.
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i mean everyone is currently only playing strong killers who could get some quick downs if we’re being honest, basekit bt is 10 seconds so unless you can make a pallet or window fast vault that’s another down within a 10 second span and altruism will try to keep their teammates alive so they can enjoy the game which is less people on gens 😃. Invocation currently has people not doing gens at all so that could also be more reason for a gen to not be done a lot of factors can go into it either way someone being singled out targeted and killed before a gen or two is done simply isn’t fun 😁
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Nobody is ever FORCED to tunnel. Nobody. You can gasp LOSE! OH NO! THE WORLD IS ENDING! ME LOSE A GAME AND TRY TO HAVE FUN IN WAYS OTHER THEN THE GAME TELLING ME I WIN!?! NO NO NO.
The game is just not built to be played competitively, it's far too imbalanced yet so many people on both sides try to do so. In competitive rule sets obviously it works and works well but public DBD matches are so far removed from that. Survivors have massive advantages and in competitive where they are significantly weaker tunnelling is still the dominant strategy.
Of course it's inevitable that with face camping being nerfed (don't tell anyone but you can totally still do it, it's just slightly less efficient) that more players would resort to tunnelling.
There's a lot of ways tunnelling could be dealt with and the game made more fun for everyone as a whole. Well everyone who actually wants to play an engaging contest and not just be told by an artificial source 'you win'. However this issue has been around for a long long long time and I don't see a fix coming in soon despite seeing loads of potential solutions.
I'm not going to go into them here, it's a waste of time. I've gone down this road too many times to count.
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Buddy end of the day everyone is playing to win if a killer has little hooks with 2 gens left he’ll have to tunnel for a chance at a win or draw. I’m not gonna say anything about late game tunneling out of salt but early game is an issue
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There is a difference between playing to win and playing to win at all costs. Whatever though. Bottom line is, tunnelling no matter how many gens are left is optimal. Which is misery to go against. Something needs to give. But won't.
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pain res pop has entered the room
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I main survivor myself you think I’d want tunneling I don’t but I understand that there are two sides to the games and in a situation where you’re losing as killer you’ll need a way to find and build pressure and tunneling is one of those ways which is why I think it’s find late game but don’t like it early game. Sure you can say there’s a difference between playing to win and playing to win at all costs but if I’m playing a game and expect to win all the time without having a difficult time then that makes me a fool who wants everything handed to me. You’re gonna struggle at times and during those times you’ll have a last resort if you want a chance at winning I’m not gonna say tunneling needs to be dealt with and if a killer who’s having a bad game and would need to tunnel for a chance to just sit there and accept defeat
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Pain Res. triggers once if someone is being tunnelled. There are still 3 people working on gens. It's not uncommon in an average game to lose 2 or 3 gens in the first chase. If 3 people cannot do even a single gen between them at any point during those chases, that's a legitimate skill issue on their part.
If the person being chased can't buy a single gen with every pallet available to them (with pre-dropping being as effective as it is, and likely having WoO equipped), that's also a skill issue. With that level of inactivity and lack of awareness, the Killer could have stood in the corner for a minute and still gotten a 12-hook game.
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Should’ve let the basekit UB and 4 Man down equal a Mori and just made it to where if a survivor had a self pick up perk the game wouldn’t end. Just like that 4 minute slugs would be gone.
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We're talking public lobbies, not tournament grounds. I'm glad you agree that teams are made up of varied degrees of skill and knowledge. Sounds like some new players might have been about.
So if this scenario is common, and in my experience, it kind of is, the killer will likely tunnel still, despite the lack of any clear challenge. I dont understand the mindset or how it could in any way be enjoyable.
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I wouldn't call getting a single gen done before losing tournament level play here. Neither would I call auto-piloting from pallet-to-pallet with WoO and pre-dropping tournament level play. Even if pre-dropping is popular in tournaments, it's also popular out of tournaments because it's very easy to get immediate value out of.
I have more of an issue with people trying to blame their loss on tunnelling rather than the fact that they couldn't even get a single gen done or last longer than 20 seconds in chase. Even if the Killer didn't tunnel, even if they went AFK to make a phone call, the Survivors were still losing. Tunnelling hadn't even begun to make an impact there.
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I do think BHVR will need to start looking at solutions for tunnelling as it is getting a bit stupid now.
It is pretty much an easy win for anyone who will resort to this, as a 3v1 at 5 gens is pretty much unwinnable for survivors so you may as well just move on to the next match... which further rewards tunnelling.
I have empathy for others so I cant bring myself to play like this but there are plenty who have no empathy whatsoever and I do feel it is ruining the game experience for newer players who are easy targets for those who will resort to tunnelling at 5 gens
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Survivors are safe for 60 seconds while hooked. If 5gen ends the life of a single survivor, it's clearly not even that time being used effectively. And in such matches, everyone loses the idea that one person must always be involved in completing the gen while playing a staring contest with the HUD.
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If a survivor down twice before a Gen done, thats a hint that survivor's skill is lower than killer, and its not necessary for killer to tunnel to able to win.
Killers who tunnel against lower skill teams, are also those that complain about higher skill teams that finish 3-4 Gens before the first hook. You dont have empathy against weaker team, then dont ask for empathy from the stronger one.
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That wasn't the point I was making, though I do agree with you. My point is simply: if you can't get a single gen done in the time it takes someone to be tunnelled out of the game, then you didn't lose because of tunnelling, you lost because you don't seem to understand how the game works.
