Is there a million dollar prize I don't know about?
These games are brutal. It's like every killer is trying out for the Olympics and they might die if they don't make the team.
People can make whatever claims they want about tunneling being ineffective but it's shutdown nearly every game of the last 20 or so I've played. This, when there hasn't even been a gen finished. Can a guy make some points before being steamrolled?
Seriously, is there something I don't know about going on?
Comments
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I'm not sure I've seen anyone argue that tunnelling is anything other than effective.
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Tunnelling is very effective and it is a compensation for low skill, something I see time and time again on NA servers.
A 3v1 at 5 gens is pretty much unwinnable for survivors unless the last 3 are all very skilled and do not waste resources but once one gets hooked then only one can possibly be on a gen and the match progresses too slowly as pallets get used up and the map becomes a massive dead zone.
I have said it before but I am OCE and tunnelling happens but I also play NA and the tunnelling on NA (LA) servers is out of control. Today I had one OCE killer hard tunnel in a game but pretty much every NA match was a hard tunnel at 5 gens.
I don't know what is going on either, it is like the problem went supernova in the last week or so as while NA did seem to have more tunnelling than my region, it seems to have become an epidemic out of nowhere.
Edit: NA server tunnelling is so bad I actually have to switch to my anti tunnelling build to play on there lol. That says it all to me
Post edited by MaTtRoSiTy on17 -
I am grateful for counterable perks for tunneling. It's far more tolerable than it used to be.
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Not sure how it is on other regions, but that's how a good portion of killers play on NA: identify the matchmaking gift and relentlessly tunnel them put ASAP. Once that's done, spend a hilarious amount of time chasing the good players on the team and nod at them after downing them in a 60+ second chase.
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If you are 5gen tunneled by a low-skilled killer, it means the survivor is equally low-skilled. Everyone wasted time with the first survivor being chased by the killer, and while he was on-hooked, others were doing useless things and preventing from completing the gen.
Due to his incompetent companions, he was made easy for the killer to dig a tunnel and easily died. It was his comrade's fault, and they indirectly killed him.
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That's not how tunneling works.
It takes FAR more skill to counter a tunnel than it does to execute a successful tunnel.
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What I'm saying is that even if one survivor enters the tunnel, it's impossible for him not to complete even one generation satisfactorily before he dies. That is an insult to the victims, and is tantamount to saying that the contributions they made during their lifetime were meaningless.
And it was everyone's incompetence that took the pressure off the killer and made him have no hesitation in digging the tunnel. This is because all the survivors promised that no matter how many tunnels they dug, they would never complete gen for even one car. You guys should think a little bit about how your actions are helping the killer's tunneling activities.
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Because if the Killer commits to a tunnel early-on, that means the Survivors have no macro options.
They have to stick to whatever gen they can find because there's nothing they can do to help that player besides try to slam gens. Even with that though, it's likely only one or two gens will pop due to perks like Deadlock, Corrupt, PR and PGTW; among others.
This often results in gens being in very unsafe areas and usually grouped together, making the rest of the game trivially easy for the Killer.
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How close were you to completing the gen during the first chase? Who worked hard to complete the gen while one survivor hooked? Your HUD probably shows little progress. Because if you are a decent survivor, no matter how bad the result is, if your skill issue is not bad, you will be able to complete 2-3 gens. Your story is far from my actual experience of the match. When such an outcome occurs, it is usually because one of the survivors has made a huge lapse, or the killer is simply much better than us. I think you just don't realize it.
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It only takes a single Survivor being worse than the Killer for the game to be functionally over.
Corrupt stops early gen progress. PR will destroy gens after the chase. Same with Pop. Deadlock prevents more than one popping.
I don't know what sort of meh Killers are in your region or time of day, but most Killers stack slowdown and tunnel off of first hook.
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Bad durvivors don't always get tunneled, and there are often matches where there are no bad survivors. It is far from my experience that even at such times the tunnel can ruin the game. I can still understand if it just puts you at a disadvantage.
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They usually do. There are always weaker links except in 4-mans specifically built to be competitive.
