Concerns about the game
We love your game BHVR, we do, but things are getting so bad with your decision making.
You literally have so many people on forums, telling you what is bothering them, what is unbalanced or even annoying to go against and yet you do nothing in that regard.
There is so many problems right now…
- Tunneling is out of hands, which makes it miserable for surviviors.
There is 4 surviviors and 1 killer, and for that one person games are miserable for 4 more.
People mostly play with their friends, and the bad one is always tunneled out, making it impossible to win for survivors. It's so bad to the point, that our friends never want to play dbd with us, veterans.
New people don't have access to perks that are crucial to survive against tunneling killer, they literally need 3-4 characters to have a chance in this situation - the most important one is Laurie with DS which you need to pay money for the licence - people don't do that until they really like the game. - Grind is too much of a problem for new players.
Someone did the math, you need nearly 2k hours playtime to unlock everything in the game, that's a lot. - Survivior role is being killed slowly but surely.
Surviviors are getting so many nerfs - to items and perks.
Burning mechanics should be more developed, not killed - it was a way of skill expression and coordination with other people most of the time - it was a real counter to nurse, which we needed.
There were things that needed a change, like healing speed, with some of that changes we agree. Good job on that. - There is too much power giving to the killer.
Yeah, new killers are getting mechanics of hitting surviviors through the palletes and windows, the only counter to getting damaged. This is one of the reason that there is so much unbalanced between the killer rooster - that's why no one wants to play m1 killers. - Hit validation is terrible.
Too many hits behind the windows, pallete hits that should never land, bluetooth hits which should never be a thing - people are reporting this very often and nothing is being done to that issue for so long.
I get it, playing killer is not easy, but why are killers having their hands held for so long now?
Also… techs removal - why?
Let people have those 180 flics with oni, blight, chucky… it's not easy anyway, you need to put work into learning it. Why are you getting rid of it? It's funny how "not intended features" are the best features in the game.
I want to be killed/damaged by all those techs! Because i know that i died to a skilled person, which doesn't really make me mad.
Games are so dull now, you can't make fun plays anymore. There is only two scenarios which are available in game, either you do gens fast enough and get 3-4 escapes or you don't and you get stomped by 500 hours killer - how in the world is someone with 10x less hours is able to stomp on my lobby just because he found the weak link and got rid of him fast?
Other topic is balancing the game - how is nurse still in such state at 2024? After years of moaning from the community she still doesn't need to care about core mechanics of the game? This is ridiculous, really.
Blight is so strong with correct addons? You nerfed a few but created double pink addons which makes game so easy and is miserable for opponents?
Don't make me start on new twins, which are the worst killer rework of all times.
You are designing game which only 20% of lobby will be satisfied - killer for winning the game.
Change your priorities behaviour, take actions to the things that concern your community the most at the time.
I would love to see more surveys about game balance - give us the opportunity to express our feelings and let you know about things that bother us!
Don't make those surveys long enough for us to spend 20-30 minutes aswell.
Give us platform to be in better touch with you, after all we are the community that spend unimaginable hours to be a part of your community.
And yes, I know that my post is mostly survivior oriented, but i didn't want it to make long enough to be forgotten and lost in the forum's pit of darkness.
Hope you have a great day!
Comments
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I do agree with most of it, however Nurse is in a fine spot and she is one my favorite killers to verse, just because playing against her is completely different than against any other killers. Going edge map against Nurse is actually a viable play and can make you last quite a bit longer. With additions of edge map tiles on some maps I think she is perfectly fine, however maps should be a bit more consistent with spawning high wall tiles, not just against Nurse, but also against trickster or Huntress... Because being out in the open with no cover against those two just offers no real counterplay. (against trickster it is ofc worse than against huntress... Dodging a few hatchets is finde, dodging 50 knives is not.)
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As for the m1 killer part, when you have a few thousand hours you tend to be kind of fed up with M1 gameplay, so using killer powers more often is OK. The issue eith getting hit through walls and such without proper tells is a bit weird though. I don't know if intended or not, but the last few times I played against unknown I did not get a visual or audio tell that he is currently aiming his power...
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Only counterplay against nurse is losing line of sight, that's the problem.
Also there is no losing line of sight if map is empty.
I just think that killer should never be able to teleport behind walls, palletes and windows so easily.
We just need more counterplays, like do not let them teleport through palletes and widnows and also give some radius to those objects (like 2-4 meters wide circle maybe?) that block her from teleporting.
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Well, they were trying to fix that and they did amazing job - the problem is that they reverted it quickly, because killers couldn't get easy hits anymore and needed to put more skill into damaging/killing surviviors.
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More killer buffs and map nerfs on the way.
Survivor is only going to get worse to play.
