Killers are carried by OP perks, go to High MMR and then demand nerfs on forum
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The person I quoted literally mentioned Corrupt.
Ruin + Undying was very unhealthy gen regression meta. Eruption + CoB + Overcharge was also very oppressive and unhealthy meta because it was literally just about kicking gens and downs. Compared to it, PR + Pop is the peak of healthy meta because you need to work hard for true potential of those perks. Only thing I would tweak would be lowering Pop to like 25%.
high mobility killers like Blight, Billy and Oni bring more depth into survivor play and requires more knowledge to actually play against, compared to classic M1 and M2 killers. Problem is, the mistakes you make as a survivor are punished way more against high mobility killers than they are against other killers, and unless we are talking about Grim + DMS, their builds are not really that much of a problem, and you definitely won't bump into Momo anytime.
pardon me then, not being able to do anything for 30s, not even tap the gen while it regresses at double speed is more healthy.
Ohh, and having to cleanse all totems to get rid of old Ruin + Undying is also definitely more healthy!!!
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If downing Survivor doesn’t require any skill, then why the Kill Rates aren’t 100% on all Killers?
On the other hand, if you’re the Survivor who’s this easy to catch, then you can’t really blame Killer for you losing the match.
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Two of the worst specific examples of dbd's history is not the entirety of its history. I suggest avoiding cherry picking in the future, especially when a simple glance at the patch notes would disprove your point.
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Doing gens / healing also require skill - you have to constantly hit skill checks.
Now where is perk for me that after doing gens or healing someone, killer is hindered and blind for 12 seconds?
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I was not replying to you mate.
By the way, to your question, Blastmine is your answer. Doing gens to stun & blind killers :)
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Compared to it, PR + Pop is the peak of healthy meta because you need to work hard for true potential of those perks. Only thing I would tweak would be lowering Pop to like 25%.
I'm not going to write another comment with map changes.
Pop should be token-based or have limited usages as it was strong when it regressed -20% of current progression, don't know why it was buffed to -30% when gens take 90 seconds instead of 80 and survivors don't have that much gen progression perks as previously.
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There's a difference between downing a survivor quickly and downing a survivor. Eventually you will down a survivor, unless you are completely outclassed by the other side. Survivors must make 0 mistakes in chase, must lose 0 50/50s, and must continue to do that the entire duration of their chase. A killer can: get caught on terrain, miss m1s, miss m2s, get pallet stunned, get bloodlust 2 or 3 by simply holding w, lose a survivor for a few moments, but guess what? Those chases are still under 50 seconds. Killers can essentially make 10x more mistakes than survivors, but still be rewarded with downs. Kill rates are simply not at 100% because most matches are determined within the first 80 seconds of the game. If you cannot down a survivor within that time and the survivors are working the most effectively, by the time you get your first hook, the game is already over. 3 gens are going to pop, and unless you're on a snowball killer, the best you can hope for is a 1k or 2k. But again, that's assuming you are being completely outclassed by the survivor side, which is a skill issue on the killer's part.
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Not sure why the quote button is bugged, but I responded above.
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I love bringing Blast Mine, but besides laughs and giggles on Discord with "lmao killer blind" it doesn't give much value.
If Blast Mine would neutralize effect of gen-kicking perks it would give bigger value, but then it might be too oppressive :)
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Erm.. if that Killer makes that many mistakes, and has to rely on Bloodlust 2/3 to get you, then he’s basically losing the game. Downing Survivor at that point isn’t a reward anymore, as you’re being punished with 3 gens done for one single chase. Do it twice, the game is already over.
For Killers, it takes skill to find + down Survivors quickly in every single chase. One bad chase can essentially lose you the game, so it isn’t like Killer has many rooms for error either, especially when he has to fully focus on the match for the entire time, unlike playing Survivor who can rest on repairing Gens or getting hooked.
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Well it’s a 4-5 seconds stun, so the value comes from Survivors doing Gens. If 3 Survivors are on Gens it’s like 15s worth of progress, which is really not that bad for just 1/16 Survivor perk loadout.
Not to mention it can happen multiple times.
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I have to do 45 seconds of gen time to stun killer for 4 seconds.
Don't try to make Blast Mine game-changing perk because it isn't.
Mentioning fractions of survivor perks is just silly.
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Oh wow, I never thought about this, a perk singlehandedly negates half the power of a pop, no wonder why people love this perk
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Did I say it’s game-changing perk? I just said it’s more decent than you think, not useless.
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y'all can't be serious, for real xD
3 survivors on same gen give:
0.7 (base repair speed for 3 people on one gen) * 3 survivors * 4 seconds of killer stun = whopping » 8.4% « progress of gen
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.Pop removes -5% and then -30% of what's being left.
PainRes removes flat -15%.Besties, what even are you talking about.
