Genrushing: Huge Problem for Killer

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notyarbllewe
notyarbllewe Member Posts: 213
edited March 22 in Feedback and Suggestions

Like tunneling is a huge problem for survivor, genrushing is a huge problem for killers, especially against ones that try to play for fun instead of win, like me.

As I am entirely an anti-tunneling killer main, I actually don't care to win and instead play for fun, but too many survivors have become tryhards like killers, causing me to often get genrushed if I try to play for fun and enjoy events. Tunneling is probably the absolute counter to it.

We have to nerf strong items and perks on the survivors' side of the game rather than just nerf killer tunneling and 3-genning. That's actually possibly increased the problem as well: though I never 3-gen, stopping 3-genning now probably might be allowing genrushing to reach the end a little bit easier.

Though Prove Thyself and the Brand New Part were "nerfed," they still definitely increase gen speed, especially the BNP, which is actually possibly stronger now.

We need not only focus on fixing tunneling, but genrushing as well.

Comments

  • caligraph
    caligraph Member Posts: 359
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    nerfing prove thyself was the worst decision... now people are more efficient because 10% isnt good enough to be worth grouping up. Whereas before it was high risk high reward now the reward is pretty mid at best so people dont take the risk. I miss finding 3 survivors on one gen :(

  • Halloulle
    Halloulle Member Posts: 1,114
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    The thing is: if survivors know where gens are and know which had progress, they don't need particular perks or items to do gens efficiently - this is somewhat rare though; only actually coordinated swf have a consistend advantage (and I say actually cause a good chunk of swf people just wanna chill with friends and don't talk about the match while playing the match; you can be in comms all you want, if you never say which gen you're on no one will know which gen you're on and consequently no one can take advantage of knowing which gen you're on).

    If survivors have that down the killer does have to be pretty efficient too - one way or the other. Tbh, actual game sense and knowing where to put pressure when and where to check when and why can get your overall efficiency way past tunneling (except you happen to have found a weak link first try). At that point it's not so much about gens being done too fast but you not getting that survivor on the hook for one reason or the other; between god loopers, check-spotters, flash light savers, dh or whatever else there is.

  • notyarbllewe
    notyarbllewe Member Posts: 213
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  • Royval
    Royval Member Posts: 254
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    100% agree the game makes you run gen regression to win and I hate it. I have no clue why you don’t get rewarded for hooks.

  • xltechno
    xltechno Member Posts: 1,026
    edited March 23
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    People who are non like efficient play shouldn't play PvP in the first place. Please move to PvE. Or ask for custom play supporters on Discord. It may sound harsh, but it is important not to demand too much from the other person what you want.

  • LazyClown
    LazyClown Member Posts: 171
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    Gen rushing isn't really a thing tbh, they are just doing their objective efficiently. Killer it's a different story since the developers balance off of player surveys, we are pretty much at the mercy of the majority, the survivor role, and I gotta tell you since they started balancing it like that, for most of the m1 cast this game has been straight up miserable. I don't think it will be getting any better either, every trial even against inferior survivors is going to be a struggle sadly. Just the way it is now until survivors start wanting to make the game fairer, but they wont of course. They just want those 3 gens to pop so fast and bully an individual, that's all this has been.

  • xltechno
    xltechno Member Posts: 1,026
    edited March 23
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    I know this because I play killer games myself. However, killer play is also a game where we have to start from there. That's why killers don't listen to the nonsense of ignorant people and use their gen reduction perks generously. There's no need to compromise on outstanding survivors.

  • SuperCop
    SuperCop Applicant Posts: 137
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    I agree. It boggles my mind how we have all the gen rushing buffs in the world but very weak defense against tunneling. And gen rushing promotes more tunneling which in turn promotes more genrush. Like it's the counter to tunneling, too.

    This being said, I'm not sure if making Gens take longer is the answer either cause if they take too long, it will be very boring.

    I think a new survivor objective would help. Make it take longer to open gates, but not in a way that's boring. I think someone suggested looking for tools to repair generators? That idea sounded interesting.

