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So Devs.... you don't see ANYTHIN wrong with this...
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Response from killer mains and the devs who listen to them: "Dude it's a horror game, survivors are supposed to die just like an 80s slasher flick."
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For tunneling? Yeah. And I don't like that either. For M1 killers? Yeah. Try playing without STBFL and see how that goes. That's bad design.
However in this case, there were more than enough possible ways to counter slugging. UB was just one of them. There is only form of slugging that I consider problematic and that involves the number 1 slugging perk, Knock Out. But in that case, even UB won't help you.
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STBFL definitely isn't even close to necessary. Slowdown, sure.
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I’d argue the point of perks is to give a competitive edge. Niche perks are bad designs because their effects are inconsistent and unpredictable. Most players should select their perks by how reliably those perks contribute to winning a match.
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That's how perks become as overused as DH in its prime. If a perk is 100% reliable, then there is no reason to use anything else unless it's even stronger. So you create a meta that is very narrow in that only very few perks are ever used. This is what we see on the killer meta right now. Pain Res + Pop are very consistent perks and there is absolutely no reason to use anything different. Even though there are a lot of good options.
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This is the definition of just multiple terrible plays by the survivors at 5 gens remaining if killer is trying to mass slug you should just jump locker before down to force a pick up and slow him down. If I see multiple flashies hovering around my first down I'm just going to assume background player and know I'm screwed either way and slug the person hovering nearby.
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Yes but a META in and of itself isn’t bad. Every game (even PvE) has some sort of META. Weakening perks to disrupt the (survivor) meta just creates a game all survivors reliably have are map resources, which are also shrinking. I think people forget killers have supernatural abilities and perks. Survivors just have perks.
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See I think this too since survivors HAVE to have a chance at escaping right? The game wouldn’t make sense if the killer could win any game regardless of survivor skill.
The killer has to be like a mistake check on the survivors. Some killer players are more forgiving of mistakes than others, but at the end of the day the killer is the security role keeping survivors on their toes. Every game is the survivors’ to lose. Survivor is the more difficult role by far but isn’t that by design? It makes sense that escapes would feel more worthwhile too.
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What if they’re just a way to give people different playstyles regardless of maximizing their chances of winning?
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Then you’d see more variety in the top 20 perks for survivor and killer (but especially survivor).
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Oh sorry, I didn’t state my position clearly.
@Xernoton Mentioned that the point of most perks was to counter things that may or may not happen.
Then you said that you would rather see perks be used for a competitive edge. That people should pick perks by how reliably they contribute to winning. And that niche perks are bad design. I’m assuming you mean competitive design?
So you both have good points. But what if perks also exist for people like me who don’t care about winning or losing. People who care more about the role playing aspect of a perk? I have a lot of fun with niche perks more than winning/losing.
Again you both have valid points but perks are also valuable in ways that have nothing to do with competition. Not saying competition isn’t their primary purpose, but it’s not their only purpose of value imo.
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How is the game intended to be played? Yes the Devs want you to pick up and carry to a hook. That's why doing so is rewarded with BP and Emblem points. But, that doesn't mean you have to play that way.
Anyways, what perk could of solved this?
No Mither. :^)
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I agree that meta is nothing bad. But it's definitely not a good thing when the meta pushes everything else away. Would you like to see more Pain Res + Pop? I wouldn't. I also don't want to see more of the same perks on survivors. But for more perk variety, it's not enough to buff something else. Because in order for that something else to be picked over the existing meta it would need to be even stronger. Meaning, you now have just as many meta perks as before with one former meta perk disappearing into the void.
There need to be more perks that are good but not always perfectly reliable. Otherwise, why pick something else unless it's even better?
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Yea, I think the comments in the main post say it all.
Those survivors made so many mistakes, Billy was just taking advantage of that.9 -
Literally your own fault lol:
he downed one and looked around because there was a gen, you didn't hide well and got found and he downed you.
