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Why has Knock Out not been reworked yet?
For those that don't know, this perk makes it so you can't see people who are knocked down unless you get close to them. This specifically only counters ONLY solo que survivors who are already at a disadvantage against killers. Killers don't need a perk to make solo que survivors lives even harder than they are. I say this as someone who mains killer as well. Just fought a Wraith who was doing a bleed out build (which other than to troll I don't know why you would do this during a BP event. You also don't rank up as fast with a bleed out build). Every teammate D/C'ed and I don't really blame them. He even waited for everyone to bleedout instead of hooking them after he downed me and the 3 bots. Who wants to really play against this kind of gameplay?
If this killer played against a SWF he'd be at a severe disadvantage building around bleed out. Honestly a perk like this doesn't bring any good value to the game except for the .000001% of killers who enjoy playing a bleedout build. Can we please get a rework to this perk of some kind to make it something that isn't a solo que survivor value only perk?
TL;DR In solo que this perk is great and can be even toxic. In SWF this perk is easily countered and puts the killer down 1 perk (or more if he built around it).
Comments
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No idea. This is a perk that doesn't need to exist. I've literally only ever seen it used for griefing purposes. It does nothing positive for the game. It's not an option we need to give players.
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Agreed, ran into it yesterday with a hag just bleeding everyone out
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The only upside I can think is it's ability to hide where the survivor was downed. It's pretty good when paired with stealth to try and counter coordinated saves, unless the team is really good at callouts.
The slow crawl is probably the reason it's used as a grief tool and I do think that needs to go. Otherwise, the real issue is slugging out everyone. Knock Out just expands on it.
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they can probably give the aura blocking a duration so the killer can’t freely slug survivors
That way it can be a perk that helps killers who don’t wanna deal with flashlight saves
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Could tie it in to the 15 seconds, I agree.
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I think it should make it so after a m1 down, for 30 seconds that survivor, cannot be picked up in any way.
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yeah that could be a healthier change and maybe remove the 16 meter radius since it’s technically now an anti flashlight save perk and after 15 seconds it goes away
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I actually feel the opposite. I wish we had more perks like Knockout.
I like slugging in design. It's a high risk/high reward play style to build pressure. While weaker against swf, nearly everything is weaker against swf. Nearly everything is stronger against solos. This is a losing fight. I like that slugging gives a different play style option.
While less effective, on average I do still find it works decently well even against swf. Many aren't on coms and many aren't good at that specific of callouts like I'm at 12 oclock. Maybe you'll be lucky in a spot to callout like shack or main building. I ran a slugging build quite regularly against many swf with good success, even if it's less success than solos.
I think slugging is unfairly discouraged. I would always rather be slugged than hooked. The hate for slugging is irrational. There is objectively more you can do on the ground than on the hook. So the statement people usually have of slugging is boring, is to me objectively untrue. On the hook you're literally doing nothing and anything is more fun than nothing.Slugging also gives me a second chance at life.
This isn't even getting into the myriad of anti slug perks that exist.
The question isn't if it's more effective against solos than swf, the question is if it's too strong against solos. The game is balanced around solos. Is Knockout too strong against solos? I'd say no.
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100% agree, never had a positive experience in a match where this perk was not used to create a miserable experience.
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I'd like for it to waste a similar amount of time for survivors getting them up if we're making this change and a lot of the time wasted is looking for the survivor.
For 30 seconds they cannot recover or be picked up. After that 30 seconds there is a 30% recovery and healing debuff until picked up.
Now it has no blindness so it effects swf and solos the same and we're getting the slow down from getting off the ground instead of in search time for the survivor.
How's that sound?
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I'm not sure where this sentiment of it "griefing" people when its a valid, yet annoying, method of play. As a person who uses it, simply having a solo lobby with even one perk like Tenacity, UB or WGLF completely counters it. The strongest asset is it obscuring the aura but Bond, Empathy and Aftercare also ruin this. If anything its a single perk that can be thwarted by multitude of perks, so it's really just a perk variety issue.
