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Hillbillys Slug Game
Hillbilly is insanely good at slugging for 4ks now and before his overdrive machanic. Are there any plans to add a chainsaw use cooldown after a hit at least? I think it would be a healthy nerf for discouraging insta downs only back to back
Answers
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Not any I know of, and shouldn't be nerfed at all.
Getting sawed four times is 100% survivor's fault, his chainsaw isn't something you'll get hit that often.
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I can’t recall a single game I have ever had a billy slug all 4 survivors. If this happens, the survivors SEVERELY misplayed, and most definitely does not warrant a billy nerf.
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Just sounds like bad teammates tbh.
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This actually happens often, about 3 times in my past 25 games or so a billy has done this. All they do is slug and snowball with overdrive and aura perks, its really unfair especially against solo q
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I'm sorry but why would we punish killers for survivors, that mess up this bad?
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I don't think they understand that killers don't want to chase, or play and especially don't want to be nerfed. They just want more and more to make it easier and easier. Cool down would be good. If exhaustion is a cool down a chain saw should have one too. Keep it even and such
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Slugging just comes with insane mobility. It's a byproduct we just have to deal with
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umm… what aura perks are you talking about specifically?
You realize it’s a 1v4 right? 🤦🏻
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If the Billy is that good to slug you all in 2 min with aura perks, do you really think you are going to win the game if he runs 4 slowdowns? The solution to this is already in the survivors hands, position yourself better and learn how to not get curved... Is pretty doable in my mind.
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What im saying, bubbas got a cooldown, why not billy who is far superior to bubba? His mobility is crazy good for slugging with infectious, gear head, lethal and discordance. It just ends games way too fast and its really boring to die to people who know and abuse it
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R u saying that slugging is difficult to do? (Its not)
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Nerf him curve!
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doesn't matter if it's "hard" to use the killers power stop trying to use that as an excuse to nerf him
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Ik how to avoid curves and i would expect my teammates to as well seeing as I get killers that are good but never good randoms, but thats off topic. The problem is his speed, he can catch you before reaching a fixed object or loop, which will let him hit you with an insta down, FOR FREE without even needing to know how to curve. Yes, billys who aren't even good do this, i looped a billy doing this on rancid for a whole minute and a half on a TL and haybales, it really isn't hard to do and theres not much I can do to hold them off for long.
I guess maybe a more fair change would be to allow insta downs only after a cooldown of sorts, high speed insta downs readily available always is not balanced, though that still wouldn't fix his high speeds for returning to previously downed survivors
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No, I'm stating getting hit by chainsaw is difficult for not low MMR survivors.
Then just get hit by lunge and stop running.
You can always stay on a tile indefinitely and billy can't utilize instadown at all.
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Good survivor or not, nothing to hide behind to avoid getting curved isn't gonna prevent a down
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Blatantly false. Just getting caught in a transition from A to B with no warning reasons proves you wrong. Then there are relatively safe tiles that are just 50/50s against Billy and even if you win you take the M1. This game is not binary like that.
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Now is the question why he needs a cooldown: there is no reason for your team to go down back to back, it's purely your own fault when you go down so fast. Discouraging a killer using his ability is just stupid, he has it to use it and it's not like he wouldn't have any counterplay.
So first of all: bubba doesn't have a cooldown in any way, it's the complete other way around, he can down 4 people at once if you're grouped up (what seems to be your mainproblem).
And second:
Infectious is only effective if you're grouped up
Gear head only activates 30 seconds after a hit
Lethal just activates at the start and gives a boost to auras
Discordance only activates if you're grouped at a gen.
So your fix would to just expect him to have discordance and/or gear head and just try to not do gens together (and try to do gens with okay loops near it), infectious doesn't do anything anymore in this case and lethal would only work on gear head anyways.
Bad mates is a thing not bound to the killer, you will probably be slugged by a trapper too if your team is bad enough. So that's no excuse to nerf him.
If you don't reach anything in time you were positioned badly or in a zone where a lot of the ressources are already used. The first one is your own fault, the second one isn't nessasarily your fault but is fair.
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I mean that would apply for a cross map maybe, but weren't you talking about curves? So curving around something? If you are completely in the open in a way that you cannot reach any tile within the roughly 5 seconds you get from Billy's chainsaw cooldown to him revving his saw and downing you again... Then your patching must have been atrocious... Maybe take a longer but less risky path? Because if you get downed here you took the risk and it didn't pay out... So it kind of is a missplay.
Also it is kind of ironic to say the game isn't binary just to say it is a 50/50 and you will get m1 hit at least no matter what, that sounds quite binary to me ^^
I dont know where people get the idea from that even a missed curve always gives you an m1, that is just bad patching in the survivor side...