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- I think the increased tunneling is a consequence created by behavior trying to eliminate frustrations for survivors. Like there was camping, slugging and gen kick. Now the only play stile left is tunneling or chasing different people and being honest most people will just take the easier way. In my opinion those other things were good, because they added variety to the matches (shure they could be frustrating) and made this game less stale. I also don‘t like tunneling, but I also don‘t want another new system like the other two, who make this game more boring. I just want anti gen/anti camp systems removed/changed to not distroy those playstiles, then tunneling would also become less.
4. I don‘t think tho. The problem is that behavior makes the reworked/new maps too easy for killers and survivors are too weak in general
Balance in general is terrible in this game. There is so much useless stuff in the game and everything gets nerfed constantly. I would much more prefer balancing this game as strong vs strong rather then weak killer vs weak survivors. This is boring, strong stuff is much more fun. Then they also remove fun things from the game constantly like sky Billy … and everyone plays only serious and mmr makes everything only worse. Blight and nurse are fine as they are in my opinion.
Change your priorities behaviour, take actions to the things that concern your community the most at the time.
They did and this made this game only worse honestly.
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- "Tunneling" has a loose definition that varies by player and they've given basekit BT. I don't know if you remember immediately being put on the ground after being unhooked, but I do and it sucked. This is the flavor of the month complaint until enough pressure mounts for BHVR to further limit the options of killers in adverse scenarios.
2. You don't need to unlock everything in the game. That time also varies wildly when you consider the frequent events and blood hunts that shower you with millions of BP. The "grind" is also better than it's ever been.
3. I have no idea what you're referencing here. Bland generalizations. The survivor HUD was a huge boon, as were mangled and Hemorrhage being tacitly removed.
4. I can only assume that you're referencing the unknown. It's got a high skill ceiling with a tricky and unwieldy projectile. Nothing wrong with that. People don't play the basic m1 killers as much because they cannot compete in the MMR environment.
5. Hit validation. Confirmation bias. You remember the hits that you think should not have connected, but you do not know about the ones from the other perspective that missed when they should have hit.
Overall the list of complaints is just..... uninspired. Same tepid protests that have been repeated a thousand times before with no thought to the knock-on effects they'd have on the game.
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A lot of the past changes were needed in my opinion, to make killer a better experience. But I agree that now it's time for survivors to get a bit more help. I really wish they would do more about tunneling and camping, the game would become so much better for survivor if those two strategies were nerfed.
Some more solo queue buffs would also be welcome.
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Which is an issue with map design not with the killer... The issue if you implement these things is that Nurse would feel horrible to play and basically just like a worse version of wesker or Blight... I think her basic design is Allright, maps just need to be adjusted accordingly, same with the other killers I mentioned.
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What exactly?
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I don't agree with the maps being good for killers only... Just look at Eyrie or Garden of Joy, even after the rework they heavily favor survivors.
However I agree that maps should not be heavily one-sided... Even though it feels like they maybe are going in the right direction when we look at the upcoming haddonfield changes...
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Iri of crows is fair I think and maps should favor survivors in my opinion. That‘s the only thing they got. Garden of joy on the other side doesn’t favor survivors anymore (maybe if the rng is good). Shure strong main, but the maze tiles spawn most times without a window and the pallets spawn so weird. Outside of main it‘s mostly dead zone after breaking 3 pallets.
Are you honestly saying the haddonfield changes are good, this will be the most killer sided map ever?!
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Why would you want camping and 3 genning to become stronger again? Unless I am understanding you incorrectly?
There are reasons to why the anti-facecamp and anti-3 gen systems were introduced, because they were insanely unfun to go against for most people. I also don't see how camping is unviable now, only facecamping is nerfed by this useless new anti-facecamp system.
I don't know, I really don't think maps are the problem for survivors in this game. They have just become much fairer for both sides in general, with of course some exceptions. Camping and tunneling are the biggest frustrations survivors have to deal with, and those need to be addressed. If we instead just make maps more survivor sided again, we just end up with even more camping and tunneling killers.
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They removed the broken windows in the houses and added more pallets in the dead zones, of course the map will be better. The map was stupid with those infinite windows. And people complained that they were forced to run them because everything else was a dead zone... The solution seems fitting...
The filler loops on eyrie are really strong, the map still favors survivors.
I dont see a reason why maps should not be balanced but survivor sided?
Garden of joy still has quite strong filler loops, a really strong main building and somewhat weird collision on the bushes, it is still survivor sided... Even the main building changes didn't solve much.
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They did a bugfix with hit validation and surviviors were not getting all those "pokos" and "fidos" hits. It was reverted few days later.
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Because this game is more fun if people play differently Therefore I want the anti camp to become a part of all hook based perks as status effect and anti 3 gen changed, because it‘s just annoying and denies variety in builds. Instead of making those playstiles trash they should just give survivors better perks and other stuff.