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Well if matchmaking actually worked this wouldn't be a problem but it doesn't if someone on my team leaves in lobby that has 7k and we all have about 2 to 5 k hours and the new person pops up and they have 4 hours played there's a problem id rather wait another 20 30 min to get a good teammate but that's not how bhvr prioritizes. Buckle up + ftp needs to be taken out of the game and so does tunneling both really unhealthy so is bloodlust its an ancient mechanic built before all the maps have been redesigned and for the maps it can still be a problem well it probably time to look at those maps.
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Agreed I don't know who hes playing with or against or if hes always in a swf. I can say that tunneling is harming the game more then its doing any good I haven't had a game where the killer wasn't running at least 3 slowdowns. I guess if were not gonna fix tunneling just nerf pop and pain res again.
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Killers are trying to win in a pvp game. Shocking!
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I think the biggest gripe for survivors is that killer if you make a mistake its on you and you get a lot of chances as killer especially with the slowdown meta. As survivor if one survivor isn't as good as the rest of the team its basically over because a killer will see this and tunnel them out. Matchmaking is a complete joke I get a one or 2 teammates with thousands of hours and then I get one with 100 or less sometimes. Most survivors wont get decent at the game until about 1200 hours because you have to learn so many killers ad ons perks and powers plus learning the maps and learning how to run loops and check spots. With killer you just have to learn to keep pressure the maps and perks. So if you have one low level teammate the game is usually over before it started.
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BHVR has said they're looking into a solution for tunneling hopefully it comes sooner than later, I personally don't mind the chase but it's annoying when the killer only focuses 1 survivor , all of the survivors are wanting to play a game not hold m1 while one person gets to play the whole match, or worse if the survivor is in a rough spot and not the best in chase they may as well be dead at that point because they are guaranteed to be robbed of finishing the game
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One thing I hope for is that they don't add or change anything that will hinder normal playstyles
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Yes, that sucks. They give up their numerical advantage and act selfishly. If they were altruistic, the result would be completely different.
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It not the survivours choice to be tunneled that the killers choice nuff said they just want to make it an easy game because they are bad at chase and that what the game is about is chase and doing gens if they men to tunnel so.eone out all the time the game would be a 1v1 killer will try to justify anything to make it seem like it skill
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What region are you playing? I want to try it. This cesspool of the same boring trial after another, playing out the same tunneling way, is worthy of leaving behind for foggier pastures.
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Survivors love to throw the map offerings that really annoying killers and bring in the best stuff all the time then wonder why killers respond back with similar energy.
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The big problem is that the counter to tunneling is almost all macro-based for the survivors. It takes 3 other survivors being almost perfectly efficient on the right gens to counter a hard tunnel from the start. That's hard to do as a solo player when you can't communicate and everyone has different skill levels and playstyles.
Especially since gens moved to 90 seconds. Tunneling is way too powerful and easy relative to its counterplay for a solo team.
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There's a classic saying, "it's not the destination, it's the journey."
I'd like you to imagine why I'm bringing this up, and I'll give you a few context clues to help you figure it out:
-The OP was complaining that the experience of playing DBD has been miserable due to killer playstyles they encountered recently
-You brought up the goal those killer players had in playing that way
I don't really need a response, I just want you to think about why it is I brought that quote up, how it relates to those two things I pointed out, and maybe, why it is someone might find your response unhelpful or even actively antagonistic
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I'm playing in Japan, and the entire East Asia area is matched. Of course, a bad game will have a bad outcome, but that's not always the case. We avoid sacrificing one person without at least completing a gen. Because if no one else is involved in gen, at least I will be the one to do it.
Sometimes I get tunneled myself. The best part was that my friends didn't waste time and only need one gen left before I died. This will definitely allow someone to escape. With that in mind, I watched the match. At the end, one person was hooked, but two people were able to save him by preventing a hook grab, and all three of them escaped with body blocks. However, this was also a match that showed the limits of M1 Killer, so I felt sorry for Killer.
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What’s unhelpful is using inexperienced players and bad teammates as a justification for nerfing killer. They should learn the game
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I agree it's unhelpful.
Unfortunately, crying, screaming, and having tantrums rather than improving your own gameplay has been the core of the killer guidebook for at least the past two years. Equally unfortunately, it's been insanely effective at nerfing survivor perks, base kit mechanics, items and add-ons, and even most maps at this point.
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Tunneling is a good strategy, but it's not always the best play. Sometimes you give up all pressure and give survivors too much freedom by doing so.