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Because they are. They're pretending Billy not having cooldown isn't a problem or like Billy can't fly in at you from across the map without warning and could do so repeatedly. Even tried to say they'd probably get slugged by Trapper, who isn't even remotely comparable cause unlike Billy he can't just zoom across the map.
I bet if Sprint Burst had no cooldown (exhaust) they'd be crying for a nerf for that, though.
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The sprint burst comparison is weird... You would have to compare that to spirit rather than Billy, because Billy has limited control over the maneuvering of the saw, unlike spirit or a sprint bursting survivor. And spirit obviously has a cooldown for that reason.
Billy also has a charge time for his saw so he does not start sprinting instantly. Also what are you on about him not having a cooldown? He has 2.5-2.25 seconds of cooldown after his saw, where he gets slowed quite significantly, calling this no cooldown is not very precise and misleading. Billy's saw has quite some loud noises and you can see him coming if you open your eyes. I m not sure if you are complaining about getting curved around tiles or hit by cross map saws? Because getting hit by a cross map is rather simple to avoid...
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I'm talking bout when he flies at you from across the map, without warning and just downs you without chase. I've seen it happen. He can slug an entire team pretty easily if he knows what he's doing, what perks to use, dirty tactics etc..
Spirit can't instadown you with her attack, her ability doesn't take her that far, it's not that fast and you can hear it, she also can't see survivors while phasing. It's much more counterable.
Billy you'll hear for a split second before you have time to react, you're downed.
2.5 seconds is not much of a cooldown for the amount of power he has.
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He can slug an entire team if they have no clue what they are doing.. Hillbilly is and always was loop able, people just don't know how to... Look at good players and how they play against him or ask some comp players how they play against him and you will see really fast that he really is not what you make him out to be... If you get hit by a cross map you should have positioned yourself better... Less in the open or at least in a way that you can spot him.
Spirits power has much less counterplay than Billy's... She has full control over her movement, a good spirit will hear you regardless of what you do and will hit you almost every time she uses her power... There are many reasons why she is the 3rd strongest killer in the game, and Billy is not close to her in strength. Spirit can basically outplay every pallet or window in the game that is not a god window or pallet...
The sound of the saw appears from 40 m or so, which means you have more like 3 seconds to react to it, it is really not that bad..
Bruh, you are making him out to be some monster he just is not... He can be crouch teched, you can go wide or close against his curves, you can stun him, there are tiles he cannot curve at all and so on. He is really not problematic.
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Because it isn't, it was never a problem it will never be one. Getting cought by a crossmap is your own fault if you're not attentive enough. You can even dodge his crossmaps more or less easy, if you fake one direction he only has the option to try and go for it or chainsaw in a straight line predicting you will run back into it, so you have a 50/50.
And yes I said trapper can slug an entire team too, because he said his mates where bad. My point was that bad teammates are not a thing bound to billy, if they all go down instantly and your entire team gets slugged he was just better than you and/or your mates. A trapper could do the same if the people are bad enough.
Sprintburst is an entire different thing, alone the fact that 150 is not a speed a killer can reach without power, and even with blight and billy it would be near impossible to catch. You can't comprehant one of the strongest exhaustion-perks (btw only reason it's even strong is the fact it has a cooldown) with an ability that is not even hard to outplay.
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"Just Position yourself better!" Yeah, because we always know exactly where the killer is going to come from at all times and its not like we're not doing anything that requires us to be stationary like repairing Gens or unhooking a survivor, healing, etc.
Even Billy players have bragged about survivors not having time to react to his speed.
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And again the complaint isn't about loops, it's about when he's flying at you without warning from across the map with an insta down attack before you can even hear his terror radius.
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I was talking about both cross map and curves. Sometimes you just do not have the luxury of a safer path. You either need to unhook or pick up a slug right now or have to take a risk doing a gen in an area that has been cleaned out of pallets to spread out the game. The 50/50 thing was mostly referring to filler pallets. All it takes is for him to curve tightly so that you have to go wide to dodge and thanks to his short CD, and maybe he brought Thompson's Mix, too, that just might result in an M1 or more depending on how he zoned, where he stops the chainsaw sprint and the tile itself obviously. I never said 'always' by the way. I kept my comment concise, you inferred that. But, sure, why not lean into it, some tiles you just cannot play against him but it might be all you have.
What is not binary however is "he caught you when you did what you had to with limited information so that means you suck". He might just show up with Tinkerer and yours is the first gen to reach 70% and also the most unsafe gen on the map or even if it is not he might bodyblock your nearest/only safety net anyway in which case your 'misplay' was to not bring sprint burst.