    Simultaneously they do need to change the hook system, too to make tunneling or at least hard tunneling impossible.

  • LazyClown
    LazyClown Member Posts: 171
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    Exactly, but like I said. Who controls the player surveys? The survivor role. Face it ever since Patrick left we have started to see some of the most heinous things being done to this game. Basically, losing all killer strategy while all survivor strategy hasn't really been touched at all other than being enhanced fully.

  • DerpedByDave
    DerpedByDave Member Posts: 53
    edited April 5
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    Real problem's honestly SBMM / MMR

    every games a sweat fest once you hit a certain point, the chances of a killer matching with survivors who want to just chill search chests, cleanse totems to get BP are very rare. It doesn't help survivors will get called out for being "bad" or "selfish" teammates if they don't play the meta way,

    At the same time survivors who want to go hard and play sweaty games get matched with Casual survivors causing a clash. These 2 types of survivors should never be matched together.

    Then if you're a survivor just trying to play a chill game n run random perks chances are you'll get matched with a sweaty killer that will see your relaxed playstyle as a sign of weakness then immediately tunnel you out of the game.

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,312
    edited March 23
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    Generally speaking survivor items and perks are not the issue with gen rush, its base kit. Gens are simply able to be done too fast and maps are designed in a way where most killers can’t exert enough map pressure regardless of how well they play to slow them down properly.

    Ideally we’d gut all the gen regression/slow down perks heavily and slow the game down a lot at base. This could be better map design to easier pressure, mandatory secondary objective for survivors or something like an early game collapse to slow the beginning of the game down.

    This is also essentially the same philosophy for removing tunneling. Tunneling is an issue from gen speed being too quick.

  • MrPenguin
    MrPenguin Member Posts: 2,362
    edited March 23
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    Yeah both of these suck for their respective sides.

    Gens go too fast, full loadout or not, for the majority of the killer cast with the way maps are RN.

    Getting tunneled just sucks in general so that's a more complicated thing to tackle as you have to essentially remove it with big system changes. But we definitely should tackle it.

  • notyarbllewe
    notyarbllewe Member Posts: 213
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    Exactly. Tunneling is a huge problem, but too much focus is put on that right now. We need to tackle both problems... as well as actually FIX maps.

  • Dream_Whisper
    Dream_Whisper Member Posts: 720
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    It sort of does, because... when the killer is too busy engaging in chase with one survivor at a time; the other 3 survivors are going to do the most productive method to win; which is fix their one and only objective, the Generators. Sure, good survivor can work together and fix one or two Generators as soon as possible; but it is also very efficient to spread out and hammer as many Generators as possible if the Survivor being chase is the best player of the team and knows how to loop the killer and keep him occupied the entire time. Smart killers would learn to engage in short chases and try to end chase as soon as possible, or abandon chases and find others Survivors to find the worse player on the survivor team in the match. The worse player or "weak link" are usually the ones that are easy tunneling and free kill; and will give the killer a straight up advantage in evening the odds vs the survivor. Good coordination survivor will do everything in their power to try to protect their teammates, even sacrifice one of their hook states to let them teammates live.

  • ratcoffee
    ratcoffee Member Posts: 1,098
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    imo "gen rushing" is so much harder to define and measure than "tunneling"

    tunneling is when a killer focuses on one survivor to the exclusion of other survivors. I defy anyone to come up with a definition of "gen rushing" that isn't either subjective or asking survivors to throw - for example, if you say "survivors get gens done too fast" - too fast according to who?

  • notyarbllewe
    notyarbllewe Member Posts: 213
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    Do you consider 5 gens done in 7 minutes as a normal game? "Genrushing" is somewhat opinionated, but when people straight up bring strong toolboxes are perks, that is clearly trying to genrush. I believe the average DbD game for killer should be ~10-15 minutes, and it generally was like that. All gens shouldn't be done in, like, 7 minutes.

