NOED continues to be a very unhealthy perk in 2024 (rant)
Sometimes I wonder how this perk still exists. Getting 4 kills after 5 generators are completed when you only had one, a single hook beforehand, is not healthy. Most times, it encourages toxic behavior. If you get wrecked by survivors in a game, you can learn from it, and your mmr should reflect it and put you in a match that is more fair that you can use to improve, but (sometimes) with NOED, these killers use it to win and increase their mmr, and as they move up, the perk becomes the only thing they use to win. They become dependent on it, and it isn't fun. It isn't healthy.
NOED encourages toxic gameplay in endgame because "I downed all of the survivors who gen-rushed me and looped me well." It affects matchmaking more than just the killer's side, too. Those survivors that the killer wrecked with NOED, they're going to be going against killers with lower mmr, as well as teammates with lower mmr, creating a matchmaking hell for other survivors and killers. Of course, this is mainly talking about survivors who Solo Queue, who aren't as coordinated and will have a lot more trouble dealing with a surprise NOED than a swf.
I'm going to say it once again, as it's been said many, many, many times before. NOED is a crutch, and the little nerf it received, has not fixed its issues.
Comments
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I think you need to share more about how the Killer managed to down 4 people with No ed so that I can incorporate this strategy in my games as well lol. I can understand 2-3 people going down but 4 just seems like a really bad misplay from the Survivors
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When one survivor receives a NOED hit, the survivors should already start taking action. It's impossible for four survivors to turn into slugs unless it's a major mistake on the part of the survivors.
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Endgame perks are a thing whether you like it or not
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You're right, but there are those times where multiple, maybe even all survivors might be together trying to open a gate or bodyblocking for an injured teammate not yet knowing the killer has noed. The reaction of the survivors can only happen when noed is revealed, so if they don't know the killer has noed, they can unknowingly put themselves in a very bad position, especially without coordination.
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TBH noed it legitBEFORE MFT nerf it even better than MFT SO YES IT NEEDS A NERF ITHER HAST OR EXPOSEDNOT BOTH AND yes it an end game perk witch means you have lost no need to give supreme value for loosing the match should only be exposed really no hast as it end game peek most loops are non existent in endgame and 8% haste nor nothing makes most loops 80 % killer sided and free hits
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If you're losing 4 people to NOED after 5 gens are complete it's purely a skill issue in its current state. Like maybe stop trying to save that one survivor and just accept the fact that you will lose 1 person and open the gates. If they have other end game perks just hide until timer has run out. Also try looking at your status HUD and don't blindly run into the killer trying to heal or unhook.
Honestly people will complain about anything these days 😂
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I feel you, but I have to say I found a way, to make all the NOED Killers regret the decision to only rely on their NOED. I for myself are a pretty good totem destroyer survivor. I have so often now shown these NOED killers that I am done with their annoying NOED.
By the time where 3 gens still are left I almost every round have all 5 totems destroyed. No NOED will activate in the end. And so many times the killers only rely on that perk I am glad I found my perfect playstyle to help my team. Sure in the first 2 gens I am maybe not helping on gens, but I stop these NOED Killers from play around and think, all fine I run after that one survivor for 5 gens, cause I have NOED anyways.
NOED is really strong yeah, BUT when you have a totem destroyer in your lobby NOED is a waste of a perkspot, cause all 5 totems are long gone before it will ever activate.
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I feel the need to put the obligatory, "Do Bones" In here.
:)
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Does noed need a nerf? Maybe it is quite strong but people still using "the killer already lost cause the gen are done" is absolute brain rot.
The game is over when it is over not a second earlier
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One of my strats as Trapper is using NOED and setting up traps near the exit gates, then finding the survivors and pretending to be their friend so they let me stay in close proximity. Then as soon as the last gen pops I immediately start slugging. It's surprisingly effective.
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I feel the need to put the "Doing Dull Totems is a horrible form of counterplay" in here.
:)
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But it could be fun to see. When I started dbd and I Still played survivor every second killer had noed so I always had a bones perk in my build and I actually like hunting them
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Bruh, you guys are still doing this even after 2024? This forum never ceases to fail to be a toxic circlejerk lol. The way NOED is currently is miles better than the old NOED because you can see it through walls. Reasonably the only case that the killer will be able to protect it is if you are seriously unlucky.
Which more often than not isn't the case and if you allow the killer to get 4 slugs while also protecting their totem then that's a missplay. Now get out of here it isn't 2020 anymore you don't need to do 5 dulls because you get wall hacks on the totem lol. The only way it would be impossible if they played hag, which most people don't.
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If you want to PREVENT NOED, you need to do 5 Dull Totems. And if they are defending their Totem, you might as well not have the Aura Read at all and the result is the same - one poor guy gets hit by NOED and the rest leaves.
