Is this an issue?

I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone use this strategy. How often do you encounter it? Or is this purely hypothetical?

Every five games is common. I weirdly never see this as killer (most importantly), or solo queue survivor. And in my SWF groups people aren’t really doing it either. 🤷🏽‍♀️

From my experience mmr works. I rarely meet the Weskers, Blights, Nurses and other killers that I'm seeing by others.

Because I think you should be able to majorly delay a tunnel.

Until something changes in the games "basekit", I think it has a place. I'm also willing to see how DS affects it, and make changes accordingly, because it's not an issue currently.

I'd really like to at least see them try the no collision idea at least for basekit endurance, if not for whenever someone has endurance full stop. Seems like the smoothest thing to at least try that doesn't have the potential for extremely obnoxious side effects (like the terrible idea of treating protection hits as inherently conspicious actions. Yes, I totally want to have all my anti-tunnel turned off because there was an injured Meg in a bush where I happened to go down, very epic!)

Obviously makes it so you can just walk through them if they try to block, and also makes it better at anti tunnel too. Killer can't partially or even fully block to wait it out, and it's easier for teammates to take hits for the person that came off the hook without risking accidentally blocking the survivor they're trying to help while doing so as well.

"If someone is running OTR/DS/DH/UB that means they have no gen perks or
items not to mention, UB and DS work once per trial, I don't see why
this is a problem. "

I don't agree with this at all. Most high mmr
matches the entire groups are running that type of build. The only way
those groups lose is through some tunneling/slugging combination and
those perks counter all those situations. Survivors are not perk
dependent like killers are. As survivor you do not need gen perks. If
the killer isn't tunneling or slugging, going for a 12 hook game and you
still lose your team misplayed a lot. Calling UB and DS not an issue
because they proc once per trial is extremely downplaying
their impacts. If you play at high mmr you would know how impactful
even one proc of those has on a trial, much less multiple they can come
from different survivors.

Honestly, it's easier to trim posts by omitting anything about 'high mmr'. Everyone states they are at the highest of the high and 110% of that is merely ego-soothing. No one know their MMR, no one knows anything about it. People get stomped now and then and assume "Wow, I lost. I must be omega high mmr!" Calm down, stating you have high mmr doesn't make your post or points any more relevant.

If there are things to do to counter tunneling, I'm sure you'll love this idea. Find ways to work around survivors trying to combat tunneling. Because you know its probably all they see. Their MMR pits them against constant tunneling, your mmr pits you against teams who constantly put you in worst case scenarios that you can complain about on these forums. Its a nice lil system :)

If this seems tinged with malice, it's not. But I am quite agitated that this post is even here. Is this really the next flavor of the month to hate on? We get a tunneling weapon, adrenaline nerfed, and now it's on to something else.

Anyway, your scenario's are niche and very rare, regardless of your supposed god tier mmr. It is NOT a reason to nerf survivors or killers.

"I also dislike the notion that DH is guaranteed or that the killer
doesn't have a power to use or that every hook is in a tight corridor. "

While
not guaranteed it's most often landed. Especially when used at a pallet
where it's a scenario of eat the pallet to the face or swing and eat
DH. Lose/lose. Having a power or not for DH is irrelevant. What does a
hook in a tight corridor have to do with anything I've said

Again, niche scenario. Killers should not always have a positive outcome, just like survivors. I was told if I was tunneled, I put myself in that position. Well, if this DH scenario is SO common for you, stop putting yourself in that scenario. Gonna explain to me how that's impossible? Am I not high MMR because 'I dont understand?' Oh, that's the next point, Im early lol.

'Even if the survivor does all of this in the scenario you listed, for
the rest of the trial they have two perks, that's more than a fair
tradeoff. "

This tells me you aren't playing at high mmr. The game
is generally lost at that point. You are downplaying how impactful even
1 UB or DS is on a trial, like heavily.

Or this tells us your mmr isn't as high as you think, since you're clearly given up already if you get UB or DS'd. Of course you're gonna lose. Its like a survivor killing themself on hook first down. And Im making this atrocious comparison because I get insane comparisons also. Like tunneling equals gen rushing. Of course it doesn't, but it helps keep the pot stirred.

