Is there a million dollar prize I don't know about?
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We have high-mmr stats and they say otherwise.
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I hardly think that telling them they wasted twenty minutes for that experience is going to be much of an encouragement.
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The threshold for high MMR is low. The majority of the playerbase is low because who knows how many people try out the game or play once or twice a week. I’d bet that the majority of people who play consistently are at high mmr. The stats that you mention also clearly show that a full SWF at high mmr has a much higher win rate than the 40% BHVR is aiming for.
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But they still lose over two people on average; meaning it's STILL Killer-sided
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high mmr =/= top mmr.
the official stats showed the winrate of the absolute top mmr players.
You've been told this numerous times.
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48% is much higher than 40. It’s basically half and half. I don’t call that killer sided
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I've had a couple of friends who I introduced to DBD recently stop playing completely after only a couple of weeks playing this game.
Even with me there to help them there's FAAAAR too steep of a learning curve for new players, especially survivors. You're expected to learn all killer powers, how to counter them, all the killer perks and how to deal with them, all the survivor perks so you know what your teammates may be running, all the maps, all the tiles, items, bloodwebs, prestiging, rifts, tomes, events, and that's assuming all the games even go normally.
Once you've played a few games and you're out of "New player MMR", you're thrown RIGHT against much better killers who you have no chance against, and loads of tunneling.
It's a wonder anyone sticks with the game.
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If Survivors escaped 52% of the time, you'd be the first to proclaim how unfair that is and how Survivor-sided the game is
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I meant twenty minutes.
Get a group together, queue up, sit in queue, probably get dodged a couple times, load in, look around, do a bit of a gen, get chased, go down and die. Wait for your friends to play out the game without you.
Boom, twenty minutes gone for a horrible experience.
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Well, that's even better: That argument can be used in any game with a long enough queue time where you can lose the match. Even F2P ones. You know why? Because it is a risk you take in every single competitive game the moment you click the "Join game" button.
Do you know where you can get a guaranteed experience without having to worry about wasting any minute looking for a match that you may lose and / or having a bad time? Single player games. Maybe even PvE cooperative games, if you play with friends and don't get salty with them if you get wiped out.
Just saying.
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If killer can tunnel someone out at 5 gens I say he is skilled as that would mean under 20s chases. Sure that would mean the killer would win with any tactics so it's not neccessary.
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Except DBD is rather different.
It's not mechanically like other games, the tutorial doesn't really teach you much and if you lose, you aren't allowed to contribute at all anymore. No respawns, no ghost mode, nothing. You're dead, you have a bad experience and you get no BP.
The game is extremely hard to pick up and is very unforgiving.
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I know where you can't. Dbd. Your turn.
I wonder how it feels to defend making the game miserable for other players as a 'normal thing'. I just dont get it.
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Way to shift the argument. Some things also matter more than numbers. We always hear about “improving the survivor experience “, followed by hand holding mechanics and perk changes. Killer gets essentially nothing. BHVR has said that killer should feel like an unstoppable force, and nothing could be further from the truth against a good survivor team. Loading into the game against a gen rush group doesn’t feel good. Loading into leary’s as huntress or deathslinger feels like garbage. Numbers don’t tell the whole story.
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Perhaps not.
You weren't arguing that though. You have continued to maintain that the game is Survivor-sided despite massive amounts of evidence to the contrary.
This leads me to believe it must be a personal experience. Are you losing the majority of your matches? Somehow, I doubt it.
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It’s survivor-sided because when both sides know what they are doing, killer is at a disadvantage. It doesn’t make sense to judge the game based on people who don’t know what they’re doing. I’ve already told you that I win most of my matches. I judge balance based around both sides at their max potential. Any experienced killer has had matches in which they load in and have the deck stacked against them from the beginning. You might as well be an NPC in those situations. If they want the game to be casual, that’s fine, but it should be applied to both sides. I’m all for sweating too, but they need to pick an approach and stick with it.
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Maybe comparing games is the wrong way. There isn't a game similar enough to Dbd to compare realistically imo.
In that part I was addressing explicitly what you said about Fortnite.
Talking in DbD terms, even if you can't directly compare it with another game mechanically speaking , you can with the process of what you need to get good at the game. In fact, I already did: Fighting games. Like I said, in a fighting game you need to not just know your character, but the rest of the roster to know how to counter them and use your attacks effectively against them.
In DbD, even if you don't need to go as deep as in a fighting game (you don't need to now that Nemesis's whip charging animation takes 0.35 seconds and it has a hit window of 0.333 seconds to know how to dodge it, when in a fighting game knowing frame data is crucial) you still have to learn how the 35 killers + survivors + most used perks work and how to counter them to be able to play against them efficiently.
And again, that isn't something that you are going to learn in a couple of days, not in a week or two. And that without taking into account other things also common in other genres, like learning map layouts or developing a good game sense to know what to do and when to do it.
If a player plays a game for a week, and decides they dont like it, that doesn't mean they were bad at it.
True, but we were talking about why new players would just say "this game is trash" for having a "bad experience" with the game, killed the first one in a match in this case, after playing a couple of days. Any other reason a person can have to stop playing a game after a while is irrelevant for this conversation.
Like I said, I stopped playing Fortnite after playing it for months because I didn't like the building that much.
That is not something someone needs to hear about a game 'being fun.' Its not fun.
Of course it isn't, as it is not fun to get killed in Fortnite before you can even get a gun. It's not fun getting your ass kicked in a fighting game because you don't know which one of his attacks would grant you a +15 frame advantage on block that would allow you to punish with your 14 frame combo starter, and he knows everything about your character. It's not fun to get killed over and over again by the same camper in CoD because none of your teammates have thought of throwing grenades at him. It's not fun to spend hours making your perfect deck in MtG Arena and be destroyed by someone with a discard meta deck.