The main problems with NOED are still the same:
- Preventing it is dumb due to relying to cleanse 5 Dull Totems. It is most likely even worse than before, because you cannot afford to do Dull Totems anymore.
- The Killer gets a Reward regardless how bad they played.
While NOED is better, the core issues are still the same. And that there is an Aura Read does not really make it less frustrating when you go down against this struggling Killer who only got you because they got 4% more Movement Speed and an Instadown.
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The thing is who say that it's a struggling killer that only got the down because of noed? The gens getting done should be the normal and not only something that happens if the killer sucks
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I think your opinion that it should be normal that all 5 Gens are completed is not really the most popular one.
That aside, my main point was that Killers get rewarded regardless how bad they did. Going down to NOED against a good Killer is not really that frustrating. But going down against that Killer which is just outright bad, IS frustrating. (And this happens because of the 4% Movement Speed, which people like to downplay... But when MfT gave 3% it was the worst thing ever)
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3 other survivors going down after the first guy gets hit with NOED sounds like a crazy misplay from survivors. Noed should be 3 stages max (1 fresh hook)
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NOED isn't a crutch, as some would convince themselves. You sacrifice a perk slot for 90% of the match in order to gain something in the endgame. You're shifting a portion of your pressure, a portion of your power, to a different point in the match; one where it matters considerably more. You're not gaining something undeserved, you're moving something you already had further down the road at the expense of the now. And even then, it can be nullified entirely, potentially before it even comes into play. If four people are getting downed by NOED in the endgame, I put it to you that you outplayed no-one, you wrecked no-one; you are exactly where the Killer intended you to be and you played right into it. You need to play smart for 100% of the game, not just the 90% that involves gens.
Post edited by Raconteurminator on4 -
But that is the only way to make sure the goal of 2.5 kills works.
The gens should get done most games for that and it would feel better for the survivor too cause then it feels like you had a battle but still died if the game ends with two gens to go it feels like a stomp.
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I agree NoEd is 100% a crutch perk but also it’s a skill issue if you as a survivor can’t get rid of it. I mean it reveals itself. If the killer camps it then you can just leave. There is no reason they should get a 4k from NoEd alone. I think Adren is a crutch perk and it doesn’t have a full counter like NoEd. Terminus still lets them have the very strong speed boost. NoEd itself isn’t a counter if people want it gone.
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I don't see why dowing survivors during endgame is toxic. But I agree 💯 about killers rising their MMR when they should not because of a perk.
And good luck if the totem spawns next to the downed/hooked person, this person can say GG next even if it was their first down/hook xD
That said, downing 4 ppl with it doesn't seem very common for what I've seen, no? The only endgame perk I use is No way Out and sometimes Terminus.
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you don't need to worry about MMR matching because it didn't work most of the time😂
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IMO it’s the killer version of Adrenaline where most of the game it’s a dead perk and in many games it’s not used at all but is strong in the endgame, particularly if survivors are over altruistic.
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"MMR"
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Speaking of theory, Survivors should keep in mind the number of known killer perks, and if there are unknowns, they should keep in mind the existence of NOED. Also, regarding the movements of survivors in the final stage, they should never crowd to one side, and if one person is opening a gate, the other should go to open another gate, and the other person should move a little further away to see how the killer will appear. Observe whether the gate is coming and take over the task of opening the gate if necessary.
Is there a scenario where you can go from there to 4K while keeping the above in mind? I can't think of any. Therefore, there is a high possibility that the survivor made some serious mistake that resulted in 4K.
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I'm just gonna say that if you're agree with nerfing adrenaline, then you should be ok with nerfing noed
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Gens are extremely easy to do, in the nature of dbd there has to be something that can punish this. But hell, just nerf it. I say nerf everything killer like they always have. Just make us useless I say, make it to where it's an embarrassment to lose as a survivor. Pretty much already is though.
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Sbmm has been turned off for a long time, and replace with a useless buffer, the only time it ever has worked when it started out all those years ago. You gotta stop spreading misinformation here.
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At this point just remove the killer role and make this game survivor only with AI killers. It's honestly unbearable to see survivors complain about everything a killer do and/or use and call it "toxic".
Rewarded how?
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Whatever you want to believe bud
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for me the only thing they should change on noed is removing the 4% bonus speed. killer base speed is faster than survivors, they have blood lust and they can combine the bonus speed with other perks to be even faster it's just ridiculous how fast killers are and doesn't need more.
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Noed is a little unhealthy, but in 2024 there is more than enough counterplay to cleanse it. Unless they hook on top of noed it's not that scary of a perk.
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While I don't want NOED gone I gotta admit it does a little bit too much for it's "condition".