This scenario isn't doomsday for the killer player. Its still very winnable. But not if in your mindset. I only play Trapper and when I get DS'd or the team reset without me even knowing, I don't toss my hands up and go 'Damn my high mmr.'

"And if you're implying that the game is lost after this, which would
only be the case in high MMR, then it can also be assumed that you are
playing Nurse/Blight with a meta load-out as well, in which this
scenario is not very significant as S-tier killers don't care. "

Why would that imply playing Blight/Nurse? What? That doesn't imply that whatsoever.

I primarily run B tier and below killers.

Yeah, not sure what this was about. Not going there lol. But I am curious! What killers do you run? Maybe that could explain some things for me lol. I dont expect everything I said to stick, as Im sure you have some good replies. I just want to see them :) Ty for the discussion!

my general rule of thumb is, if you bodyblock when you get unhooked while I'm trying to go after the attacker, I'm tunneling you out of the game. No exceptions

Anyone who says otherwise isn't being very truthful. I managed to do this build even with the current DS yesterday.

Bodyblocking doors especially wastes so much of the killer's time that they have no choice but to try and down+hook you because chasing their original target would take too long.

That's what bewilders me.

We're not advocating for tunneling, any sane killer who wants the game to be enjoyable for everyone would be happy if tunneling was less of a necessary feeling, but we're pointing out a problematic combination that does have a massive effect on the pace of a match and is being used in a way the perks weren't intended.

It's the same as 3-gens or facecamping was in my opinion. A problematic playstyle that was made worse with the right perk combinations. And even then, not all low MMR players have Decisive Strike, so buffing it does nothing for new survivor players being tunneled.

Yes, but it's likely that changing either of them will affect that ability.

Well that was an interesting take. Didn't expect you to be offended at all. Apologies.

I see DS about the same amount 1/4 or 5 games. Adding 2 is more like adding 40 because now they can W key it to a good loop and get a few loops out of it on top of getting a reset on DH.

I ignore the unhook and push gens. If the person that just got off the hook wants to come body block, that's fine. Between the time it takes for them to come to me and get into position to take the hit, they have burned a nice chunk of DS, add in the time for me to now chase them and get a second hit, and DS is mostly gone if not gone completely.

They go back on the hook, wasting all the time that they could of had just jumping on a gen after being unhooked. The person that I initially was going to go after lost a bunch of time on a gen due to having to run from me, and usually I can get a hit on them before the body blocker can get in position. Now the team is in a worse position than if the body blocker had just jumped on gens.

“Nearly everything you said I think is incorrect and no one who plays at high mmr would agree with.”

Why are you being so dismissive to anyone that disagrees with this as essentially just saying “you’re not good at the game”? You’re saying you want civil discussion, yet dismissing anyone that contends with it by stating they’re clearly not high MMR. Is it not possible that you’re hyperbolizing an issue to be way more apparent and dangerous than it truly is? This is how comp players play, not your average high MMR lobbies.

I'd add an aura or some other visible effect to show that basekit Endurance/OTR/DS is active and collision is off. The argument against it is that you can't bait a Killer into following somebody as a strategy and it shows who could be tunneled but the counter argument is that if you take OTR or DS and it deters the Killer from tunneling you it's done its job as intended and if you have to take a perk to avoid being tunneled you'll need to take it anyway regardless of a visual effect or not.

I can't remember if you had an opinion on my thread about anti-tunneling ideas but my suggestion had been slowing down gen progress while survivors are alive and speeding it up incrementally as survivors are killed to slow down the early game but make doing all gens easier as survivors are killed so getting all survivors or nearly all to death hook and then killing survivors would be more effective. That would reduce the effectiveness of tunneling and slow down the game so anti tunneling perks aren't as needed.

Another suggestion from the same thread (apologies to the suggestor; I don't remember who suggested it) was giving a pool of hook states so no survivor died until the 9th hook state. The effectiveness of tunneling would be severely diminished at that point. I like the suggestion; the reason why I prefer mine is because gen speed can be a major issue for Killers in higher MMR so a slowdown that encourages spreading hooks hits both and lessens the need to tunnel. They're both good suggestions in my opinion.

If tunneling is less effective then there will be less tunneling and that equates to less need to buff anti tunnel perks. That'll require some changes to mechanics though. In the meantime band aid changes such as reverting DS to 5 seconds are very much necessary.