General Discussions
General Discussions
Man am I so glad they fixed face camping
I mean hey its endgame so that makes it okay to have this really interactive fun gameplay right? Killer has to get one kill right?
Comments
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Consider it the killer equivalent to hatch. Against the majority of the cast who are incapable of instadowning, there's still a chance at a save and four out if the rest of the survivors swarm.
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Face camping is valid in the end game.
Some killers should have their power disabled at hook however because it prevents any interaction and is just a free kill which is boring.
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What is he supposed to do at this point? This is completely valid.
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If the killer is entitled to a free kill just because their power allows them to facecamp? Why is the survivor not instantly killed? Why are they forced to wait out 2 hook stages or kill themselves?
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Do you just want free escape? It's endgame killer should be able to use whatever way neccessary to get kills.
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Again, i ask you, what is he supposed to do?
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Yeah, the Killer is allowed to have a pity Kill. This Billy played well, you are his 3rd Hook while he lost 5 Gens. Of course he deserves a Kill with every somewhat meaningful Survivor Defense disabled at this point.
(I understand why they are disabled, but yet a Killer who failed all game is always allowed to have a pity Kill at Endgame...)
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There are no more hook grabs and you have basekit endurance after the unhook, so depending on the distance from the gate in many cases you can say it is a guaranteed escape.
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Endgame is the most dangerous time to get hooked because the killer has nothing better to do than make sure you die. They are under no obligation to turn around and stare at a wall, allowing your teammates to come rescue you. If you do not want this to happen to you, then you have to do your best to not get hooked in endgame. This is not always possible, but winning is not always possible. That's the nature of a PvP video game.
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4 stages to the end, I'd say this billy really deserved this pity kill, straight from the hand-holding bhvr company.
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New entry in the Survivor Rulebook:
- The Killer is not allowed to kill Survivors without first meeting the Survivors' arbitrary standard of "skill" by earning an arbitrary number of hooks.
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The thing is, camping a hook in the end game can turn a 1K game into a 3K game. It's always worth trying your luck. I've had 1 hook Trapper games that have turned into a 3k because the Survivors stepped into my traps on their way to making an end game save.
Survivors have the option to take the 3 out, but so many don't. They get greedy. That's why it's a smart play to camp end game hooks.
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Isn't it a bit rich to be given a mechanic that prevents a killer from face camping you through the rest of the game... a mechanic you were absolutely not entitled to because the point of the killer game is to kill survivors and camping achieves that perfectly well... only to the turn around and say not having that mechanic end game is giving the killer a pity kill?
You do realise one could easily turn around and say the AFC is a pity unhook don't you?
I don't agree with that position myself, but you do know the AFC is banned in comp because its competitive players deem it unfair on the killer, who is exchanging gen pressure for securing a kill?
It's actually quite fascinating getting a competitive DBD players perspective. Sppokyloopz has a great video on it if youre interested:
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Odd, I seem to remember a similar argument about winning not always being possible when DS still worked during end game. You know, something about "if you don't want this to happen to you don't allow survivors to reach end game and still have DS ready"?
Unwinnable situations for thee but not for me?
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It is annoying and I refuse to do it myself, but ya can't really blame a killer for facecamping at the end of the game. There isn't really anything else they can do.
However, I still think DS shouldn't disable at the end game. Tunneling should always have a risk, and you should be allowed to use the perk if it lasted until the end.
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Killers camping in the endgame is generally not a problem. Instadown killers being able to camp with zero counterplay is a legitimate problem. The best approach being to run out of the gate while your teammate dies and having zero way to save them is not good game design. The double standards are ridiculous in this community. Someone was mentioning the old DS debate and it's so true.
Killer getting a guaranteed kill because it's literally impossible to unhook=totally fair.
DS creating unwinnable situations in the endgame=OMG PLEASE NERF BEHAVIOR.
Tell me why one is fair and the other isn't. I'd love to see the mental gymnastics involved in this.
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Nothing else to do so yeah billy camping at end game of course. If your complaint is there's no counterplay vs instant down killers at the hook then ok fair enough.
