How to resolve the FTP + Buckle Up problem
As a lot of us still know, this perk combo between For The People(FTP) and Buckle Up is very annoying/frustrating to deal with(especially if multiple people are using it) and people have been trying to think of ways to make it less annoying to deal with, but only have been thinking of ideas that involve nerfs.
I, on the other hand, have thought of a solution to resolve this problem without killing off either of the two perks individually with nerfs while specifically targeting the problematic combo in particular. This solution is to add a restriction to Buckle Up to where it will not work on a survivor who has the Broken status effect therefore not being able to apply the Endurance effect.
The way this solution would work is that when FTP gets used it applies the Broken status effect to the survivor using the perk(as it currently does). Then Buckle Up's restriction will detect this and prevent the survivor who used FTP from getting the Endurance effect from it. This way neither perks are killed off individually while eliminating this migraine of a perk combo.
Comments
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Honestly would rather them kill off both perks so I can stop listening to people say it's the only reason they're losing games. I understand that isn't what you are saying, but I'd really rather get it over with.
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Switch the endurance effect of buckle up and were gonna live forever (only picked up survivor gets endurance), now the stronger version of the combo requires some kind of activation or the survivor or more perk investment (made for this might still activate it).
It buffs a bad perk and makes the combo more involved
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That's how Buckle Up used to be and nobody would use it for that reason. Hence why they buffed Buckle Up the way they did.
I'd rather they not just kill off either of these two perks because on their own they aren't exactly a problem and perks that aren't exactly much of a problem on their own shouldn't be killed off imo.
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I don't think they should be, but I really am tired of all the complaining and blaming them.
Perhaps I've just seen it happen too many times at this point.
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And I wouldn't blame you for it either- How the situation is for me is that I don't see either one of the perks being the problem on their own for the situation that we're in. Hence why I opted to find a solution that doesn't go with the intention of nerfing either perk on their own which would then just be the equivalent of blaming said perk for the problem.
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No its not how it used to be it gained endurance status effect in 7.1.0 but made for this came out in 7.0.0 meaning you could have an effective version of this combo before that but it just wasn't worthwhile to use (soul guard + for the people + made for this or were gonna live forever if the other survivor isn't running soul guard) the supposed three perk version already existed before the 2 perk version was made.
These two perks aren't being killed off on their own because they are already dead perks on their own
Making it either a 2 perk combo that you need to invest some time into activating or a 3 perk combo instead is better for build diversity and balance
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That makes more sense, and at least make it so it requires an unhook/protection hit/save first. The fact made for this requires you to be injured first kinda kills a lot of the toxic elements, and at least let's the killer get a foot hold before it starts.
I'd be tempted to give a small speed boost (say 5%) to Buckle Up as well to help reach a tile, as just endurance for the picked up survivor on its own might kill the perk.
Buckle Up
When healing a Survivor in the Dying State:
- The Aura of the Killer is revealed to the both of you.
- Completing a Healing Action on the dying Survivor grants that survivor Endurance Status Effect for 6/8/10 seconds.
- Completing a Healing Action on the dying Survivor also grants you both 5% Haste for 6/8/10 seconds.
This would still keep Buckle Up decent on its own and open up synergies with Made For This.
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I'm talking about before Buckle Up received its buff. It used to be that it only gave Endurance to the survivor who got picked up.
Also I still tend to see both perks being used individually on the regular so I'd have to disagree with that claim of the two perks already being dead on their own.
The only problem I find with this change is that it would make the old survivor speed build of MFT + Hope + Power Of Two + Blood Pact come back again, but even stronger since MFT would be replaced with Buckle Up which would be 2% higher than MFT.
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Not a fan of this line of thinking, especially as someone who enjoys using Deadman's Switch by itself and seeing people say the same thing because of it's synergies.
Perks should be good without being part of a busted combination or busted themselves, what matters is if it goes too far like Buckle Up+For The People.
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No it never gave endurance before 7.1.0 which made it give it to both survivors, it when from no endurance to endurance for both, there was no endurance for the picked up survivor inbetween
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I think the diversity it grants by switching the endurance is good since you get 3 versions of the combo
Self sacrifice, FTP + Buckle up
Normal combo with activation, FTP + WGLF
Neutral recovery combo, Made for this + Buckle up
Rather than FTP + Buckle up just being the best version of all 3, more build diversity
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I agree with this thinking- It's the whole reason I set out on a quest to come up with a good solution to resolve the problem without nerfing either perk so that it'll only target the core problem .
Huh, I just double-checked and, yeah, you are correct about that even though I could've sworn that it used to do that at some point.
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Then you have to give perks a weighted score.
It's the same issue with gen regression.
Pop is fine. PR is fine. Pop, Pain Res, DMS and Grim are not fine.
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...Or they could simply make Buckle Up not proc on For The People, just like they retroactively changed Made For This not to do so either. BU and FTP individually are perfectly fine perks that sit somewhere around B-tier viability and could if anything do with buffs.