  • ratcoffee
    ratcoffee Member Posts: 1,098
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    I mean, this is exactly what I'm talking about. Defining gen rushing by "amount of time it takes to complete all the gens" feels super arbitrary. Why is 7 minutes to finish all gens the cutoff point (is it, or is that just an example?)

  • Timmylaw
    Timmylaw Member Posts: 225
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    That's still how it goes now lol, it's so rare to see a balanced match.

  • tubalcane
    tubalcane Member Posts: 153
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    But tunneling win is not guaranteed anymore. Not unless you are an absolutely awful survivor because of all the easy mode advantages that survivors have (and more every day everytime BHVR worries about their bottom line). 2 gens finished within a one minute chase is totally unacceptable. It's time to make the game hard for survivors again.

  • ratcoffee
    ratcoffee Member Posts: 1,098
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    Every time I see someone complaining about "2 gens done first chase" I get confused. I sometimes also see 2 gens get done first chase, but I find generally after my first hook the survivors are only ever able to get one, maybe two additional gens done, even when I spread hooks - I tend to get 11 hool 3ks with 1 or 2 gens left even after losing 2 fast gens. I don't really see how people can complain about the length of first chase as that's generally an outlier. What's that about?

  • tubalcane
    tubalcane Member Posts: 153
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    True - but then if you use gen reduction perks you have to deal with the dozens of windows and pallets that take minimal skill for the survivors to use unfortunately.

  • Bafugaboo
    Bafugaboo Member Posts: 402
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    Even adding a “mid game” objective could be a positive. This could be the survivors complete 2-3 gens then need to hook up the power cords. Have multiple spots that can lead to killer and survivors interacting that also can slow the game. This is the aspect that could help to slow survivors. The other could do something along the lines of either the entity needs to drain x amount of hook progression before being able to sacrifice a survivor. This could also be overlooked if other mid game is reached and vice versa.

  • Dream_Whisper
    Dream_Whisper Member Posts: 720
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    It can happen, it is not practical; but you can achieve a good tunneling strategy to tip the game in the killers favor.

    Survivors that are inexperienced and not have one or two Survivors on any generator at all times; it is pretty easy for the killer to secure their first kill in the match if they can easily spot the survivor and they are not good looping and wasting the Killer's time while the other Survivors should be working on Generators and not hiding in the corner, in a locker, doing totems and chest or even attempting to hide near the killer for the perfect flashlight/sabotage save opportunity...

    Agaisnt experienced survivors, tunneling isn't always a value strategy, unless the Survivors make several plunders and mistakes that resulted in letting one of their teammates getting eliminated too early and turning the 4v1 into a 3v1 or 2v1 or worse 1v1.

    4v1 one is the key biggest advantage when it comes to Genrushing. After all, you can easily spread out and hammer as many gens within the first minute of the game, is the killer is not applying enough or any map pressure at all.

  • LeFennecFox
    LeFennecFox Member Posts: 1,216
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    The issue is that mmr soft cap has been continuously moved down most likely for queue times. Match quality is very inconsistent so some games you play nice with little slowdown and get wannabe comp players or you bring slowdown and the players are ai.

  • felipesegatto1
    felipesegatto1 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 95
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    i must play a different game, because the game I play is simply impossible to lose as killer

  • tubalcane
    tubalcane Member Posts: 153
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    "Survivors that are inexperienced"

    This is your issue right here - the only way you get better at countering tunnelling is by getting experience. Not to mention the myriad of easy mode advantages they've given you to counter it.

    "but you can achieve a good tunneling strategy to tip the game in the killers favor" - isn't this the point of any strategy? I could say, "You can do a sabo strat that can achieve a good tunneling strategy to tip the game in the killers favor." If I said saboing is unfair, especially as it exists now and many killers agree, does that make it true and not viable in the game?

    Just because something is hard to play against doesn't mean it needs to be taken out of the game.

  • GolbezGarlandGabrant
    GolbezGarlandGabrant Member Posts: 838
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    I don't know. In the majority of my matches the killer could easily 8 hook and possibly 2K depending on how end game plays out.