It's not fun, but it is part of any competitive game. Specially when you just started learning it.
Also, there is plenty of things you can do in a tunneling situation, specially in a SWF with voicecomms. Instead of saying "be our gen JC and just die for our sins", maybe you could have taught them how to coordinate a save and to body block the killer to force him to chase somebody else. You could have slotted Reassurance or a flashlight to save them when going down, I don't know.
So no, it's not that gamers in this scenario are lazy or need to 'get gud.'
Again, nobody said that anyone is lazy, but they definitely need to "git gud" before saying something like "this game is trash" and stop playing because they got tunneled in 2 games and "a few more".
The game sucks for new people. […] I base it on experience with trying to get new players in and the reactions thereof
Sorry to say, but no wonder if every time they face a hard situation with simple in game solutions, your advice for them is "just die".
Thats a lot to assume.
I don't think it is a "lot to assume", taking in count there are few competitive games where you would get any good in just a few days playing them. And like I said, we are talking about one specific reason for not liking a competitive multiplayer game after just playing for a while, not the whole spectrum of reasons of why someone may not like a game.
Since I've played both, this is my take: Fortnite is mostly a point and click, learn one map, and in general a great moba style free for all
Excuse me, what?…
Are you thinking of League of Legends? Because it confuses me a lot that you mentioned multiple times that Fortnite is a "shooter" and that you played it, and now you are not just oversimplifying its gameplay to simply "point and click" but calling it a "MOBA"…
Just feels like dbd is a more in depth game when it comes to 'learning it'. There's more to learn. But maybe I just haven't played Fortnite enough lol.
True, but… what does that have to do with one or the other "showing their progression better"?
My friends are an example of this. They did not like how games played out. They were tunneled and, basically, didn't get a chance to 'get gud.'
Unless they got banned the moment a killer tunneled them, they had the chance to "git gud". They still have. They only need to start playing again, and start learning how it works. From a source that really teaches them how to deal with things in game apart from dying, preferably.
You and other killers say they wont put in the time to get gud. We say the time isn't worth putting in because of the killer meta.
Well, I started playing this game pre DH nerf, with every game having at least 3 of them. I could have said the same as you are saying right now, "is not worth putting time in getting good as survivors meta is busted". Instead, I kept playing and learned how to deal with that meta.
Whatever the reason, you are admitting that at the end of the day, they didn't put in the time to get good.
But NA is now slathered with killers who will be able to tunnel
Like I said in the other post above, if they are able to tunnel so efficiently, taking into account all the mechanics they added to the game, it has more to do with survivors allowing it than not. There are plenty of ways to avoid making it easier for the killer to tunnel, and even escaping a "proximity camper" situation, specially if you are in a SWF that can coordinate through voice.
Of course, if your first and only option to deal with it is "be a martyr", it can be a little tricky.
Post edited by Batusalen on0 -
True… dare to explain how any of that contradicts anything I said?
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I don't need my turn, I have already stated pretty clearly that where you can't have a guaranteed experience everytime you play is in any competitive game, including DbD. Sometimes it would be good, others would be bad. Don't like it? Play a single player game, those guarantee the same experience everytime you play them.
And the problem here is that what makes "other players miserable" is just people playing to win in a PvP multiplayer game. What is not normal is complaining about it, and this community is the only one with enough entitled people to validate those claims.
Post edited by Batusalen on1 -
Same ive bought the game for 20 people now 2 have stayed but barley.
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If a person is always making mistakes and is always hanging on to the hook, then there is a problem with that person. Also, if he quits after just one or two games, he probably can't play any games. That person should enjoy movies and dramas, not games.
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Of course it is not necessary but they also stack 3/4 gen perks on top of that
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A game that withholds information, doesn't have much skill transfer from other games and has a "permanent" death system means the new player experience is particularly #########.
Losing doesn't necessarily equate to a bad time in other games. It almost always does in DBD, especially when you don't know what's going on and feel like you're set-up to fail.
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The lack of empathy for new players is absolutely astounding.
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If you invited them to the game, you should support them. If you're doing it alone, the impression that person receives is everything. Is it wrong? However, the fact that so many players remain here shows that assistance is not necessarily necessary.
Various players upload streams to Youtube every day. Some of them are showing us how they have worked hard to grow from being beginners. Is this helpful?
This is a game. If you're not trying to enjoy the game, but just think you should enjoy yourself because you paid for it, and if you don't, it's crap, the game won't welcome you.I don't want to be kind to them just because they're new. We will be kind to those who want to enjoy the game. Peoples who just selfishly tell you to let the game play aren't trying to enjoy the game, they just want they to feel good about themself. And I forget that there are players on the other side of the monitor. Such selfish people are not accepted even if they are new.
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In 3x3 Basketball, they will practice everything from dribbling to shooting. Deepen they understanding of defense and offense. It is not necessarily a classroom lecture. Sometimes every learn it by experiencing it many times.
“DBD is different, value beginners”
When it comes to skateboarding, they first learn how to ride without getting injured, and then learn each technique one by one. They can't perform acrobatic techniques like a pro in one step. But no players there are complaining. It is the player's duty to improve in order to perform tricks, because they want to do it.
“DBD is different. Be more empathetic to beginners.”So all I'm saying is:
"DBD is different. Only DBD can get away with such selfishness."2 -
Actually on second thought that's not a comment I want to put out there. I meant to make a light joke at one user's expense and then move on to give that user some indirect advice, but I realized the way I phrased it sounded harsher/ruder than I meant and I couldn't come up with a better phrasing for it, so I'm just gonna overwrite that comment with this one.
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As some comments were continuing to get out of hand, getting aggressive or off-topic, the thread will be locked here. Please remember to keep comments civil and respectful.
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