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Does Sadako do Anything?
Genuine question, because I'm not sure her power functions. I can teleport around thirty times, focusing down one survivor holding a tape which should passively build condemnation, and nothing happens. It's possible I just don't even know how the killer works anymore after at least two full reworks, I'll admit, but it feels like something should be happening. Is she bugged, is she just bad, do I not get it?
Comments
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There is no penalty in having tapes, and tapes doesn't protect anyone from condemn
Basically she has been completely dumbed down and pretty much lost any power she had
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Not really. Sadako seems to be a lost cause because she will either be useless or too strong due to condemned. The First Sadako wast to weak and the Second was too strong ( SoloQ issue ) and then they tried putting the two versions together, which didn't work out very well in my opinion.
It depends on how people want it. a killer faithful to the lore and fun to play but weak or a strong killer not very fun to play against if it depends on the strategy we all know. I find it very difficult to make both things happen in a way where people won't abuse.
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Honestly I believe first sadako was actually stronger than what we have now due to addon difference
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I played Sadako on release. Honestly, as she is now is fine, release was horrible. But you need to use all of her perks and a generator related perk, like Mindcage from Demogorgon, to get use out of her because vaulting is a particular weakness of hers. She is a very fast moving Killer but not very agile in terms of Vaulting or stuff like that. She needs to hit hard, fast and stay on someone like Victor when he finds out they have candy.
Another thing, is she should have the ability to turn on a TV when coming into contact with it. That is just par for the course of her lore; she can psychically use and abuse technology.
A mixed bag in my opinion, she needs some buffs to her speed and to turn on TVs that she should be able to see are disabled. Some add-ons that interact and benefit use of Condemned. But that's it really.
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After the latest rework, Condemned is not really a concern on the Survivor side; it builds slowly, it has a hard cap on how much can be inflicted in a given timeframe, it can be removed while also turning off TVs to deny teleports, and by the time you build Condemned enough for a kill they are either opening the gate or you could have 3-hooked them anyways.
With that said, she is basically a sidegrade to Wraith. They both get invisibility on demand, but Wraith moves faster while cloaked and Sadako can teleport while cloaked. Wraith gets a speed increase after an uncloak; Sadako gets an add-on that slows Survivors down when she exits her cloak. Wraith is less visible at a distance but very visible while uncloaking; Sadako flickers in and out at a distance but this also makes her uncloak animation difficult to read.
Post edited by Null_Winter on2 -
It's not your imagination. Her last rework left her in garbage tier. The Condemn in its current state is near useless bar a little bit of slow down. While at the same time having no anti loop, not a real stealth killer and the survivors control her map mobility. It's bad.
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she´s literally female freddy, literally
-tp next to gens (sadako´s one is better)
-lullaby (freddy´s one is better)
-passive phasing (sadako´s one is better)
-weak anti-loop (freddy´s one is better)
-survivors can deny your power by interacting with a secondary objective for 1.5 seconds
both of them can win games like every other killer buuuuuut…… you know
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Sadly in this version it‘s up to the survivors wether you can use your power. There is no drawback for turning of TVs.
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If you haven't played her much at all since her 1st version before she started getting reworks done to her then you may potentially be still using Iridescent Videotape on her which effectively removes her Condemn. There's some people who make mistakes like that so it wouldn't be the first time.
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Current version with no addons involved works like this:
When teleporting, any survivor within 16 meters of a TV gains 1 stack of condemned and that TV turns off for 45 seconds. Survivors can see TV auras within this range as well. When a survivor takes a tape, they get no condemned, a TV furthest from them is assigned as their dropoff point for their tape and turn the TV off for 70 seconds for both taken and inserted TVs. Survivors can also turn off TVs that aren't their target but gain a stack of condemned for doing it, though I don't remember how long those TVs stay off.
Hooking a survivor locks up to 3 condemned stacks per hook stage, meaning those stacks cannot be cleansed through tape exchanges post unhook.
Sadako also has a lullaby when demanifested and cannot be stunned by pallets/head on while demanifested.
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She's in need of another rework unfortunately. I have an idea for it, but with all these posts about her I dunno if it would just be terrible timing or not lol
Here's the current state of Onryö':
- You have an invisible 10 second (I think) timer between when Survivors can gain a stack of Condemned from Projection. (Spamming it gives you nothing).