Camping is unviable without playing huntress. Also I don’t want to wait for someone to die on hook. I want survivors to come to me so that I don‘t have to search for them and sometimes face camp buba. All the anti camp did was making killers stronger by making killers proxicamping or tunnel.
I wouldn‘t call it „the maps became fairer“ more like far easier for killers, because I don‘t think any map is unfair for killers that aren‘t trash. Killers should play around loops with their power, skill, perks or they should just break the pallet. Instead of nerving constantly they should buff the weak killers.
I don‘t want behavior to play mommy for everyone by removing everything unpleasant from this game.
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Haddonfield was somewhat balanced before and the windows weren’t that bad. All they did with the rework was removing the only good thing survivors had on this map and placing some useless pallets and doing everything else they could to make it completely killer sided.
Maps should favor survivors, that‘s the only thing they got. Iri favors survivors, but is still fair like most maps.
I prefer old garden of joy. It was one of my favorite maps. Now it‘s extremely easy to 4K on this map.
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All they did for years was make band aid fixes for gameplay issues by making the solutions into perks, and now you want that back? Nah dude you are off on that.
Who cares about variety if all those things are majorly unfun for one or the other side?
So you basically don't want to learn tracking but just sit around and let them come for you? Well that is boring.
No map is unfair for killer? Infinite windows on haddonfield? Old cowshed? Pallet heaven that is the game... Yeah sure half the roster cannot play around those loops but needs to kick 10 pallets first... If you lost on old cowshed as survivor against an m1 killer that was 100% on you... A decent survivor could loop the killer for 5 min+ on that map... But sure the killer is trash dude xD
Why exactly would you not want unpleasant things removed? That's an odd wish.
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What do you mean by only thing they got? What about the ability to loop and mind game the killer?
Haddonfield was balanced by being garbage for both sides... Killer had to camp the dead zones and survivors only had the houses that were basically infites...
The houses were not that good??? The houses were literal infinite, against an m1 killer you could shift tech and lose chase so they didn't even get entity blocked... I'm wondering if we even play the same game with those statements of yours.
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I meant with the killer is trash the character not the player.
Why exactly would you not want unpleasant things removed? That's an odd wish.
Because this Community never stops complaining and just switches targets after one thing got changed. This game was great once. We were at the point where people claim calm spirit is op. The game was far more fun in the past than its now and it was because there were many things that you call unpleasant and I call fun.
I also did say they should buff weaker killers instead of nerfing constantly everything.
Post edited by jonifire on2 -
I don't recall the context of the first thing? About haddonfield houses? Some context would be nice there. Even if btw. there still should be such strong easy to play loops like those stupid windows on haddonfield, even weaker killers should have an option to play the loop and not just give up because there is nothing they can do.
It is only reasonable to go for the next issue when one is resolved...
Well that is subjective, I find the game more enjoyable these days.
Yeah I'd appreciate buffs to weaker things as well.
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It is only reasonable to go for the next issue when one is resolved...
That means for me more more things are being removed I like.
Before I say how I would play them, I will say that the upper floor of any house and main never were a problem. The other houses 3 windows were sometimes tricky, but mostly doable and 2 windows in the ground floor were fine. I have to add that it rarely happens that a survivor actually plays this windows well. Most don‘t even know what they got.
1 When I‘m in the entrance close to a survivor. I try to bait the vault next to the window, so I put my read stain to the window and then go fast back through the entrance.
2 Sometimes when they are a bit ahead I try to jump down on them from the upper floor, not always useful.
3 I don’t follow them into the living room because then they can use the optimal way to vault the windows and then I try to mindgame.
4 When there is a window in the living room I just follow. Most times I catch up and then do one of the other ways.
I hope I could answer it a bit. If there is a more specific situation that you want to know. I can try to prove it wrong or admit you are right. Shure those houses are strong, but they are balanced by the rest of the map being trash. I very rarely had a survivor actually play them, where it took some time, but I never had big problems with the house. The best solution they could do I think is adding in some houses fair breakable walls, that don’t make those windows useless, but help the killer and then they could also add some more pallets.
It would also be cool if they bring back the original haddonfield map and change whatever was a problem with that map. I would love to play this map, because it looked so good in old videos.
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Original haddonfield had kilometer long fences with windows in the middle you could basically hold w for minutes without the killer catching up, the map was an atrocity.
The Myers building also had at least one god window that was basically an infinite, because it broke chase.
I mean just because you like those things does not mean the majority of people do. It is only fair that they express their will as well and if it is deemed reasonable to give them what they ask for.
If the people you play against don't use the houses, what exactly do they do then? The map has no windows outside of the house and a total of like 7 pallets outside? Everytome I get this map everyone just goes straight towards a house, because the map does not offer much more.
Those window loops are super easy to play, it is really not hard to loop an m1 killer there for several more vaults than just 3 before entity block.