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ohh wait, let me find another killer meta that was strong and wasn't about specific killer...error 404, not found.
wasting killer's time was always a much stronger aspect than bringing gen progression perks, that's why you find gen regression perks so oppressive :D
Bringing toolboxes with BNPs or any addon that helps progress the gens, Deja Vu + Resilience, eventually PT or some other gen progressjon perks and expecting that you will be able to "genrush" is the main reason why gen regression perks look so oppressive in your eyes.
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Your sarcasm isn't helping your point lol
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Why are you calculating 3 people on 1 Gen? Efficient Survivors spread out, so it’s like 16% Gen progress.
Besides, if Killer decides to kick Gens before chasing Survivors who were working on that Gen (Ex: To trigger Pop), you’re getting a 4-5s headstart for distance, which basically means you’ve escaped the chase before it even started.
So yeah, it’s far from useless.
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Bloodlust 2 takes 25 seconds. That's not very much time at all when pain res negates that. One horrible chase can lose you the game, one bad chase allows survivors to make at least 10% progress on one generator, still more than enough to 4k as killer.
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I think survivors have been nerfed too much but many of those changes were neccessary. Some maps are too weak now with few pallets that's fine agains't m1 killers but most players play A-tier killers so then it's not fine. There needs to be found middle ground.
The buffs has made killer on console better experience but the problem is pc killers are too strong.
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yk that you can break BL, right? And BL2 is almost always a clear signal that you should drop the chase as killer.
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Efficient Survivors spread out, so it’s like 16% Gen progress.
In what world? What are you talking about?
If we take that 3 survivors are doing separate gens then it's ~4.4% of progress per gen, where did you get 16%?
Also how many games there are that 4 survivors are doing separate gens, one of them applies blast mine to gen, killer goes straight to that gen and kicks it? So killer didn't apply any pressure at all on any survivors for that time?
You said that it can be applied multiple times.
So survivors arent hooked, don't need to be healed, aren't dead?
What kind of tomfoolery is this argumentation? XD
That way I can justify any weak perk,
"omg Genetic Limits is so OP, because it inflicts Exhausted after someone finishes healing, so survivors cannot use DH/Lithe/SB/Balanced Landing, it literally could save so much time for killer side, PS you can use it multiple times!!"
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Killer Mains just want easy games. It is not about balance and fairness anymore. The Devs comply because they are led to believe Killer Role is too hard. It is just a bunch of hand-holding.
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I mean, can we not pretend that Hope doesn't slaughter 110% killers. Acting like it isnt in issue in that situation is ignorant at best and destructive at worst
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I do know both of those things, and you're right it is a sign to drop chase. But the killers that frequently get bloodlust 2 and stay on the same survivor are rewarded with bloodlust 3 to auto win the chase in most cases for only an additional 10 seconds in chase, if the survivor isn't hit since bloodlust 2 is already more than enough.
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forcing pallet breaks, shift tech and cutting LoS help tremendously in breaking Bloodlust, tho shift tech is quite probably the most difficult survivor tech to learn and master.
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No it isn't. And since you're focused on bloodlust, surely you know the value of being able to transfer bloodlust between survivors right? Having bloodlust 1 on one survivor and being able to transfer that to another survivor happens very frequently, especially since the second survivor most likely is in a more precarious position than the original survivor being chased.
But all of that is besides the point. There are usually only 3 pallets on a map that most killers MUST break or the survivor will never be caught: Shack, god pallet at main, god pallet in one other good tile. The rest of the pallets are all mind-gameable and bloodlust actually improves the chance to win a mind game. Plus if you don't want to mind game, holding W and circling the pallet are usually more than enough, and those tiles are small enough where shift tech and losing LoS are not even possible.
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35 seconds in a chase x 2 is pretty much a win for any survivor team
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Yeah i have said that Pop and Pain Res should be nerfed
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If you're having to get bloodlust 3 twice in a chase, yes you are going to lose as killer. I'm simply highlighting that even killers who rely on the bloodlust mechanic are rewarded for not knowing how to play the game effectively. In most cases bloodlust 1 is enough and that is only 15 second per stack. 30 seconds for a chase is absolutely within a killer's ability to 4k.
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faaaaaaacts!
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PR has already been nerfed
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I understand where you coming from, but it's absolutely false statement.
I can agree that chase wise survivor needs more knowledge and skill, than a player who plays on multiple killers on average. You need to know all killers' counter, chase nuances, all maps layout and rng, keep in mind how good person you go against and what he possibly can do. But it's still not as INCOMPARABLY BIGGER as you describe.
But when we are talking about game sense and macro gameplay…bruh. It's 1v4 game, if you forgot. It means that 1 person should keep in mind and tries to pressure 4 different players. Macro gameplay is a bread and butter of today's DBD killer role, because without knowledge of how and when pressure the map, when to drop chase, where to buy time to yourself, how many resources left on the map and etc. – you will lose to semi-good survivor, who will just sit on a gen and drop every pallet even without looping.