Doesn't really matter when braindead perks like Dead Man's and Deadlock paired with Ultimate Weapon exist. I hate to use such a strong word, but these 2 perks simply must go.
Remember when we had to play against Face Camp Bubbas with no base kit BT? we had to give up on that survivor and slam all the gens and hope that was enough to power the gates, and then sacrifice one more survivor so the other 2 can leave. Easiest 2 man out ever.
That's just impossible now, especially in solo. Gen block meta by design is so incredibly lame.
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There are obviously plenty of bad killers around. My point is that they tend to have less influence than survivor mains because there are more of them
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Until something gets done about coms and SWFS you can't really complain about how 'sweaty' killers play. They're facing a stacked deck. Because, that is how the majority of survivors play this game.
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I could say the same thing about 50% of the games i go against survivors who run 4 commodius toolboxes, try and send me to garden of joy, and use discord to get 87 perks for free.
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Where's the proof of that?
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That's clearly untrue; but go off.
Keep perpetuating this cycle of hatred between the two sides.
Both sides have bad actors. Both sides have ######### people. Neither side influences BHVR, BHVR does what they want. If Survivor influenced BHVR, Self-Care and DS wouldn't have gotten butchered way back when. If Killers influenced BHVR, Ruin Undying wouldn't have been nerfed and we'd still be in the Eruption meta.
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The fact that they sometimes make changes that favor killer doesn’t mean that they give equal attention to the role. 6.1 was almost entirely reverted (especially with the DS buff) and they usually make minor, meaningless percentage changes when they “buff” killers. Stop with the false equivalency.
Post edited by EQWashu on6 -
Do you really want to look at the Killer vs Survivor nerfs?
You really want to do that, you have got to know you aren't gonna have it stack up as you want it.
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If you’re talking about the quantity of changes, don’t bother. Survivor changes are almost always more impactful. Survivors get basekit BT, DS, off the record (which will 100% be abused by sweat squads), and maps generally favor survivor. Meanwhile killer gets .2% gen kick speed
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People can make whatever claims they want about tunneling being ineffective
Tunneling is the most effective strategy to follow and would ever be by design. The sooner one survivor leaves the game, the better for the killer.
What is true is that right now, tunneling is not as "viable" as before, and the times it is, is mostly survivors fault.
Maybe, just maybe, don't go to the save the moment the killer hooks somebody, and try to not unhook your teammate with the killer around. It will be the same to unhook 40 seconds after as long as you don't let the hooked survivor get to the second phase. That way, you gave time for the killer to move away from the hook and get distracted, and even if you didn't complete the gen you were doing, you would leave it with way more charges than just instantly going to the rescue.
Also, if the killer is doing "proximity camping", again, try to be smart about it instead of simply "YOLOing" it like most survivors do everytime I play SoloQ. If you time it right, you would only get hurt once and you would give enough time for the unhooked survivor to use his 10 seconds of free Haste and Endurance to at least get to a loop and waste more time from the killer. If you don't, at least you would trade, which gives the other two survivors up to another 60 seconds to keep doing gens and go for your rescue.
To finish, if you are not a good enough looper to force the killer to drop chase and / or you are constantly getting tunneled, well, that's why anti-tunneling perks exist. They are going to buff DS soon, so time to start using it.
This, when there hasn't even been a gen finished.
As a killer main that also play SoloQ I can say to you, talking from experience, that if from 1 to 3 gens don't pop between the first hook and the start of the second chase, your team is doing something wrong. Specially if the killer is tunneling, even more if he is 2º hooking that survivor so fast that not even 1 gen gets done in the meantime.
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Maps do not generally favor Survivors. Specific maps favor specific sides.
I honestly think you haven't played since 2018
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The majority of maps favor survivor
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Really the us vs them is just a plain waste of time.
Also if survivor was disproportionately favored by BHVR we wouldn't have a killer bias in outcome.
You can argue the tit for tat of who gets bigger changes but match results speak to where the advantages lie and in the average game killer is advantaged over survivor role (I'm ok with that because it's appropriate for the genre).
I'll agree with one thing though built in mechanics are a crappy solution.
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Most maps are fair, actually.