Whether people want to admit it or not, NOED is the very definition of a crutch: When a Killer fails at their objective they get a massive power-boost (albeit a tad rng-dependant but it can also work in the Killer's favor if the totem is close to a hooked Survivor/easily defendable) at the very end to possibly get easy endgame kills even if there's like 2 Survivors left.
People comparing it to Adrenaline are blind, Adrenaline is a reward for completing your objective and surviving thus far (something that is by no means a guarantee, especially since the massive and understandable tunneling rise ever since 7.5.0) that might not even do that much (if a Survivor is already healthy/not in chase then Adrenaline does very little except reaching a door a tad quicker). Survivors using Adrenaline have no guarantee to get value and are making the game harder on themselves by having a perk that's relevant for 5% of the match and useless otherwise. Sure it can save a Survivor that just went down (although pulling those stunts is near-impossible in SoloQ) but it's most of the time not that much of a game-changer.
I honestly think BHVR should embrace the crutch-like nature of NOED entirely by making a few tweaks to make it a comeback perk instead of a thing to just essentially guarantees a free down/kill at the end no matter what;
-NOED now announces itself (Survivors become exposed) as soon as the last gen is completed (so Survivors won't go for bodyblocks/suicidal chases against a Killer that's suddenly faster that can insta-down and instead will scramble for the exit).
-NOED only activates if all 4 Survivors are still alive after the 5th gen is completed.
If the game turned into a 3v1 before the last gen was done, then the Killer is already at an advantage and will likely get at least one more kill due to how much more difficult the game suddenly became for Survivors (there is no better slowdown than a dead Survivor, there's a reason why tunnelling exists and is most prevalent when there are less alternative ways to get slowdown). A Killer suddenly getting NOED even after getting 1 or 2 kills is just stupidly overkill, endgame saves against NOED Killers are already nigh-impossible and it's downright suicidal to attempt unless the totem can be found quickly (which is harder with less Survivors alive, try finding the thing in the new map or Swamp when there's just two Survivors available, until the aura kicks-in it's basically a coin-toss) and isn't close to the hooked Survivor.
Such a power-boost should only kick-in if the Killer has been demolished thus far and endgame is his last hope to at least mitigate the loss somewhat. A 3v1 is already in favor of the Killer (less Survivors to do gens, less Survivors available to do saves, only one Survivor can do gens while saves are happening, less Survivors available to heal etc.) and a Killer that managed to get at least one kill before endgame (or tunnelled out one person early) really doesn't need the boost on top of it.
I don't mind NOED being a comeback tool, but it should be active when needed and not just be there to cement an already near-guaranteed victory. And endgame boost like that will always be a crutch by it's very definition and will always carry newcomers/inexperienced players to last-second ties or victories (risking eventually raising their MMR to the point where Survivors are so much better that even NOED can't carry the game), but at least make it a crutch that's needed.
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lmao is it joke? i think you matching against low mmr because nobody uses noed on a tier and above killers. Mostly c tier and below killers uses noed and if you lose against a gf or trapper then think about your play style
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I would say both Adrenaline and NOED are in the same boat of the surprise factor being the problem, not the perk itself. If a Killer was winning by a landslide, they never needed NOED, and it does nearly nothing for them. If a Survivor team was winning by a landslide, they have no/1 injuries/y to be healed, and does nearly nothing for them. If a close match is won by a lategame park, the side could have brought a mid/early game perk and turned that into a domineering victory instead.
Since the surprise feels bad moment of getting exposed down/4 heals popping is what is the worst part, having tells/warnings is more useful like Rancor's aura read. If there were greater tells, a Survivor team could cleanse the 5 bones (taking minimum 70s of slowdown compared to Pain Res' 90s), or the Killer could avoid spreading the pressure (causing more tunneling unfortunately, but reap what you sow).
Personally I would go as far as to have NOED basekit (like Borrowed Time became basekit, but the Exposed effect only), but it only is active in endgame as long as there are no Kills. Once a Kill is registered, then the basekit NOED deactivates in endgame, or doesn't activate when reaching endgame. The perk would have it activate no matter what, and also apply the haste effect.
One of the major benefits of basekitting NOED is that it no longer is a surprise factor nearly as much. We arguably could reduce the gens back down to 80s since the NOED adds 70s minimum (not including travel/search time) and the gens add 50s minimum (to 70s max, not including travel/search), so it would just be shifting the gen time for when it is 'needed' or not. It isn't needed if the Killer is turbo-tunneling, so they get 400s on gens and 0s on totems (50s less than live). If the Killer is spreading the pressure though, they can get their full 400s on gens and 70s on totems (20s more than live). This also increases the value of Survivor totem cleanse/finding perks, although might decrease the value of hexes, so I'd want to see a couple of PTBs testing it (not only 1, as people will meme). At the same time Undying+Devour might reveal people on dulls, and get more value than currently.
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