You either trade your life or leave. Huntress on basement stairs, Basement trapper, bubba, infinite tier 3, billy, huntress with iridescent head they all the same. It almost no counterplay at end game to any of them. They are leaving with one if the killer competent.
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You can take that up with the devs by making a feedback thread asking for DS to be reverted. Enjoy.
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Why should the anti-tunnel perk activate when you weren't tunneled the entire match? If you reached endgame without it, you didn't need it, because you weren't tunneled, and tunneling doesn't exist in the endgame.
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Some survivors will never be happy unless the killer can't use their power within 32 meters of hooked Survivor anytime in the match to consider it fair.
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I didn't know Killers had to get a certain amount of hooks in order to kill off any Survivors. Making it to endgame does not guarantee the remaining Survivors can escape, otherwise devs could just end the game upon completion of 5 gens.
Things can still go south, the Survivors can still make mistakes even in the endgame.
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It's a billy who got 3 hooks all game. Your team doesn't have exhaustion perks or can juke him? You clearly wiped the floor with him all game if he only managed 3 hooks across 5 gens. The idea of you somehow managing to smash him into the dirt but unable to make a play in the center of RPD doesn't really add up.
Short of getting to run a t-bag train across him I'm not really sure what you are expecting. Your team demolished him and I would bet any amount of money he would say this was an awful game even with this camping pity kill.
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Nah, it is just that everything gets turned off in Endgame. Just so the Killer can feel somewhat good about a pity Kill.
Yes, I understand that there is nothing else to do at this point, but it is funny that Killers think it is fine that they suck all game and then think they deserve that one Kill.
"You do realise one could easily turn around and say the AFC is a pity unhook don't you?"
Not really?
And well, comparing Comp to Public Matches is already wrong.
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I'm not saying you should compare comp to public, as I say I actually support the AFC... but... the comp players aren't wrong... the killer IS sacrificing gen pressure for camping a player out.
I don't think any of us want that in the public game... but it is still true... the killer is sacrificing a LOT of gen pressure for that kill when played against properly.
What I'm highlighting is, the point of the AFC to is prevent face camping and encourage gen patrol, by virtue of the fact that survivors are given a large window to play around a hook camper. You can proxy, but it is far less profitable than the near guaranteed kill face camping gave.
During EGC, the killer can't afford to go anywhere else... there are no gens to patrol, they can't catch survivors at gate, the ONLY pressure they have left is that player on hook. It's then up the survivors if they want to take a 3 man out, or try for the 4... but trying for the 4 needs an associated level of risk to matter...
If the killer is forced to stand away from the hook during EGC, the game might as well just say, if gates were powered, survivors win and TP everyone to exit.
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"During EGC, the killer can't afford to go anywhere else... there are no gens to patrol, they can't catch survivors at gate, the ONLY pressure they have left is that player on hook. It's then up the survivors if they want yo take a 3 man out, or try for the 4... but trying for the 4 needs an associated level of risk to matter."
Thank you that you explain it to me after I said two times that I know why this is the case.
My sole issue is that Killer players always want everything to deactivate in Endgame, just because they think they deserve that one Kill. Nothing more. Explanining me things a few times I already know will not change my opinion. (Not that I have actually an issue with Killers camping in Endgame, since, I repeat, I know why they are doing that. But I think that Killer players should not think that they deserve a Kill after they failed all game like this Billy)
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... I mean OK... I guess I missed some nuance somewhere. My apologies.
I don't think anyone genuinely thinks that killers deserve a free kill, and I suppose the confusion is I don't see how disabling the AFC in end game constitutes giving a killer a free kill.
It seems like a perfectly reasonable and sensible gameplay decision to me.
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I meant that everything disables in Endgame (aside from Basekit Endurance and BT). Like OTR or DS as well.
(And before you repeat it again - I know why this is the case.)
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Nah, it is just that everything gets turned off in Endgame. Just so the Killer can feel somewhat good about a pity Kill.
Yes, I understand that there is nothing else to do at this point, but it is funny that Killers think it is fine that they suck all game and then think they deserve that one Kill.
Okay, let me write in an addendum to the rulebook here:
- If the killer has hooked a survivor in endgame and they have not killed anyone else, the killer must immediately walk away from the hook and stand in the corner, staring at the wall until the timer runs out, for they have not met the SKILL QUOTA to earn the kill and thus do not deserve it.