Likewise, we have over a sixty percent kill rate on average, so the game factually doesn't favor Survivor.
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I don't know what you guys are expecting from Killer players. The last Tome Page of the current one has two Kill-Challenges alone: kill 12 Survivors any way and after that sacrifice 12 survivors to the entity. Its those kind of challenges that make the game sweaty and they are coming from the devs. So…are killer players not allowed to get these challenges?
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There is one thing - stop playing this game. And honestly, i would, and i will if such things will be more common in my games. I find campers and tunnelers very rarely, maybe one in 10 games as surv, and 0 when playing as killer :o yet its still very frustrating to make one mistake in first minute of the trial and spend test of the game hanging on a hook, not being able to play a game i payed for... But yeah, those are rare ocasions in my mmr. I can play and have some fun.
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What would you say to someone who tells you that "making a mistake and hanging on the hook for the rest of the trial" is the game you payed for and that you should be enjoying yourself?
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This. Its why I cant keep friends playing. "Why would I keep playing this trash?" Is a direct quote. I'd say about 5-6 people this month alone tried the game for me and nope'd out. Most we're tunneled immediately and didn't get to play until we went customs.
And they'll keep playing customs. They'll never touch live again.
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The stats reflect the average level of play, which is low. In top level matches, it is clearly survivor-sided.
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That's like playing Fortnite and uninstalling it because you don't know what you are doing and get killed not even one minute into the match because, well, you are a noob that doesn't know what you are doing. The reason to keep playing the "trash" is to get good at it. When I started playing DbD as killer, if I had said to stop playing because I lost I wouldn't have lasted a week playing either.
I mean, I get it, competitive games are not for everybody but you should blame the player, not the game.
That he is wrong in the "enjoying losing" part, but right in everything else. Nobody likes losing, but it is part of any competitive game, and talking like you are right now only makes you look like someone who thinks they are entitled to "have fun" (win) in a multiplayer competitive game just because "you paid for it".
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1. Fortnite is f2p game.
2. Dbd is not competetive game.
3. Dbd is asymetrical game. In most of those games, match ended when either team is totally wiped out, with some kinds of respawn.
4. With getting better, killers also arę better, and still, same small mistake means end of playing.
5. Making mistake and loosing in fortnite is instant. In dbd it takes 1min per hook stage, and how much time spend in chase.
6. Even being really god. Looping killer for 10min, while other survs done gens, and then dying on a hook, means loss, and gives almost no reward.
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1.- So? Are you saying that just because you paid for the game you are entitled to win / have fun? Because if you are not, I don't know why it matters.
2.- Yes it is, a PvP competitive game in every sense.
3.- What does being "asymmetrical" have to do with whatever win condition the game has? Because there are plenty of asymmetrical games out there that don't fit your description, starting with any Fighting game ever released. Either way, what has this to do with anything said?
4.- Yes… and? Getting better doesn't mean your mistakes are not equally punished as when you started playing, it means you make less of them so you are not punished as often.
5.- Totally false, in Fortnite you could have been in the match for 10 minutes without seeing anyone and then get sniped and lose. In fact, in DbD at least you have the chance to recover from your mistake as technically you have 3 "lives".
6.- False. Because yes, you still lose, but you receive all the points you earned doing all that, including the points you receive from those other survivors doing gens (because yes, you also receive points for gens being done even if you don't touch them yourself). What you won't receive is the bonus for escaping, because obviously, you didn't escape. But again, I don't know what this has to do with anything.
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Nah, you're waaaay off on this comparison.
Fortnite is pretty straight forward. Its a shooter. You expect to shoot and get shot.
You think Dbd is the exact same? Any new player can come in and just learn it like one does with fortnite?
I don't believe you think this at all. A bad experience in a new game is no reason to quit. Im sure we agree. Where we disagree is when a player plays a new game for a few days and decides its not fun. You feel they should stick it out. And maybe they should.
Forenite would show player pregression better than Dbd imo. If you get 10 games in a row where you or someone is tunneled, a new player will think this is the norm (and right now it kind of is.) and likely stop playing. I don't feel this is anything but totally natural and understandable. Not players being lazy or.. whatever this would be called. Not even sure lol.
By no means am I trying to berate this, I'm just trying to understand. This view threw me way off. Thank you @Batusalen
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