Sure the upper floors are not the issue, but I never said so. To be explicit the problematic windows are the two on the same side and the main building ones. As they both allow for many vaults without much of a risk of being cut of or outplayed.
I dont really think that decent survivors will fall for those things you listed as plays and even if some fall for it the loops still heavily favor them.
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The super long fences would be easy to fix on old haddonfield field.
The Myers house windows aren‘t really too strong. You maybe get 2 rounds, but most times you catch up before the second round.
I didn‘t mean they don‘t use the houses. I meant they don‘t play them up their most potential/ most play them bad. I rarely got someone playing them well and even then it‘s not too bad, but they favor them like you said.
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I don't think either side needs major basekit buffs.
Killers need only killer specific changes, but quite a lot of them.
Survivors don't need major buff in my opinion. Only thing that needs to be changes are QoL features, or small buffs focused on soloQ experience.
Just show other players perk at least, that's must have and I have seen some other good ideas to help soloQ, I think that should be main focus for survivor changes. no immortality after unhooking, no basekit unbreakableBoth sides need better generic perks to help new players.
Decrease grind, because it's just insane how many hours you need to "unlock" whole game. As if lot of money is not enough.
Tons of perk changes needed.
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If your argument is that the houses were fine because players are too bad to use them properly... Then by that logic nurse needs a buff because bad players don't know how to use her properly... Doesn't really work out does it?
If someone plays those two windows good and you play a killer without a good chase power you will get looped at that house for minutes.. And it is not that hard to pull it off.
I mean sure they could have just changed the fences, but also wanted to update the graphics.
As for the Myers house... But is it good gameplay to just follow them? Because there is not really an option to cut them off? If you do it we'll you can probably get out more than 2 laps, by utilizing the other windows the house has.
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Yes one of them, but I didn‘t say the houses need buffs.
They can be played good, but the killer also has options to outplay them or he should just leave the area if he can‘t catch them fast enough.
Doesn‘t current haddonfield have updated grafic or do you mean the old haddonfield with better grafic.
Counter question is it fun as survivor when you get hit reguardless how you play. It‘s not like that is the only real loop in this area and that is also how this game works. Killer is chasing survivor is running.
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Leave the area and go where exactly? In basically every direction is a house with strong windows... That's the whole point why the map needed to get looked at, survivors just ran to the houses and you either abandon chase or lose the game, because against a decent survivor you don't get a hit fast enough there.
Yes the graphics got updated, I just stated that I don't necessarily think a graphics update was necessary or the rework of the loops could have been a little bit more minor I guess, so to not have a whole different set of issues.
Both playstyle are not good, which is the reason why OG legion was terrible design, he just followed you and hit you till you went down. However my point is that as the killer you should be able to cut survivors off to reduce chase time, because just holding w behind them like on midwich is horrid. What exactly has that to do with getting a guaranteed hit though? Are you telling me there is only busted loops and useless ones or what?
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The windows aren‘t undefeatable as long as you don‘t follow them without thinking. I meant „with leave the area“ leave the chase if they are too far ahead or have too much stuff, then they can play the houses very well or run from pallet to pallet to window, but that is a thing that applies for almost every map. Once you got the pallets next to the houses, they have to fully run around the house while you catch up and hit them.
You can cut off survivors. Go upstairs in the houses and jump down on the survivors. Also when you want the houses to have many holes, survivors have to get something to run to, but most times got only one pallet outside of a house and if that is dropped, you got nothing. (Side note houses with many holes are weird if they aren‘t ruins)
The main isn‘t busted so aren‘t the houses. Strong yes, but not busted.
Whenever Behavior touches maps at the moment, they mostly only add loops, where the killer has only to walk left/right and then force the pallet drop, which gives him a free hit and in the haddonfield rework they made the loops even weaker than that. Haddonfield was balanced before, because the map had huge deadzones and strong houses. Now it has deadzones + deadzones in the houses.
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If those windows are not busted what are you going to tell me next? That the infinite on Hawkins is not that strong and if someone reaches it you can just leave?
The issue is that the houses are easily accessible from almost everywhere and are quite strong and easy to pre run to because of the good visibility on the current version of this map.
Sure you can go up and it make work if the survivor is brand new but otherwise he will just make distance..
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But we all disagree on many things, not to mention, if they did things they think will work people would rise to complain about it.
I know for sure your point 2. is bogus. It takes like 8 hours max to reach P1 which is the unlocking stage for perks. To get all perks you need to play that 35 times for Killers and 41 times for all Survivors, if you buy all DLCs. That will be 600hours.
Then again, that is only if you want all the busted perks and why would you? To raise your mmr into hell? nah, I play with random perks myself, I rarely pick the meta and I beg for bHVR to add a random perk option so I can get a cool new experience every game.1