- I deserve to escape though, because I'm way better at the game than them even though I let myself be put in the loss state in endgame. That doesn't matter.
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I’d like to ask.. how does one allow oneself to Be put into a loss state in endgame?
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I personally think camping in endgame is fine but imo it's weird to say survivors "may" still be able to rescue a survivor *if* they have all 4 alive and then compare it to hatch, which also favors killers
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Yes, anti-tunneling perks disable when you can't tunnel any longer. We've seen in the past what happens when anti-tunneling is allowed in endgame: Survivors are able to get a 4 man out without any danger to themselves and makes it pointless for the killer to do anything other than afk. The game isn't supposed to be over until the survivors walk out the exit and not a second before.
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I mean, the Killer failed to kill a single Survivor during the whole game. If 4 Survivors are alive in Endgame, it is on the Killer (and since almost all Killers tunnel nowadays it is not because the Killer played nice...).
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He has 3 different survivors hooked.
I guess he should have tunneled or camped more in the game to get a better result.
Hopefully he reads the forums and rectifies this skill issue post-haste!
Some people are going to be miserable regardless of what happens in-game.
Most topics on the forums these days have me rolling my eyes into outer space.
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Add the anti-face-camp mechanic to endgame?
Sure! Remove the hatch...
You said it yourself. Killer doesn't deserve a "free kill" at endgame when the killer has just about lost.
Survivors don't deserve a "free escape" when they've just about lost.
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Hatch isn’t a free escape; it’s RNG-based without an offering (that the killer can see by the way) and actually still favors the killer who is more likely to find it first.
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I am the most anti camping and tunnelling survivor main out there... but this is fine as it is end game and there is nothing left to play for.
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Borrowed Time is unironically a clutch endgame perk just nobody uses it.
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I use it. Simply because of Endgame and because Killers dont expect it. They realize the Survivor has no OTR, they count to 10 and then hit and BT does its work.
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Aside from anti-facecamping, DS and OtR are the only things disabled in end game. I wouldn't call that 'everything'.
BT, Dead Hard, Buckle Up/FTP still all work. Even Deliverance isn't disabled which would have been useful in this scenario.
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By your logic, a Killer running endgame perk build doesn't deserve any kills too in the endgame?
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Aside that nobody is doing that - no, I would not say that. But it was years ago since I saw an Endgame-Build.
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I think endgame builds just need a bit more oomph to be as viable as regression builds.
As for the topic of face camping on endgame, I think if the devs actually shared statistics on how often and how long survivors could complete 5 gens, it would help shed some light on whether the "pity kill" in endgame is deserved or not. Pity kills count towards the kill rate too, if those get "removed", the devs may have to do something to make up for the decrease in kill rate which may lead to another killer buff or survivor nerf which will probably open up another can of worms
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Facecamping was more enjoyable than proxicamping. I miss that people play differently even tho they face camp. The only thing this update did was making a lot of mediocre perks useless and make all killers tunnel.
I miss buba, who‘s whole purpose was facecamping. I very rarely encountered him since back then.
As a status effect for hook related perks it would have been cool and you could have gotten some clutches.
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Uhh walk away, let them get saved and then get screwed over by BT and bodyblocking when trying to get them again ......
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It's not like the survivors are ever going to give the killer a pity kill. Killers only get survivors teabagging in exits.
How many times have you see killers give hatch?
How many times have you seen survivors leave the exit gate area, walk up to a hook, and give a kill?
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If the other 3 leave you die instantly if in 2nd stage. Blame your teammates for sticking around to teabag the killer.
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remember when hatch could spawn at 2 gens and everyone could escape i dont miss that
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Same logic so they get a free kill?
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They dont care. They're going to make the game they way they want.
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I do it all the time when I can tell the killer wasn't put in the right mmr so speak for yourself. Really if its an even match and they didn't tunnel and played the game to get better as killer ill walk up to a hook and point usually they try to drop me out of bounds but I'm stubborn and just go back to the hook or die to the entity. If they gave good chases and played to get better at the game then ill always give a kill.
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