General Discussions
General Discussions
'Every killer should be like Blight/Nurse'
With the recent Twins update can we all finally admit this is a dumb thing to say and admit that Wesker is a much healthier benchmark so BHVR stops with these reworks?
Comments
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Wesker is definitely not a healthy benchmark, imho. In fact, he is a good example of what to avoid.
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Were people saying this?
Honestly I did a killer tier list recently and more than half the killers were in A tier and it had me wondering if it's healthy for every killer to be so good when survivor is in such a weakened state rn.
I honestly think we're reaching the point for survivor that killer was at that prompted the 6.1 changes. I'm seeing the BP bonus stay at survivor later and later into the night lately which is absolutely wild to me.
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yeah i agree, bring back old spirit, forever freddy and bugged alien
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What's wrong about him?
I mean, beside his ability to tunnel with his 350 dashing speed on 92 speed of infected survivor.
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Everything, my friend.
He has a horribly designed power, and I would be happy to never see him again.
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This gripe seems personal. Wesker isn’t that bad on paper.
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I don't think it's that bad
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Might as well at this point.
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No
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All gripes are personal, my friend.
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I think Nurse and Blight should be excluded from all arguments not specifically about them.
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The PTB twins are definitely broken and definitely need an increase in hardness time after an attack, etc. However, it has been a few days since the update implemented infinite endurance on the live server due to OTR and other effects. If this bug(?)may be a message from BhBR that this level of strength is needed if it is to become a spec.
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This is wild to say given that Wesker is essentially Blight with 2 dashes and an absurdly high skill ceiling
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Every killer blight / nurse doesn't mean it should be easy
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Wesker was never a problem compared to other killers. Spirit for example still op no counter play.
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This is what the developers want. They want all killers to have a 60%+ kill rate. They want survivor to be as bad as it was at patch 6.1.
That is literally their goal.
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It would be better to say something like no killer that gets designed should be stronger than Nurse, because currently Twins is arguably the strongest killer, some people even say ever, as in "in the entire history of DBD".
The question is always for what group of players are we balancing? If we are balancing for the average player then there should probably not be a stronger killer than high B tier. If we balance for good players then maybe something like Wesker or mid to high A tier and if we balance for comp players then even Nurse Blight and Spirit are completely fine.
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If Wesker is a healthy benchmark for every killer then Huntress and Trickster needs buffs again because Wesker is definitely better than both of them by a pretty good margin.
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Everyone has their opinon. I literally played Wesker two times since his release.
- On PTB
- For Adept
Never touched him since. Heavily dislike him.
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Im sorry, but how do you make a Tier List and put half the Killers in A-Tier?
Not trying to be rude or anything, just I really don’t understand what basis you’d use to come to that conclusion.
For me, a lot of Killers are within B-Tier and C-Tier, obviously not the entire pool of Killers, but a majority are just “decent”, not bad, not amazing, just “decent”, which there is nothing wrong with that since Killers can be “decent” and still be viable given the right build.
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I can of course respect everyone's opinion personally on the killer, but you gotta admit game health-wise his power is in a very good spot
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In an ideal world every killer would be mid A tier in power level however, within the confines of what dbd is and with how many killer powers are designed it isn't feasible. Ontop of that ideal certain killer perks would be reduced ofc.
There are few killer designs I deem fit to be A tier or even inching into S tier: Blight, Plague, Oni, Wesker, possibly artist, Pyramid head(a coin flip here, but he has some glaring problems that could fix the unhealthiness of his kit) and Huntress. As far as I am concerned no other killers could be put on weskers level without feeling awful to play against. Even someone as beloved as demo being buiffed by 15-25% in all aspects would push him to a point of uninteractivity. Wesker outside of his infection tunneling bit is the best designed killer in the game imo, that's coming from someone who mains blight. Spirit, chucky and nurse don't deserve to be half as good as they are, they are just far too simple and strong to warrant their strength.
I would have put billy up here previously but honestly most billys just return to hook and trade which even when put into the highest level of play takes little macro to understand the timing to return. Within the span of a couple months they buff billys turn duration by 33% and remove the hug tech, both having very similar properties and both originating from an something unintentional.
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Suppose a question I would throw out there, who SHOULD be the benchmark?
I'm thinking somewhere between Wesker and Demogorgon. Falling around the Oni, Plague, Xeno kind of level?
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A-tier seems like a good benchmark and most people I've heard have said similarly. The only people who ask for Nurse/Blight to be the base power level are comp players because at that level A-tier killers are still kinda weak.
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Even comp players dont say that lmao
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Nurse and Blight are also reasons why some perks are weaker than they could be. Because old Pain Res would be no problem on Nemesis or Ghostface but put that on Nurse or Blight and suddenly its overpowered
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I completely understand not liking a killer. Different people like different things after all.
But out of curiosity, what part of Wesker do you consider unhealthy? I personally consider Wesker their best balanced killer yet. He has a good power in chase with (mostly) lots of counterplay, a bit of mobility, a form of skill expression that seems to make him viable across all levels of play and inbuilt second objective to buy him a few extra seconds.
The only parts of his power, that I would like to see changed are the ability to vault and sometimes get free hits just like that and his tunneling potential thanks to the infection.
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Except the tunneling, yes.
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- Nurse
- Blight
- Spirit
- Billy
- Artist
- Plague
- Oni
- Huntress
- Chucky
- Wesker
- Xenomorph
- Executioner
- Unknown
- Twins
- Singularity
Okay I misremembered it's 43% at A tier or above but that's still very considerable.