And then there is Lopro… but that is not quite the topic.
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You can hear his chainsaw (except with one addon but that's something different), you know EXACT from which direction he's coming, it's insanely loud. And your problem with being stationary is exactly the thing why I said you have to be attentive, if you're attentive he can't crossmap you, you just go behind a tree and you survived, a tree is literally enough.
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It's a lot harder for Trapper or Bubba to down all 4 survivors. A lot harder. Especially for Trapper. If all survivors are downed by Trapper, most likely it's the survivors not being cautious enough. You cannot say the same for Billy. Not at all. Or even blight for that matter. Because I've literally seen him fly in and instadowned someone on a Generator so fast there was literally no time to react.
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That was just the survivor being very slow to react, there's no reason be crossmaped against a billy, he could've heard his chainsaw and therefore direction and hide behind the gen. It's really easy to dodge.
And yes it is harder for a trapper, but as long as the people know what they are doing you wont be slugged by a billy too. Bad teammates are not killer specific and will loose you the game, no matter the killer like I already told.
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Except she wasn't bad and looped him well during game, but in that moment we did not hear him til like a split second before she was hit.
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Probably the one purple addon that makes his chainsaw silent combined with tinkerer. It's a really evil combo for crossmapping xD
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I don't like lorpo either, as it tends to put survivors in lose lose situations... But yeah that's a different topic, however I really like the bump logic gameplay it enabled...that was fun, no clue if it still works.
Sure maybe there is no safer path, but why is that the killers fault? Other killers can capitalize on that as well? Huntress will snipe you in the open, another killer will spot you and catch you before you can unhook or what not. Or cleaned out of pallets is also not killer specific but a survivor error to dry out certain areas.
His short CD is 2.5 seconds basekit... That's quite alot and it would need to be a huge tile for you to not make it to the pallet... That alone is 10m of distance (+ the distance you gained on him while he was slowed down).
The argument how he zones is also interesting, because zoning is in the killers power, getting zoned might be a misplay on the survivor side..
It does not necessarily mean you suck, maybe you got unlucky, but in any case it does not mean the killer is broken just because you found yourself in a bad situation and could not do anything about it... Sometimes you just get unlucky with a barren map or something, does not mean the killer you play against is broken.
You can still hear his saw, unless he runs a certain addon... At which point you should already be super aware... And for the bodyblocking part... That's a point of perspective... Did he play well because he assumed correctly where you would and blocked that path or did you misplay because despite seeing how might block that path you still went there?
It is just that there are so many things you can do on this killer, and for some reason many people seem to think just because this stuff can work or works on them the killer is broken instead of asking why it worked and what they could have done differently. If you are in a complete dead zone with nothing around and you get caught of guard you should go down, it is a risky place to be in, no matter why it is risky, might be bad map rng or what not, but it has nothing to do with the killer, same with some of the other things you mentioned.
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But it does not do that much once the survivors figured it out, especially because of the 1 time use per Gen...
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Yes you're right, but he said before it's to hard to react to crossmaps from billy. It's only hard in any way with that combi (or any perk capable of giving undetacable or oblivious) outside of that it's really easy.
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Look, I am not saying he is super OP but he is very strong now. His mobility with the ability to instadown with just a little revving setup is quite the combo to begin with, in my opinion quite questionable design but whatever, and apparently easy to overtune. Yes, I do think he is overtuned. Tbf I never liked versing him. Blight just got his iri tag changed - just saying.
Most other killers do not show up with almost no warning because most cannot roam at mad speeds as he does. I do not mean after hook with BBQ but him abandoning chase and then showing up at a weird angle 3.5s later when HUD chase indicator was still wiggling 2s ago.
What are those 10m distance? I do not quite know what you calculate here and why you apparently consider his cd twice in favor of survs. Sure, survs do run 10m but Billy makes almost 5m during cd. Or do you mean 2.5s rev time + 2.5s cd? While charging Billy is only slightly slower than a survivor where they do run another 10m but so does he pretty much. So your distance estimate as in between surv and Billy is ~45% off. And sure, you can play safe every time you hear his saw and then lose because of it.
Amusing how much killer success gets attributed to survivor misplay as if they had barely agency or survivors had infinite choices. Yes, there are a good amount of surv misplays generally but those are not the point for me here. My point is his lethality and the random ######### he can do while eating all the pallets in a couple of seconds if survs play safe. If there was any form of ingame comms to manage risks I probably would not even engage in this discussion here. As it is now he has super easy instadowns and can show up anywhere almost anytime. There is a lot of lose-lose against him in soloQ.