And thing is – you don't even need macro gameplay on survivors every game, when all survivors in your team are good. One person buys time in chase, others invest it in gens, that's it, your win. And on killers you don't need macro only when all survivors are literally babies and all chases are 10 seconds long.
But overall yeah, i would say, that 95% survivors don't understand what macro gameplay is. Healing when you need do gens, do gens when you need to rescue, group up when you need to be on different sides of the map, stealth when you need to be self-sacrificing, draw attention to themselves when they need to be stealthy. That's why more than half games are lost in soloq. Even in swf i need to say "you don't need to do that now, there is no time for it" to friends without many hours in this game. But again, this is a consequence of the fact that they are bad at looping and poorly manage time on their own.5 -
Definitely agree this can happen on killer, stacking slowdown can carry you but i don't think it happens beyond a certain extent.
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Vague accusations with no merits that can easily be applied on both sides.
Regular use of a condescending tone when someone dismantle one quote or another.
Private profile with very few posts yet pretends having been there years ago.
And yet, you guys try to argue in all honesty and use facts.
Don't you see you are wasting your time?
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pretends having been there years ago
Can I complain now?
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unfortunately, Steam is full of profiles like this too
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Pain Resonance + Pop is one of the healthiest metas killer had in a long time.
Grim + DMS is very problematic because of...well yes, DMS. The perk that constantly avoided any kind of tweaks, while every perk that synergized well with it was being nerfed, no matter how balanced and healthy they were.
Meanwhile, on survivor side you have:
FTP+ Buckle Up (not addressed in a very long time and not even a word from BHVR about tweaking this perk combo)
Background Player (removes the skill aspect of the saves in general and makes pallet saves extremely powerful)
Flip Flop + PS (extremely powerful in high skill matches)
OTR + DS (should i even explain this one?)
Wicked (literally a free unhook with no interactive conditions for you to proc it, just direct chase towards basement, make the killer down you at the edge of basement where they are not able to reach any external hook without you wiggling off, ez removal of hook pressure).
It seems like you are actually missing the skill part of survivor side and are thinking that killer is op just because you are struggling to improve (i used to cry about random killers being op when i was still learning how to play survivor)
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Pain Resonance + Pop is one of the healthiest metas killer had in a long time.
Again, says who? IIRC Gen times were longer so killers won't have to stack gen regression on top of each other???
Meanwhile, on survivor side you have:
FTP+ Buckle Up (not addressed in a very long time and not even a word from BHVR about tweaking this perk combo)
FTP needs one survivor to be healthy, this is very situational combo, 2 survivors aren't doing gens in this time, then they both need to be healed???
Background Player (removes the skill aspect of the saves in general and makes pallet saves extremely powerful)
Yes, this perk does what it was intended to do, so what? It's exhaustion perk, pick Mindbreaker if it bothers you.
Flip Flop + PS (extremely powerful in high skill matches)
1 use per match, then killer just slug. Also both of these perks are mediocre, it's the same category as Blast Mine, laughs and giggles, that's it. Also survivor have to take 2 perks to do a single pallet stun on killer.
OTR + DS (should i even explain this one?)
Don't tunnel, DS is so weak it's funny, literally gives no value and survivors get down in next ~10 seconds. Good perk value.
Wicked (literally a free unhook with no interactive conditions for you to proc it, just direct chase towards basement, make the killer down you at the edge of basement where they are not able to reach any external hook without you wiggling off, ez removal of hook pressure).
How would you see changes to this perk to not nerf it into oblivion?
It seems like you are actually missing the skill part of survivor side and are thinking that killer is op just because you are struggling to improve (i used to cry about random killers being op when i was still learning how to play survivor)
From the perks that you've mentioned only OTR is in top 10.
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Besides, I've literally responded to your story about "PR + POP is healthy combo", yet I still can't see your response about how can I counter this meta, maybe now you will describe to me, how can I counter such combo?
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how can you counter this combo? This is like asking how to counter gen regression perks in general, and slowdowns too. This is like asking "how do i counter survivors doing gens?", but in reverse.
But since you want to know the very basic thing, force as few hooks as possible, zone killer from scourge hooks, do gens, waste as much of killer's time as possible.
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Did I literally not call it
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mkay, so killer can stall the game however he want, can stack gen regression perks and perks that give them free info about survivors and I should tl;dr "get better"
Also if this meta is countered via "get better" then how is it more healthy than other metas, for example Eruption + Overcharge + COB?
Can you see now that one side have strong perks to be carried by and other side just have to "get better"?
Because that is literally whole clou of this post :)1 -
Both sides complained to the point devs just doing their best for y'all.
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Locking the thread here; between comments, as the OP has been aggressive toward those posting, and comments overall going around in circles. Please remember when posting on the Forums, to keep posts civil & constructive, and be open to listening and constructively discussing, agreeing, or respectfully disagreeing, on the topic. Thank you.
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