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You guys acting like Nurse and Blight are the same, but they aren't. Blight is storng, but counterable. He doesn't ignore windows and pallets and your own skill means a lot against him. While against good Nurse there is literally nothing you can do, only hope she will do a mistake.
Nurse? No. But Blight is orienteer, yes. Strong and counterable chase power, good map pressure, good addon variety. So yeah, every killer should be like Blight.
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Not every killers but some should be. Oni would deserve to be much more powerful he should be 120% speed to get first hit easier. His power should last longer too and he should have iri add on to start with his power. His 180s should be removed but turning speed increased then he would be good killer. I say Oni is B tier on console and even pc Oni can have hard time too when survivors play safe and have good map.
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I thInk a SLIGHTLY weaker Oni is the ideal standard.
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I am curious as to why there needs to be tiers in a game like this. I mean DBD is more of a party game overall. It's peoples mind sets that want to make it competitive. I agree make every Killer equally good. Bring them all up/down to what would be considered B tier and leave it at that. The fact that certain Killers have drastically different skill ceilings isn't doing BHVR any favors tbh.
Everyone will always gravitate to what is easiest, so what if you make all the Killers as equal in strength as you possibly can and the community can't decide and just goes with the power they like instead of tier BS. Then you have something. Not being able to imagine a future like this is a tell tale sign that a person's own mind is limiting their vision.
For example. Whatever you have to do to make Trapper as good as "SLIGHTLY weaker Oni" (as Pulsar put it) make it happen without changing his power too much as to not lose the identity of each Killer. It is very possible.
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With or without addons?
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Without.
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Ok. Thanks for clarifying that. Though, I do think that is a little bit low because Oni's potential can vary quite heavily. With a bit of luck you get your power early on and become quite a beast but with a bit of bad luck you find yourself on GoJ and only get it very late. Addons make him more consistent in that regard.
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Everything, my friend. For a hyper-mobility killer, his kit has way too much.
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I know I keep nagging but could you go into more detail? 😅 We have a few hyper mobility killers, that in theory have somewhat similar kits in the sense that they have a chase power, mobility and a side objective. Even current Freddy would go into that category, although he is weaker in every regard.
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I think that variety is the spice of life, and DBD as well.
I think it's good to have a lot of push and pull and variable outcomes. Nobody likes having matches with pre-set events.
Post edited by Pulsar on1 -
Hyper-mobility can be tricky to balance because of the way survivors have to play around it. They are powerful abilities, after all.
Hillbilly and Oni are good examples of well-designed killers with hyper mobility. Hillbilly has the charge time to keep in mind and Oni has to build up his power, but in return they are gifted a good power. That is fun, and fair.
Wesker in the other hand, is a perfect example of a horribly designed killer, for a power of that nature. He has barely any charge time to worry about, he can vault, he creates a countdown towards Hindered and he gets a notification of your location as soon as you get rid of the infection (which you have to do).
Even if you somehow play perfectly against him you will go down, because you will get slowed down and once you're fully infected he only needs to get you once, while not worrying about… well, anything. And it doesn't help that the few resources you can use against him are scarce, thanks to the map reworks.
He is not unbeatable, of course. No killer is, except for a Nurse who plays flawlessly. But I don't think his power is healthy for the game.
EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention his incredible potential for tunneling. As @C3Tooth pointed out.
I would be happy to never see this killer again.
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Thank you, friend. Now I see where you're coming from.
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I mean Wesker also isn’t an anti-loop killer (technically). So… that’s something, right?
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No problem, my friend.
Though I gotta say I am still a bit surprised he isn't talked about more.
When I came back to the game I thought everyone hated him. It was a shock when I learned that was not the case.
Yes, but it doesn't change much when his power is the way it is. In my opinion, every killer is better to go against than Wesker.
Post edited by GeneralV on0 -
I don't know, I'm so tired of getting absolutely nothing new or exciting on the survivor side for months and month. Anti-facecamp? Haven't seen a single survivor jump off the hook in my games yet. Anti-3-gen? Haven't saw eight regression events on a gen yet, only the higher base kick regression + removal of gen tap is apparent every match. New perks were between meh and so bad it's ruining the match if one player brings it (hello Weaving Spiders). Right now it feels more that the killer buff trend will accelerate. I bet when we get the roadmap for the second half of the year there's again absolutely no good news for solo players this year.
If they would buff every single killer to new Twins level and beyond, maybe even to the point that every single match is a 4k at 5 gens (maybe except when comp teams play against brand new killers with sub 100 hours), they would finally have to come up with something positive for survivors because there's nothing left to buff on killer side.
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That is an incredibly bold statement.
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Nah, it is just the truth, friend.
Wesker is by far my least favorite killer to go against. Never thought I would dislike a killer more than I dislike Ghostface, but here we are.
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that is exactly what is wrong. the healthy designed is a power that incentives tunneling and optimizes tunneling.
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True, I don't think infection should progress in chase.
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is it about the strength of the killer? Do you feel there’s no counterplay? What is it? I think facing Trickster is more irritating than Wesker because Trickster’s counterplay is basically a tall wall. Wesker can be juked relatively easily—even without pallets or decent loops. What has your experience with this killer been?
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Agreed. I hate going against Spirit, Blight and Huntress. Nurse is crazy strong but it's rare to go against a good one. Wesker is fun to face imo.
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