- Survivors holding a tape suffer zero negative. (Unless you use an add-on to give all other Survivors a stack of Condemned when hooking a Survivor holding a tape)
- Onryö can Lock In Survivors Condemned at a maximum of 3. (It locks in at 3 even if they have more condemned than that, so hooking them once is the only real incentive - since getting them on more than one hook stage is equivalent to their Condemned getting close to full 7 stacks)
- Zero anti-loop capability (outside of add-ons and perks. Makes her a pushover in chase)
- Noisy even in stealth (means you can't sneak up on anyone)
Honestly, if you are going to play Onryö 3.0, you gotta be prepared to have very little input with your power. You can only really utilise her full kit on Midwich with a build dedicated to doing just that too.
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you picked wrong time to be playing this killer.
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The tapes don't passively build up condemned. That's an OG thing that got removed.
She's good in the right hands. Okay killer.
Main her.
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Well, from what I've gathered since making this post, her only significant ability is her teleport, something easily disabled by survivors. She has no stealth, chase potential, or even really relevant map pressure if survivors are even a bit proactive. Where does her potential come in—why main her over killers with better versions of her tools, like Pig, Wraith, arguably Freddy?
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I main both Sadako and Pig.
Sadako has chase capabilities. Demanifested Mindgames and no pallet stun is something. With the bloody fingernails addon, even post tp speed can often lead to hits. It's small, but it's unique and it's there. Don't underestimate it.
The second part of why one could main her is condemned. A tool, that can be extremely oppressive at best and good slowdown at worst. In terms of slowdown, it's worse than pig. In terms of lethality, it's a lot better than Pig.
If played at her best, Sadako can be really strong with the focus on condemned. Explaining all the intricacies of this mechanic would take a long time to explain.
In a tier list, I would put her right next to Pig in c tier. Above wraith, Ghosty, Freddy, Trapper, Myers and some others.
She's good, she just requires a lot of time to learn and some addons.
If someone goes against the top survivor squad, most killers fall flat. Sadako is no exception. This is sadly how this game works. Against most public survivors though, she's very decent.
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This is wrong. You can spam it.
Her anti loop is on the weaker end, but it does exist and works. Also wrong.
You can absolutely sneak up on survivors.
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Disagree.
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I think Devs won't update Sadako again anytime soon, they've gone back and forth on her design and still can't get it right. At this point it's easier to just assume they've shifted their attention to other reworks or new content.
The Sadako 2.0 patch always felt more like the devs humoring Nicholas Cage (If he really loves Sadako) than them looking at Sadako's stats and deciding she needed a buff.0 -
Sadako is a hit-n-run killer. Forcing Condemnation is a waste of time, imo.
She requires your fundamental killer to be solid. You need to be able to tell when you’re taking a bad chase, so you can dip out and go harass survivors working on gens.
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So she has extremely small amount of everything and pretty much all of that can be fairly easily countered by decent survivor skills
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Wouldnt go that far, no.
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If you’d like to elaborate why we can go into examples. I see that above you put her in C tier, C tier in dbd is trash tier. I’d argue C tier is generous anyway though.
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You should not be able to sneak on survivor if they are not deaf or if they have the visual terror radius activated if they are not blind.
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Did you read what I said?
I didn't say you couldn't spam the Projection, I said there is an invisible cooldown between when a Survivor can gain Condemned after a Projection. So using it, then using it again instantly won't give Survivors 2 stacks of Condemned.
She has no anti-loop ability. The add-ons for intermittent invisibility duration are the only things that give her a chance in the loops where there is no mindgame for M1 Killers. And you need perks to weaken loops to give yourself a chance at getting hits quicker too.
She has a droning audio that you can hear while she is Demanifested. Survivors can hear that too when she gets close. Meaning they can hear it and run away before you get to start Manifesting. Some people will get caught out coz of louder than usual map ambient sounds. Or not playing with headphones etc. But in general, she suffers with the same pseudo-stealth that Chucky does, where they have no Terror Radius or Red Stain but makes audible noises that everyone can hear if they're close enough to them.
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I'm sorry to say this, but what you keep saying is still false-
They removed the cool down on Condemn gain shortly after her rework and you can 100% spam Condemn on the survivors. I had a friend help me test it and he got fully Condemned right away at the start of a custom game just by me spamming TVs.
Also she has basekit anti-loop with pallets. Due to the fact that she can bloodlust while Demanifested again where she has stun immunity from pallets and Head On she can safely chase you around pallets without any care at all and, ever since her semi-recent buff, she doesn't suffer any penalty for doing this now since she no longer becomes slower than a survivor while she is in the middle of Manifesting. In other words, she has base-kit anti-loop.
