why does crouching in the open deny powers? not even behind cover
when i play nemesis, billy, demo, i cant hit a survivor right in front of me when they crouch, how is that not an exploit? so lame, it not like if they crouch behind a rock or something, why does the hitbox shrink so drastically?
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it is, but dbd players llike to use the word ´´tech´´ instead of ´´exploitable design failure´´ because it looks cool
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Im sorry but if you cant hit some one whos right in front of you with any of these killers its a skill issue
Crouch tech is basically a 360, a last resort.
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If you are in a situation where you need to use your power to hit the survivor, because it will close the distance before they get to a pallet or window, it is not a "skill issue" for the survivor to exploit a hit box bug.
I refuse to call it a tech, because it's just an exploit 100%.
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Yeah at shack blight is the only one with any counter play, you have to look down at the start of your rush and that allows you to usually hit the survivor doing the elevation bug stuff.
In general though I would never play nemi anymore because of how many windows remove his power.
Demo and billy are also affected too much due to the distortion of the survivors hit box in the open but they can play around it when it's not shack.
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I once got stuck on a survivor for a full minute while they were crouch teching as Billy. I just wanted to see if I would hit them but gave up after being stuck in place for a minute.
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I play Demo and perform well consistently with him. Didn't know this even existed until a friend showed me in a custom game. The cases where it's actually useful are few and far between, and I can't recall it ever being used against me in a real match. Demo's shred hitbox is already extremely forgiving so I'm fine with a rare miss if the survivor can pull it off.
Chances are if they changed this ranged killers would get away with even more ridiculous hits over tiles than they already do.
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Wasn't aware this was a thing but would explain a lot of my nemi games.
My question is why does ducking at a window even work against Nemisis. The tentacle physcally still goes through a survivor and would very clearly have hit the hitbox of them yet the game sais "na there is something else you can hit so you are denyed.". Easy fix would be change the priority of hits with powers like this. Basically priority would be Survivor first, then something breakable (pallet or wall), then scenery. Obviously survivor would only be hit if you hit their hitbox but its just stupid that now a survivor can jump a window and just crouch to never get hit. Anything that comes in contact with a survivor hit box should score a hit regardless of where they are.1 -
Otz got in talks with the devs directly regarding how nemi hitbox works, he even gives a hitbox animation example. If you look it up you'll find it.
Why you can crouch at a window and deny nemi power most of the time? Idk it's obviously dumb.
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A lot of things are broken with nemi whip. stairs is another big issue. This is why i play a M1 nemi build and only use whip for breaking pallets and walls.
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Oh im well aware of what crouch tech is, your wording makes it seem as if youre talking about back revving
EDIT: Youre also meant to be able to do so against Nemesis, otherwise there would be basically nothing you could do against his power.
Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
It is an exploid, they've already announced that they want to fix it as far as I remember. They won't ban anyone for it, so it's kind of a gray-area.
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lol
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The amount of scenarios where this happens can be counted on one hand. Its also not nearly as impactful as some other techs out there that are universally accepted. Urobending, Demo/Billy Slide, Drag Tech, Oni Flick, and the biggest offender of them all, (which some still say should return to this day) Sky Billy and Space Billy. There are more, these are simply the ones that come to mind.
If were going to be removing techs from the game we cant just cherry pick which ones. And I think we can all agree that getting rid of any of these techs would SEVERELY impact the skill ceiling of the game in general, and overall just make the game WAY more dull.
Crouch tech is fine, as stated previously it is basically a last resort to avoid a hit and just like a 360's, you can see it coming from a mile away. Only instance that should be removed is at shack since it can create a lose-lose scenario where you can crouch at the pallet, and regardless of what the killer does youre going down.
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To be fair BHVR has removed many of the previously accepted techs. Biggest one to come to mind was Blight getting all of his flicks removed and his hug tech is going away next patch. Also I do think sky billy and space billy shouldn't really be considered along with any of these other techs or exploits or whatever you want to call them since it had literally no use cases to beneficial, it was just a silly map geometry thing rather than urobending or crouch tech which has genuine applications in chase.
Imo crouch tech is slightly problematic because of how niche it is which makes it really confusing to a player who doesn't already know what it is and its a lot more "######### just happened" to have a chainsaw pass through a survivor on the stairs to thompson house than to have an Oni turn around mid attack. Like at least with the other issues they are frequent enough that someone can reasonably learn to adapt around them, crouch tech just affects specific killers on specific maps in a confusing manner. Crouch tech is a much more confusing and buggy interaction which is why its more problematic imo.
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Sky Billy is in the same boat as mods, most people used it for fun but there was DEFINITELY ways to use it to gain an advantage. I would know, since Ive learned certain rotations.
This is one of many, its just the only one I had recorded. To be able to get ontop of main that quickly is not just some small feat, it saves an immense amount of time.
Do I want this to return? Yes, it was fun learning these spots and was a way to express my knowledge and skill as Billy. In fact I want all techs to remain because all of them show some sort of skill expression, knowledge, and experience.
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THIS IS A SKILL ISSUE??? Bruh, if Crouch Tech is a skill issue on the Killer side, Blight's Hug Tech was a skill issue on the Survivor side.
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If you read one of my replies, Ive covered this (being shack specifically) and that I agree should go. getting rid of the elevation would not only help with this issue but it would most likely get rid of the trap shove spots as well.
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This isn't only in Shack tho, any down slope surface like Swamp ground, Stairs is up for Crouch Tech. Even Crouching slightly to the side of narrow passageways are up for crouch tech because Chainsaw Runs and Shred are forced to aim for the middle or collide with the crappy wall collision.
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Swamp is most likely the biggest offender in this case but even then its fairly easy to counter.