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That's a nice idea, I like it
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yes this is what is called griefing for the most part
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I think this is what others mean by griefing.
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I'd say your suggestions are what others would call griefing.
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Then they'd be misusing the word griefing as that's not griefing.
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I’ve said this in previous posts but this is my absolute least favorite perk in the game. The value you get out vs the value you put in is ridiculous in my opinion. Not to mention In my experience I have never gone against a killer who used it that didn’t just bleed everyone out and hump their bodies at 4 gens. Kinda reminds me of old MFT how the value you’d get was crazy and all the trade off was getting hit once. Except this perk has been around since well…forever.
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If Decisive Strike becomes popular again, I plan on using Knock Out to try to punish baiting it, so I hope it goes completely unchanged.
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Call me crazy, but I think some people might call those suggestions griefing.
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the forum engine kept hiding my post so I didn't know where did it go until i gave up, then they appeared the next day. I agree it looks obnoxious, but it was not intentional.
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This perk might actually seem some use if DS OTR/DH WOO Unbreakable becomes the next Meta.
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No, it wont. It did not see use before 6.1.0, even when DS was way stronger. People who say this know will not even equip Knockout, because it is not a good Perk.
@Topic:
100% agreed. Knockout is one of those Perks which is mainly used to make the other side miserablee. It is not really a strong Perk and gets countered by SWF, but if not everyone is in the SWF and with a build around it, it can be really annoying. And the only reason to use it with a specific build is to annoy the other side. It should be completely reworked into a decent Perk.
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With how BHVR has been trying to restrict playstyles (Disincentivizing face camping, 3 genning etc) along with the existence of Background Player, maybe some Killer players might just opt to slug more often instead of the traditional down > hook cycle.
Learning when to and when not to slug when 3-4 Survivors are alive is one of the finer points of Killer macroplay in my opinion. However some players may just go for the extreme route and use knockout to compliment their slugging playstyle.
If you're extremely confident that this perk will not see much use, that's fine, I'm just sharing my train of thought
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Had the pleasure of dealing with Knockout slugger twice this week. in soloQ too. 1 survivor decided to crawl into a corner of a map and literally bled out there since i could not find her. While i was looking for this 1 person rest of the team went down and i gave up.
Healthy perk for soloQ for sure (sarcarm btw)
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Knockout is the only perk that allows Killers to turn the survivor's strategy of "Run into the corner, to waste the killers time and/or exploit areas without reachable hooks, while waiting for their team" against them, so reworking/removing it would only lead to yet another uncounterable playstyle….
It is annyoing though, that many killers use it to slug without reason.
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100% this.
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Yea what i really wanna see is knock out with the twins rework
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Knockout should not really work with Twins because it only applies to M1-attacks.
(Which is also a good indicator that the Perk really should get another effect because the original one is unhealthy, considering it is a Bubba-Perk which requires basic attacks for a Killer who can instadown with a Chainsaw…)
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Ive never used it didnt know it was only m1 thanks for pointing that out.
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original one is unhealthy, considering it is a Bubba-Perk which requires basic attacks for a Killer who can instadown with a Chainsaw…)
To be fair, Knock Out originally did not have the basic attack requirement, as it was originally created to work with Bubba's Chainsaw.
Not sure why it was changed.
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Maybe because they wanted to make it weaker (but then they should have just reworked it, since it is only used for griefing and I would rather have a decent Perk than one which never sees play except to annoy the other side).
Or they just wanted to remove the M2-synergy to create the Add On which hides auras when downed with a Chainsaw.
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Perhaps, though I don't think the original Knock Out required any changes. The original effect of just hiding auras was fine as it was, imho.
Or they just wanted to remove the M2-synergy to create the Add On which hides auras when downed with a Chainsaw.
Heh, that would be funny.
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Tbf, if I see someone use Knockout I'll just jump in a locker.
But yeah, that Perk is badly designed.. even more so than Noed imo.
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