You are correct though about her stealth just being plain bad. Her lullaby isn't always the most noticeable of things unless you have a very good headset and cranked your game volume up pretty high, but with the Visual Terror Radius being in the game her stealth just gets completely destroyed into pieces then thrown out the window because a lot of people play with that setting on now and even if you can't hear her lullaby you'll just see the Visual Terror Radius pop up the instant you're in her lullaby range. If they were to swap out the Blindness effect on Mindbreaker with the Deafened status effect instead then this problem would be fixed by that perk(which is a decent perk for stealth killers anyways) since Deafened makes it to where all audio is muted essentially which, theoretically, should bypass the Visual Terror Radius setting and would just mute her lullaby.
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Calling her Demanifest anti loop..is a stretch at best. Base kit Endurance isn't anti loop and that's also ignoring the fact that you still need to Manifest, it's not just break the pallet and hit. If you're bloodlusting at loops you're losing already. You can't afford chases long enough to where you're bloodlusting. Her Demanifest "anti loop" is F tier if you were comparing it. I would say for us to even call it anti loop is a bit disingenuous, it's that bad.
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On midwich? Yeahhh
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I've done it many times and it's worked out well for me on an average of like 8/10 times.
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I'm gonna test it myself. I don't like blindly believing anything on DBD lol but to save myself the time, if there is a patch note that specifically says this, can you link it here?
Having stun immunity and bloodlust while Demanifested isn't anti-loop. Anti-loop is a classification of when a Killer has tools in their kit which allow them to get hits quicker before a Survivor safely plays around the tile for prolonged periods of time (Doctor and Clown are the best examples of this).
Not having a Wraith level of stealth combined with her lack of an anti-loop makes it so she isn't in control of a match. If you can rarely get a quick hit while stealthing around the map, you're gonna have a hard time downing anyone in any meaningful time.
You either have to use 50% bonus Projection speed. Or use both intermittent invisibility add-ons to actually get hits utilising her kit. Otherwise you're a pushover M1 killer.
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The devs clearly don't want moris that bypass hook stages to be a weapon Killers use, they want it to be a punishment for survivors that mess up royally. Current tombstone nonwithstanding, they've been actively trying to prevent play styles based around giving people fewer hooks to work with without giving survivors meaningful ways of preventing it. Honestly I agree with that philosophy. The game was made with 3 hook states in mind, a mori at 0-1 hook states bypasses this core balance consideration
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Against good survivors it does nothing.
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The problem is she has nothing else.
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If you think of only the potential that condemn has as an offensive weapon and ignore the passive slowdown, maybe.
Also a global tp isn't bad
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It was removed in Patch 7.5.1 when they made this change:
"Reversal: removed the previously added Cool-down to the Power Gauge that affected the application of Condemned when using Projection."
That cool down was about 8-10 seconds and it was removed and even in the official patch notes the first thing that pops up for her is this in quotes: "Removed the Condemned cooldown"
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A mediocre passive slow down and a tp that survivors can control. That's it.
Does that sound good to you? Or fun for that matter.
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I mean yeah it's not great but its better than a lot of people give it credit for & I think the only reason it seems so bad is people want the condemn to = a free mori at 0 hooks
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She has the teleport, the condemn and some mild stealth abilities. A little bit of a few different powers really.
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and rightfully so!
That anyone thinks Sadako is “garbage tier” is a garbage take!
…We’ve heard many of those takes from certain players.
You’re absolutely correct, vs experienced SWF she’s no exception to the fact that as with most Killers, a experienced player will usually end up with 1-2K (master Killer players still 3-4K).
Also totally correct that “This is sadly how this game works. Against most public survivors though, she's very decent.”
Yes, Sadako still can still easily average a 2-3K in SoloQ, while those master players easily 4K stomp SoloQ w her.
“If played at her best, Sadako can be really strong with the focus on condemned.”
Yep, and some players just can’t learn or perfect Killer powers, and want everything as easy as it can be made for them. Unnecessary Buffing of Killers for this reason makes DBD extremely boring the expert and master Killer players.1 -
No, they want a mori that doesn't require 2 hooks, as at that point the mori is irrelevant. Also, the word "free" is disingenuous. You know it's not free.
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It was my impression she needed Bloody Fingernails to get some pretty serious chase potency, but the main thing with Sadako is she is a little unintuitive, and doesn't play like you'd expect her to (a bit like Singularity pods doent work for holdimg gens, it takes a different mindset to what you would expect).
Sadako in my experience seems to be a killer you don't commit to a survivor until you score a down like most killers, instead you keep dancing around the map and keep wounding and pushing people off gens, taking a hit or a strong pallet, then leaving... do not bother trying to catch up and secure a down, you waste too much time.