Its a last resort to try and avoid a hit just like a 360. All it takes is a little bit of patience
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I remember that spot too, though I mostly used it to sit on top of the buildings next to shack with insidious and iri brick waiting for a survivor so I could make them ######### themselves via silent hillybilly form the skys (wouldve been great if the batman skin was out for him at that point :/) but like even in that clip when you factor the time to climb up, get onto the vault, line it all up properly its neglibly faster than just chainsawing over then walking up the stairs at main, sure you might get the slightest edge from the element of surprise but the spot is in view of the gen in main and a survivor on it would just be watching you wondering ######### youre doing. Its the nichest possible secnario of there being a survivor on the stairs who doesn't see Billy getting up on railings and start reving while looking straight at them where you gain an actual sizeable advantage over normal play.
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This was used to patrol gens. You could easily scare off some one from the gallows, then get to main gen WAY faster than going up the stairs.
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"If someone uses an exploit against you, it's a skill issue." ~ @Shroompy
Sorry but no. This is just wrong. If there was an exploit, that allowed killers to glitch through walls, would that be a skill issue too because you should expect it and not go to any walls? They won't crouch, if you're just charging your power with Demo or Billy. They'll do it once the actual attack starts. At that point, you have no counterplay anymore. They might get a M1 afterwards (if they're lucky because usually in the duration of the cooldown, you'll make it to a pallet or window) but still you managed to avoid a hit (or even an insta down) by pressing a single button. There is not much skill needed for that and it's certainly not only a last resort because, if you know how to do it right, then you can do it pretty consistent.
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A 360 doesn't make your killer power magically not work
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The initial reply was me thinking the guy just couldnt hit some one right in front of him. I misinterpreted it.
As for the rest, I dont understand why a single Survivor tech to avoid a hit is an issue, when there are SEVERAL killer techs that are the sole reason why they can get a hit/down. I understand this is basically just "whataboutism". But it is definitely valid here considering theyre all techs.
Billy/Demo/Blight: Some objects and terrain dont have collision with Shred and Sprint, making them able to slide right across them. (Autohaven cars are a great example)
Bubba: Looking up or down to manipulate the attack hitbox to avoid colliding with certain objects/terrain. Showcased perfectly by looking up and having a Survivor standing right in front of you. (Same way how crouch tech works)
Legion: Having a Survivor blind you mid power causes you to exit your power, but not stun you. Used specifically when a Survivor tries to blind you at a pallet or window to kickly vault over it to get a down
Oni: Can go well above his turn limit
Pyramid Head: Can flick his power
Nemesis: Drag tech
Wesker: Urobend, very widespread yet no one gives a damn
Xeno: Can also drag/flick its power to a certain extent.
Chucky: Can go well above his turn limit
These are simply the ones that come to mind, and I know for a fact there are more. It is very clear that NONE of these are intentional, yet everyone is quiet when it comes to them. But all of a sudden a very niche and situational tech for Survivor gets shown to a wider audience and every one is losing their minds? Its been 8 years people, this is nothing new and I highly doubt any of you can tell me youve been affected by this more than you have any of these Ive just mentioned.
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The initial reply was me thinking the guy just couldnt hit some one right in front of him. I misinterpreted it.
Ok. Sorry for coming on a bit strong here. I think that a one button counter to killer powers, that is not specifically included in that killer's kit, is ridiculous.
I know of exactly 2 objects that Billy doesn't bump into (others have become a bit more forgiving but you still bump, if you hit them at the wrong angle). If they can find a way to fix this without ruining him again, then I say: "Go for it." One tile in particular has pretty much no counterplay against a Hillbilly in overdrive anymore (that one only exists in one realm though).
For Demo, I have never seen this but if there are objects that he slides off, then of course this should be looked into and for Blight… Well, Hug Tech was removed on the PTB.
For Bubba, I'm almost certain that is intended. They coded the chainsaw hitbox to behave similar to M1s. I find it hard to believe that was an oversight.
Legion's case is 100% on the survivor though. All it takes to avoid this is not blinding Legion while they use their power to vault over a pallet. I reckon that's similar to a CJ, which is considered fine by what seems a majority of players. Both can be countered by just not being careless.
For Oni we know that it's not intended and I have honestly no clue why it's still a thing. Unless of course, the developers consider it fine.
Pyramid Head's flicks are only possible for 1 frame. Doing that consistently is pretty much impossible and even then it has the same counterplay, that his attack usually has.
Wesker's Urobend should honestly be considered a feature. It doesn't give him anything he shouldn't have but it allows players to make his power work even when it otherwise wouldn't due to poor map design regarding his power. This has, again, the same counterplay that his power normally has because you should avoid the hit and not just hope his power becomes useless.
Nemesis' tentacle has the same counterplay despite the drag. Crouch behind an object or dodge out of the way (just maybe a bit more than only 1mm).
I don't think Xeno's flick is unintentional to be honest. It was a thing on the PTB, then it was gone for a bit (I don't think it was mentioned in the patch notes though) and then it came back. I don't see why this would not be fine. The counterplay remains the same. The drag is indeed weird and I don't defend that. I have no issues, if they fix that but please fix his other collision issues as well. There are still times where the tail pierces right through a survivor without hitting them.
As far as I know, Chucky can only turn 90°. I haven't played him since the nerf though because it made him pretty boring to me. Scamper into hit in my opinion is much less interesting than giving Chucky a chance to flick and maybe get a hit that way. Especially since the flicks had more counterplay. You could move out of the way he would hit whenever he couln't see you clearly. So there was a chance to mind game him.
The difference with pretty much all of these is, that you cannot simply react to a skripted movement, press 1 button and come out on top with nothing, the other side can do.
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