Would this improve NOED?
I'll preface by saying I don't have an issue with NOED, I don't think NOED is overpowered and I think there are far more important balancing issues in the game than NOED.
For the fun factor though I was thinking what would happen if survivors knew the Killer had NOED at the beginning of the game (eg first time a survivor lost a health state)? NOED was very frustrating for survivors because it felt like getting punished for doing gens. However, if the survivors knew the Killer had NOED at the beginning of the game they could choose to either cleanse totems (which would give the Killer passive slowdown) or they could slam gens and deal with NOED after.
It would now be a tactical choice; do we take time cleansing totems or do we just slam gens and try to cleanse NOED later? The survivors would know it's a possibility from the start so it wouldn't feel like it's a waste of time to cleanse totems and, if they don't, do bones becomes a legitimate reply to losing to NOED instead of a troll response.
The devs could also then consider getting rid of the totem wall hacking itself to the survivors. Maps and the almost never played anti totem perks could get more usage.
Would matches get a more interesting dynamic with this to freshen things up? What do you think?
Comments
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My question is. Why?
There are tons of perks in the game that exist and are really strong until people know about them. The same could be said about coup, or dead man's or perks that give the killer undetectable to go for gen grabs.
Why not just show the killer's whole loadout.
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Honestly, I actually kind of like this because it would be a passive slowdown perk if they did choose to respect it and cleanse totems.
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In a world where there can trigger 4 Adrenalins with Hope together at end game, NOED is pretty fair perk.
This change would be awfull and make the perk worthless.
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No, Survivors don’t need anymore handholding when it comes to NOED. They should be expected to use their brains and deduce what perks the killer is using and if they don’t bother they should be punished for it.
It’s a Hex perk, high risk/high reward, part of its reward is it being unexpected.
Now, if you wanna make NOED basekit, that’s another story.
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I don’t think noed is a major problem anymore now that the aura reveal exists. The only thing I would want to see changed about it would be the specific scenario where a survivor is hooked near the totem because there’s not really anything the survivors can do about it then. Old noed was extremely unhealthy though.
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That's kind of apples to oranges. Coup, Dead Man's, etc can't be stopped by survivors and don't provide a secondary objective.
My question had to do with providing a tactical option that let survivors choose to either cleanse totems or try to find NOED without the wall hacks after.
There are no tactical options involved or new dynamics for gameplay if survivors knew the Killer had Pop for example. What would change with Pop? Nothing. What would change with my question about changes to NOED? The game strategy.
That's why your comment is apples to oranges.
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NOED isn't a problem at all but it would change the survivor being hooked by the totem to being a possible tactical choice of the survivors. Do the survivors stop the perk by giving the Killer passive slowdown by cleansing totems or do they risk that scenario by rushing gens?
The survivors get more control over if it activates and can avoid those scenarios but the Killer gets passive slowdown if it's respected as well.
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Basekit would be interesting as it would provide the secondary objective and game slowdown on every game. The devs would probably need to reduce gen repair times to keep the kill/escape rates where they want though. However, a secondary objective to change up game play more than just nerfing the most used perks would be awesome.
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Tbh I never felt like cleansing all the totems to avoid noed was a good use of the survivors’ time anyway and it was usually better to just try to deal with it in endgame. You can only stop noed before endgame if you get all of the totems. I’ve often seen it where survivors get 3 or 4 of them but can’t find the last 1 or 2 that are well hidden, and that’s where noed ends up and they didn’t accomplish much other than getting some extra bloodpoints. And in the process they removed opportunities for boons or for other survivors to use other totem-related perks (ie. Inner Strength).
Additionally I think having noed be known about prior to endgame would make endgame builds a lot less interesting if survivors know they can hard-counter a large portion of it before then (ie. you know the killer has noed but haven’t seen any other perk, you can probably guess what they’re doing).
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That's a fair point. I was just thinking of ways to add a secondary objective to the game.