The logic is each survivor can only disable 1 TV at a time by grabbing a tape. Once they have grabbed a tape they have to go get rid of it before they can grab another one... so your strategy is to keep wounding survivors, and keep going back and pushing people off gens... this burns out the timers on the TVs so now survivors start getting condemned.
You may be thinking "but that TV is disabled", and this is true, but there is rarely not another gen nearby with a TV that you can port to, and your small TR with that bit of stealth can let you keep getting close to score hits, or at least burn resources.
This starts a chain reaction effect where survivors are wasting a lot of time healing, dealing with condemn and slowly chewing through their resources where the simple demand on their time starts to snowball out of control, and it only takes one misjudged decision to get rid of a tape and suddenly you can get a lot of pressure.
She's a bit weird, and I'm not good enough to say whether she is effective against good survivors or not... but this is the method of play that works for me.
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I don‘t want a buff I want just as many would say bad Onryo 1.0 she was a lot more fun and if she needed anything, it were the QOL changes and buffs from the reworks, but not the actual rework parts.
Also it‘s true, that survivors have full control about how good/much you can use your ability and Tv auras are too much it makes her chase a lot worse than it could be.
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Can someone tell me what is the purpose of holding the tape? Should I turn off tvs whenever possible near a gen?
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The tape is for cleansing 3 condemned stacks each time you put it in the target Tv and you can/ should turn off all TVs. If you carry a tape you can decide to turn off additional TVs for one stack. Holding a tape does nothing by it self.
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I felt the fact I was being hyperbolic when I said "free" was pretty clear so I guess we're even.
Getting back on topic, I will once again reiterate that I agree that Sadako's power is underwhelming- as I have already said. I just think the statement that OP and others have made - that they think the power is not functioning - comes from an expectation that the power ought to reliably be usable to bypass the core mechanic of hook states, which I think is unhealthy for the game. Furthermore, I think the assertion that her power "doesn't function" is equally hyperbolic to my saying that people want a "free" mori. I can only speculate why you objected to my use of hyperbole and not the OP's
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Sadako has a power that if you know what you are doing, you can completely delete in it's entirety. There's a reason alot of us Sadako players are extremely vocal about how bad she is right now.
Condemn can be prevented and cleansed extremely easily with 0 downside. Doing this also deletes her teleport. So you're a M1 killer who can remove her terror radius for a directional lullaby with a speed boost when you come out a TV assuming there's a TV on to come out of.
On midwich however you're the best killer in the game.
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"that the power ought to reliably be usable to bypass the core mechanic of hook states, which I think is unhealthy for the game"
I fundamentally disagree. That's what makes playing as and against her actually feel like a unique experience. Far too many killers are nearly the same with a different coat of paint thrown on. It's so different playing Onryo from anything else.
" Furthermore, I think the assertion that her power "doesn't function" is
equally hyperbolic to my saying that people want a "free" mori. I can
only speculate why you objected to my use of hyperbole and not the OP's"That's an easy answer.
"Free" is just objective hyperbole with no merit.
"Power not functioning", while full of hyperbole as well, actually has "some" merit. That merit being you're generally never getting Condemn unless they're already dead on hook or just playing really, really badly.
The point being "free" doesn't have a point because it's never the case, while "power not functioning" has one, even if it's exaggerated, because the core point behind it, is that the power is weak. Which it is.
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I mostly agree with Radiant about the state of Sadako. In the right hands she can be pretty good and she just requires some learning. I'm not the best Sadako since I don't play her all the time(Im a legion and Xeno main) but I do have fun when I do play her. I play decent enough that I can usually get 1 or 2 kills every match(one usually being from Condem). I will say I would like to get better at her but right now Im happy with where she at right now.
Saying all that there are a few small things I wish devs would do for her. Some of her add-ons really need some love and could use buffs, I still think survivors are given way too much free info on where TVs are and if they are on or not, and I think tapes should return back to 2s insertion since I think 1s is way too fast. Other than those I wouldn't do anything else to her.
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I don't necessarily think that the power should be able of super easily bypassing hook states for a mori within 1 gen, it's moreso that every other part of her power is so incredibly limited it seems like condemnation would wind up being the only place left for the power to inform any sort of gameplan.
(Also, I am glad my love for hyperbole was acknowledged. I love making everything seem way more intense than it actually is.)
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Yeah, Devs overthought her rework, and the end result is what it is.
I’d love OG Sadako back too
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