Why they are not addressing this combo beats me. I will say that spending two out of four slots on perks that individually aren't amazing and even together not as strong as people make it out to be isn't really ideal. As much fun as it can be to instantly pick up a fallen fellow survivor, it is quite often the case that instead of doing that, you could have simply taken a hit for them, with not only the same outcome (two survivors injured instead of one survivor downed and another healthy), but you would regularly even get more distance from the killer doing so, as well as not suffer from Broken. In general it can also be said that altruistic plays like this are not all that optimal all that often to begin with, and people would be surprised how often matches would go better were they to simply stick to gens and let people get downed and hooked. FTP + BU encouraging overly altruistic play can absolutely backfire, from an overarching match perspective and of course in the individual situations themselves, where it's possible to get hit or downed before you can FTP, or where one of you may simply die again 10 seconds later.
I do still think the combo is problematic however, considering how it can basically nullify downs earned through instadown abilities/add-ons/perks, make taking hits for others difficult or impossible to play around (you either take the hit or in failing that use FTP), and all but guarantee escapes in the endgame. I think simply removing their synergy and compensating for that with slight respective buffs would be the way to go. Buffs could be things like increasing the Endurance time on BU and decreasing the Broken time on FPT.
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10 seconds though? MFT was permanent, Buckle Up would only be enough to stand an OK chance of reaching a tile then would run out.
Ofc if you get all that up in EGC... would be kinda earned with all the restrictions you'd have to bypass to attain it...
Definitely, I feel like that's the Nirvana every set of similar perks should aspire to. Similar in strength but offering different flavours in line with your personal taste.
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I really feel like it not that bad as someone who plays both sides. We have do have perks to counter that and adrenaline. I think it just timing to be honest. Alot of time those people end up tossing the match cause they aren't doing gens or sabotaging hooks. They just sit and wait and try to run up to them to do but you can usually hit the person running up if you wait like 5 Sega to see who coming.
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Make it work when filling the heal progress bar instead of the healthstate change so instant pickups/syringe doesn't trigger it. No 100% sure how it would work on a technical level but that leaves both perks in tact while removing the combo.
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You directly lose games to it though lmao. If someone gets hit with FTP + Buckle up there is nothing you can do besides accept that both survivors get away because one pressed a button.
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If you've managed to lose a game where every player is running this combo, it's because you got tilted and forgot how to play.
I've had it used effectively once. Most people die trying to use it or never pop it.
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Only takes a single player running the combo and a slight brain power to force a hit over a pallet/window so it's guaranteed. There is only one response to seeing someone FTP and that's to afk for 10 seconds as they get to extend their chase for another 30+ seconds with no way to punish.
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So everyone is running it and Escape Rates must be through the roof since it's so brokenly OP.
Oh wait, they aren't.
It's annoying, and devastating in comp, but almost completely inconsequential in a real game
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The perk combo is fine. Honestly how often do you play against it(never)?! It isn‘t really easy to get value from this combo and I respect survivors that are actually able to pull it off.
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Oh wait, bhvr statistics mean nothing! Some of the strongest surv perks in the game don't even reach top 10 pick rate. Picking someone up instantly and giving you & them pseudo godmode for the next 10 seconds is not inconsequential.
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what's with this thread being made every time someone finishes a game where they saw this combo
I don't remember the last time I saw a teammate run this in solo q let alone use it successfully. That's my experience but I can't imagine it's this rampant problem in matchmaking...
not to mention seldom does it work out. You have 1 person off a gen all game trying to get a save, hit him once and you just made him waste his all that time for nothing???
I use to run this when it first came out but rarely use it nowadays once I realized how much I was contributing to throwing the game for my team...
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BHVR stats mean nothing unless they support my argument.
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The idea I've had is require at least 5% healing be done before Buckle Up can kick in. More specifically, heal a Survivor with a heal action that recovers a minimum 5%. Basically give it the same rule as regressing gens.
It covers the last 5% that's normally required for an otherwise full pickup and nerfs the ability to use For the People with Buckle Up.
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Yeah, that‘s also my experience with the combo.
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So, your solution is to make it so an undefendable play that Survivors can make right under the Killer's nose is to: still allow it happen, but then the Killer must now go for the Broken Survivor (who may have Made For This and be a better looper) to make sure that it can't happen for a second time consecutively?
Nah that's not a good idea. Just nerf For The People slightly so the Survivor can only activate it when the current heal action has been performed for at least 3 seconds. It doesn't gut the perk and it actually gives the Killer time to react and gives them a fair window to stop the play from happening altogether.
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Here is my thoughts
For the People
Become injured to put another survivor at healthy (No heal just transfer of one of your health statuses to another) you get broken for X secs, Revealed for X Secs and become obsession.
Buckle up
100% heal to downed survivors. If a downed character is healed give X Secs of endurance, haste (125%) and no footprints.
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Honestly it's like flashlight but just pretty much guaranteed to success and require two perk slot with one health state, most of time those who do this isn't doing gen so not truly sure about it.
If you are that tired of things so minor, you can always stop reading forums or whatever SNS you see and be happier :)
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More like I'm tired of seeing the exact same patterns play out ad nauseum for six years.
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For the People shouldn't count as healing action. Just this.
It isn't counting for healing challenges why it's different for Buckle up?
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For the People
Targeted player becomes healthy and you become Injured X secs. No recover no heal just a status removal to full health.
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The recover and For the People is ok. I enjoyed the perk before but now it's in every game.
But adding a second perk remove the downside and make this to a Double Deadhard. It's not used as anti tunnel it's a kill denier.
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