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doesn't matter. 1 stack of pain res erases %25 of total progress and with pop you can keep kicking %30 current progress off and if you combine that with gen blocking perks like grim embrace and dms which is very common, it is very possible that survivors can't out-repair a tunneling killer. they might complete a gen but that doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things since 3 survivors left with 3-4 gens left is also already a lost. not everything is survivors' fault especially if killers take advantage of certain playstyles or is an experienced player.
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Not everything is the fault of the Survivors, I agree. Not getting even a single gen done absolutely is. It displays an overall lack of awareness that was never getting them the win regardless of what the Killer did. Tunnelling isn't even a factor at that point. It's not like they got 3 or 4 gens done and heroically fell at the final hurdle because someone was tunnelled out. It's more the case of they couldn't even find the hurdles to begin with, let alone know how to jump over them.
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If 3 gens are don before the first hook, that a hint that killer's skill is lower than the survivors', and it's not necessary for survivors to keep doing gens that efficiently. But thats an advantageous situation I'd doubt they wanna give up just to be "nice&fair" to the opponent.
In any game any player would want to stay in the advantageous situation and press the advantage while they have it.
So why are we expecting killers to be the only ones to show empathy or slow down when survivors won't return the courtesy given the chance?
(EDIT: art by @C3Tooth , check their art, its cute. (although most of us here know this already)
I'd recommend stop treating the killer as some game master or referee and more like the direct opponent they are.
And a survivor can definitely still win at 5 gens. They can still hop in the hatch or walk out the gates.
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Or it might display an overall lack of proper match-making too LOL. I somewhat agree with what you've said but I also can't overlook the fact how easily and fast you can tunnel someone out currently and still keep the gens under control. Killers still have strong regression and block perks available but survivors got stripped from anti-tunneling perks that were actually threatening to the killer. I only play killer and solo survivor and when playing solo having 1 survivor tunneled out and still having 3-4 gens left is such a common scenario.
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I dont suggest killers to go mercy, if they try hard as possible, its up to them. I only explain why trying that hard cause mental illness to killers.
Peanits already said, no matter how killers play, they should success half of the time (60% kill rate), which either play Trapper no meta should have similar success to Blight stacking slowdowns and tunneling. Which I dont understand why people sweat so hard get similar results.
Side note: remember to credits who make the drawing you post.
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Edited post. I apologize for the art theft.
I dont want to bring up the Killrate discussion here. but the 60% killrate also includes 1k and 2k trials which definitely arent killer wins. Conversely, theres also an escape in a 3k trial. Havent had math lessons for a long time and cant remember much about stochastic/statistics.
I'm pretty sure a Trapper who's not "sweating" shouldnt be similiarily succesful as a killer who does. Same with survivors, those who do not try shouldn't be surprised if their results are lacking compared to those who do.
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Yeah I agree!
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Yes, because everyone has this mindset that every game, every group of survivors are SWF gods and everything has to be sweaty. I just dont understand that mindset. Going hard every game is exhausting. And I cant imagine its really THAT fun. But I could be wrong. Anyway, this is applied to public matches, where new players, low lvl players, all kinds are tossed in. Naturally, tunneling will stomp 90% of the players and BHVR now has a problem. Or maybe they dont. Maybe they're fine with this. Either way, even Im getting close to moving on.
Tournaments becoming more popular to watch has a bit to do with this wave of tunneling and such, I think. But mostly its just humans being humans. As many have mentioned, tunneling isn't required at all, but like water, weak gamers will take the path of least resistance.
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We only have so many perk slots. How will adding more anti-tunnel perks work?
As for the existing anti-tunnel perks... Maybe stop them from being countered by the killer simply tunneling.
Off The Record? Half the perk is countered by the killer hitting the survivor right off the hook.
Dead Hard? Countered by the killer hitting the survivor right off the hook.
Resurgence and Second Wind? (Only considered anti-tunnel perks if the killer does not return to the hook quickly enough.) Countered by the killer hitting the survivor right off the hook. (Resurgence is gone; Second Wind only heals the deep wound, not the injury.)
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Even though it's a game, it's still a match. In a competitive game, if one team is trying to win and the other is fooling around, it's natural that others won't win. It will continue unless the survivor does something that makes tunneling seem like a worse option.
So, should killers be worse too? That's not how it works. This is because there are four survivors, so even if one person is worse, if the other three are serious, the match will be successful, but in the case of killers, if one person is worse, all of them will be.
Therefore, it is unreasonable to tell a killer not to sweat. In the first place, this is the basis of the game system in which a single survivor attracts the killer's attention and other survivors create a gap. And good survivors understand that, so even soloQ can sometimes act like SWF. I love being in that moment.
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I see. The unfortunate aspect of your perspective is there will never be anymore 'fun' games in this scenario. The game has become sweatfest after sweatfest. I suppose some would enjoy that constant rollercoaster. But Sometimes I just want to load in and have fun.
How can survivors signal to a killer that this particular match doesn't need to be sweaty? Is there a way? I'd love to learn it.
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Precisely. I can understand late-game tunneling. It's moreso early game that is irritating.
I recently started playing killer again cause of this then I'm reminded also why I stopped playing killer. Genrushing.
I think I come to the conclusion now that Tunneling and Gen rush are problems that feed eachother and make the game stressful, miserable for both sides and these issues should be fixed simultaneously so everyone could have fun.
What boggles my mind is, I'm pretty sure both sides have complained of these issues for a long time and yet, survivors aren't receiving strong anti tunnel, which is needed, instead they're getting perks that help boost the very thing that stress killers out and push many to tunnel in the first place; Gen speeds.
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