After that they instantly tried to heal you, so the billy knew where the last remaining survivors were.
It's your own missplay as a team, nothing more and nothing less. There's no reason for him not to slug.
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If you find enjoyment in a playstyle with perks that allow you to play in an off-meta fashion, that is legitimate and fine—and there will always be off-meta perks that enable this. But my stance on the core function of perks remains unchanged: They exist to assist players reach their win conditions. There are, however, many paths toward this (stealth, lone wolf, aggro, team supporting, etc).
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The killer meta has been and will always be gen slowdown. This is an enduring truth for this game. It is inconsequential what specific perks enable this because the killer meta will always be this strategy: Give me enough time to hunt and sacrifice survivors. The survivor meta is centered around extending survivability (lengthening chase time mostly). This will also always be true: Give me or the other survivors enough time to complete all generators.
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It used to be chase base as gen slowdown didn't really exist until Hag with Ruin.
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So this explains WHY when you get to high MMR... You only see Nurse, Blight, Spirit, & Wesker buddy. In a 4v1 game, how does it make sense that essentially the power role is weaker? If Docktah plays a PERFECT game vs PERFECT survivors... He loses EVERY SINGLE TIME! How is that proper balance?
Nurse is skill... Period. A God Nurse wins because of her skill. Where do you see them? The highest .01% oh player base. That's why balance is bad. Wraith only stands a chance at winning if survivors goof off or mess up. If they don't…he loses every single time.
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I really don't like the argument "if you and your opponent play the game perfectly…" because nobody plays perfect. Games where you think you played perfect, you made mistakes you just didn't notice. Games where you think your opponent made mistakes, you either weren't around for them or you failed to capitalize on them. This is coming from someone who used to say "if a nurse player plays perfect she always wins," I no longer think that's a meaningful argument for that exact reason.
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But he did hook all the survivors. Just not in the manner you'd like him to play.
You keep saying "as intended". You can therefore show a post or other reference from BHVR stating that what you're saying is indeed as they have intended us to play the game? Oh, and "it's obvious because…" is not evidence, it's just assumption.
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Explain to me why at high MMR... You only see 4 killers then?
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Well, there's no real way of knowing if you're in High MMR or not, but the 10k+ hour streamers I follow regularly see at least half the roster, so I would imagine that's just incorrect
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So based on this logic, because the professional players play most of the roster, most of the roster is fine? Trapper is just fine and can actually deal with COMPETENT survivors?
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The thing is everyone is high mmr because the soft cap is super low and hard to get below. You have a wide range of skill levels that co exist in the same skill bracket.
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All the more reason the argument of "what happens at perfect play" doesn't matter; you're getting a huge array of skill levels in the "top bracket"
I mean you were the one using "gets played in high MMR" as a balance metric, not me. All I said was that discussions of theoretical perfect play are pointless
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The billy could have picked up the first person they downed after downing the person recording the video. So yeah they were slugging for the win at 5 gens, which is a thing you can do. It's excessively sweaty, and imo kind of trashy in pubs when the game just started, but you can play the game however you want. I personally think it should be fixed but devs seem to think otherwise.
As for the video itself yeah there were a lot of mistakes from the survivor team. I think one thing that wasn't really mentioned is Ada got unfairly destroyed by default console bindings by the look of things, otherwise she could have finished that heal after dropping the pallet instead of slowvaulting it.
As a message to OP, I would stray away from fun builds and focus on meaner ones if you want this to happen less often. Playing around flashlights will cause this to happen to you, other niche builds just mean you have less perks and resources to deal with the best and least fun killer strategies (slugging, camping, tunneling). It is unlikely that things will change anytime soon so in the meantime put on a toolbox and bring strong perks so that killers that do these things aren't as likely to win. If you're solo queue, this advice also relies on your teammates being competent and doing similar. This is the sad reality of the current state of dead by daylight.
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