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I didn't count his cd twice, but you make the 10 m anyway + whatever distance he lost on you while on cooldown for 2.5 seconds to get either into lunge distance or even start another chainsaw. That is indeed quite a lot.
I think Billy is great and one of the most fun killers to go against. I don't think he is over tuned, he just not as bad as he was when he had overheat... It is just that you cannot brainlessly drop any pallet you get to but need to actually loop the tile before just dropping the pallet.
Sure most don't have that kind of mobility, but while you are sitting at a generator you can still look around and track the survivor getting chase and maybe even the killer and therefore have a rough idea about where he currently is. Unless you are playing on an indoor map this alone should work fairly well and it is not like he has completely unobstructed patching towards you there are only limited options to end up right where you are sitting on the Gen.
Most killers work in way that the Survivor needs to make a mistake for them to capitalize on that, there are some exceptions, but ideally that's what it is. Making the survivor make a mistake is your goal as killer... You are trying to mindgame them or what not... Like what else is it you are trying?
The issue with eating all those pallets is that people have forgotten or never learned how to preserve resources, maps have been so loaded with pallets that it was never needed, but it is in a fact a skill and when you look at really good players they will preserve the pallet as long as possible. But this is where his curving has counterplay, you don't need to drop the pallet immedialty, you can loop the tile. If you just predrop everything you cannot really complain that there are no resources left on the map anymore.
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Mostly agree but hard disagree on the 'a lot of distance' part. You can run 10m during cd but all you get on him is ~5m as he moves at 1.84m/s during these 2.5s.
As to killers only (?) being able to capitalize on survivor mistakes: Seems reductive to me.
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Usually this is just how the gameplay loop is, both sides try to force the other side into making mistakes. I would say some killer can still get hits even if you did everything correct, for example legion in his power, but most of them require a misplay. Just think about normal m1 killer gameplay... You hide your light, moonwalk, whatever so to surprise the survivor and get a hit. Otherwise you will usually not get a hit on the safer structures.
The point is not the distance you make towards him, you are not trying to leave the loop, you can just loop it, your goal is trying to make it to the pallet... Where the killer either tries to curve you again or goes for an m1 in which case you can drop the pallet or take the hit in case you want to save the pallet. It is not about the amount of distance you put in between you and the killer but whether or not you can cover enough distance to reach a pallet or window. And most even stronger loops are just not that long... A long wall jungle gym has more or less 10 m between pallet and window... So if you play it correctly you will reach the pallet again... Most loops are just not that big for you to not reach it.
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Ah, yes. I was referring to him showing up out of nowhere and fairly even tiles. Well, yes, strong loops are strong; just not always accessible. I agree though. The distance thing however is why I think he is overtuned. It is just way too little for how spammable his chainsaw his and how much mobility he has.
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I don't think so, because the thing is even if it is spammable, if he does not know how to you can play the same loop for the entire game and not get chainsawed... Sure you need to take overcharge into account when deciding how to loop but other than that playable/medium loops are just Allright.
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If Nurse does not know how to play she averages the lowest kill rate in the game. What is this kind of argument supposed to tell me?
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She averages the lowest killrate anyway xD
My point was spammable is not an argument... Just because you can constantly use the power does not mean anything. Because in Billy's case it is loop able.
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That has nothing to do with the killers power 💀
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partly, but its mainly his kit
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I see this has become quite a debate, wonder when and what a dev or community manager would say abt it
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Nurse's skill ceiling is massive, you cant compare billy to nurse like that, as she ignores everything normal killers would have to go through
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A spammable power means more opportunities. Sure, bad players are bad but good players do get a lot of if or can quickly find new opportunities thanks to his speed. Other killers have longer cooldowns with lesser payoffs and fewer options. Now you might say those are undertuned and that would be fine but your refute is void. Oni has to make hard decisions in similar gameplay, Billy can do whatever.
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Onis power is, when active, way stronger than Billy's.. 180° flicks, no bumping and so on. I would argue that Oni is still stronger than Billy overall.
I think Billy's power gets balanced out by how hard it is to properly curve around loops, and the positioning against it is also not easy, you need to know what you are doing on both sides. Which is why I think it is kind of fair. I mean sure, you get more opportunities, but so what? Either you don't know what to do, then the other side can just do whatever or you do and then, if matchmaking worked the opponent should also know how to counter it by positioning themselves properly. It is not like every loop is just a 50 50 against Billy and eventually with enough opportunities you will get a hit. The repositioning can catch people off guard, but if you pay attention to your surrounding while sitting on a Gen it should be fine.
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I get it. You think the issues survivors have with him are balanced out by his difficulty. I do not quite agree. I am also not going back to discussing his looping.
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