For endgame builds, I never run NOED because I think Terminus has much better synergy with Blood Warden and punishes Killers less (even with glowing aura wall hack you can pretty much tell who has NOED still since they generally struggle in chase. Terminus users seem to do better which implies in the long term it doesn't crutch up their MMR as much. Or at least that's been my experience and having games where you struggle most of the game to only be fed a couple kills at the end due to one perk sounds pretty miserable over the long term).
I'd love a secondary objective for DbD though.
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NOED been nerfed already a couple of times it's gotten rather bad now really doesn't need even more nerfs since the best you'll get is one down before it gets popped;
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With the aura reveal it doesn't need any further nerfs. The only current issue with it is if a survivor gets hooked next to it but you're suggestion doesn't really fix that.
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My suggestion said the developers could take out the aura reveal. I do think it fixes the survivor hooked next to it issue as, if survivors know it is in play and choose not to cleanse totems, then that's the survivor's fault.
Right now it's completely RNG as to if a survivor gets hooked next to it. There is no incentive to cleanse totems when you could do gens instead. If the Killer doesn't have NOED it's detrimental to escaping if totems are done. If the survivors know that NOED is in play, don't do totems and then get caught next to a totem that was the chance they took.
If NOED were revealed to be in play at the beginning of the match the choices would be do I do bones (which slows down gens) or do we risk it at the end? There is no clear cut right answer as opposed to now where the optimal choice is to ignore totems and then take out NOED due to the aura reveal.
I'd argue this is a buff as I'd rather have passive slowdown from a secondary objective than get one surprise down at the end of the match before NOED gets cleansed.
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That build requires 8 out of the 16 potential survivor perks compared to the 1 out of 4 for killer. This means that whereas a killer can tack this on an empty perk slot like it's nothing, every single survivor has to sacrifice half their potential options for an effect that also gets countered by NoED since it instadowns. If the killer were to even the odds with a second endgame perk, like Blood Warden or Batteries, then the speed / time gap is lessened a ton, although I'd still give the survivors the edge in this scenario.
That said, I agree that this proposed change isn't great. It'd either be ignored entirely, or the solo q group would half commit, waste time getting two meaningless totems, and then the final gen would pop and the perk activates anyway. The level of coordination it'd take from a team to find and break all five dull totems is way too much slowdown for a perk with an already good effect.
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Yes but only because it would lowkey go crazy with Pentimento.
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It would need something to make it worth running with the near certainty that it won't trigger at endgame, something besides just "survivors have to do totems", you can get that and more from Gift of Pain.
I'd suggest: instead of just telling survivors you have it at the start of the game, each completed gen activates NOED for increasing periods of time. 1st gen = 10 seconds, 2nd gen = 15 seconds, 3rd = 20 seconds, 4th = 30 seconds, 5th = 300 seconds.
This way, you get a small window to capitalise on the Exposed effect before endgame, but if you do, you alert survivors to NOEDs presence.
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I like your idea; it adds more to tactical decisions for the Killer as well. Deliberately waiting for a longer NOED effect also reminds me of when Otz user Plague's red vomit to down people during a tournament until he had a 5 stack Devour Hope so the survivors were taken totally off-guard.
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Fun for who?
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Hopefully both. Killers get passive gen slowdown and survivors get a tactical choice. A lot of games are too fast paced and gen regression and blocking is fun for the Killer but not for the survivors since they can't do anything to counter it or stop it.
If Killers get slower games because of a secondary objective that's helpful and fun for Killers and survivors getting to do something as well is a lot more fun for survivors than just waiting for a gen to unblock or redoing the exact same gen progress you already did because of a gen regression perk.
If you play Killer would you not like something to slow down the game so the gens don't fly super fast? If you play survivor would you rather sit and watch a blocked gen and/or redo what you just did or would you rather actively do something to make the Killer weaker in the endgame?
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Breaking totems isn't fun. If that were true, nobody would mind the old Ruin or current NOED.
Survivor are not forced to break all totems, just know where they are. Breaking NOED when it pops is more efficient than wasting time finding and breaking all five.
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The "hook suicide if found early" survivors would just find another reason to give up. Only now 1 second after game starts. No it's fine and I thought also as survivor it was fine without the aura.
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