Why are people still complaining about Sadako?
Listen, I would consider myself a huge critic of BHVRs Rework Designs but its safe to say they've done a great job with Billy, Sadako and Blights OP Addons.
I think most of us agree on the Billy Rework and Blight Addons, however I've seen so much people still complain about her being "too weak"
Personally I have no issues with destroying players at a higher level as her and also OnePumpWillie (P100 Sadako Main) constantly shows its definitely possible at Top MMR
Sadako 3.0 is great because her initial problems have been fixed and this is her best designed version by a LONG SHOT.
Fixes from Sadako 1.0:
TVs Cooldown are not horrible anymore like in the Sadako 1.0 Version and trust me this should be enough to not want this version back.
Fixes from Sadako 2.0:
TVs have been made more visible, huge consequences for not carrying a Tape and her being an absolute Pub Stomper (Issues from Sadako 2.0) have been fixed.
The Mindless Teleporting and getting so much out of it has been fixed. They got rid of the ugly cooldown. You can lock in up to 3 stacks. You can manage pallets with the No Stun Mechanic a little better. What do you want more?
I've seen people complain that Sadako is a joke because you can "cleanse in their face" So what? This most likely results in a free down or at least a hit and then you just teleport away and comdemn starts to build up again. Just run a bunch of Info Perks.
People need to stop crying that a fully condemned survivor was standing in front of them and escaped a 0 hook death last second. Doing that still has huge consequences if you play your cards right.
I've also seen people complain that her stealth is trash. Of course her ambush potential is not as big as Ghostfaces because of her lullaby. HOWEVER if you don't run around the map like you do on other Killers and actually try to pay attention how big your Lullaby Radius is while constantly teleporting around, people will lose track of you and won't know if you're coming or not. Get creative. She might not be as punishing as other stealth killers for not realising she's there but its justified because thats not her main power. Her condemn is a menace and I think its fair to know her approximate location.
They've managed to finally turn the Condemned Mechanic into a secondary objective to give you more time to actually do something. I feel like the only players complaining are people that try to play her like Wraith or Killer Biased Condemn Sweaters that don't know how it was to be on the receiving end of the Condemn Only (And I mean CONDEMN ONLY) Strat. Sadako has to actually play the game now and it definitely is achievable to manage condemned so it only becomes a threat at the end of the game.
Comments
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Bar a few people, I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the Sadako community that actually plays her agrees they have left her in a very weak state.
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So how do you want them to make her better? They cant buff her condemn because then she becomes way to oppressive and its Dead by Sadako again. Imo they made her as balanced as it gets.
And SURELY shes better now than Sadako 1.06 -
While I agree she is semi decent she just shows how bad the average player is. She is a stealth killer that gives you a telltale before she attacks you way before any of the other stealth killers do, her teleport is sibpar with a huge cooldown and you can see its aura in chase so that she does not catch you with a tp and getting rid of condemed is so easy if you made it easier it would be mending. Also, is you know how to use checkspots she doesnt have a chase power at all.
However when with this the case, pub warriors are so bad at dbd they will still let people like willie get away with matches like that, I have seen people go down against sadako on the game in less that 30 seconds, if that happened to me I would seriously dc or gave up on hook because I fumbled that chase horribly.
Tdlrd sadako is a bad killer but people are so bad at the game she still can get results, meaning she is prob ok and doesnt need changes.
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I agree, as a Onryo enjoyer she’s fun to play honestly when I do play her the game is so easily controlled since every TV is next to a generator you have crazy coverage. I ALWAYS see that good players stomp her but I’ve been basically going on a win streak with her and haven’t noticed any good players stomping me idk to me she feels perfectly fine and ultimately balanced now
She has mind games with her manifestation, her TV’s give her a massive speed boost which I like to use in chase to cut off survivors for a free hit, and her teleporting gives survivors condemn forcing them to get off of gens and reduce their condemn or risk getting caught and having those stacks become permanent. She’s just not so heavily braindead anymore with mindlessly teleporting she has a lot of macro strength in her kit that survivors have to play around.
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"And SURELY shes better now than Sadako 1.0"
I'm actually also pretty sure most the Sadako community would disagree with this. I think a lot of people think Sadako took two steps forward from 1.0 to 2.0 and then 3 steps back going into 3.0.
"So how do you want them to make her better? They cant buff her condemn
because then she becomes way to oppressive and its Dead by Sadako again.
Imo they made her as balanced as it gets."Well firstly, you make it sound like her Condemn is on the verge of oppressive. Most people would agree it's not. More like on the verge of barely useful.
She currently has on the verge of non existent anti loop, a "stealth" that isn't actually stealth, a mild slow down, and an actually quite good map traversal that is controlled by survivors. We have two routes we can go with this. We can either improve the Condemn but continue to leave her in a super weak state in all those other categories to compensate, or the other route which is keep the Condemn where it's at but improve those other areas.
Most Sadako players would prefer the Condemn route as it's actually her distinguishing factor that makes her game play unique.
If we go this route she needs more agency over survivors removing their Condemn. There are multiple different ways we could go about this. I personally prefer hits destroying tapes again. You could instead of that also make Ring Drawing base kit to give more risk to just holding onto tapes as there's currently zero punishment. Then there's the 3rd way we could do which is what we had previously which was slow passive condemn gain while holding a tape to prevent just sitting on a gen with a tape.
Now if you really don't want to go that route and you want to keep the Condemn where it's at then we can go the other route which is lessening some of those other problematic areas.
- Her stealth isn't a real stealth, remove the "lullaby".
- Remove the TV auras other than their TV drop off location. This removes surprise teleport intercepts.
- Remove all slow down from Manifesting. It's so pitiful you almost can't even call it anti loop. It's weak enough to at least remove the negative.
- While were at it increase the duration of the passive invisibility after Manifesting to allow it to actually be an anti loop if you're skilled enough to time the direction changes at flickering intervals.
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If Sadakos condemn is barely useful, how is there at least one condemn kill in like every Sadako game ever? At least thats my experience. Pigs traps is the opposite of barely useful and not oppressive because you lose like 30-60s of time and you never die from it. Sadako however? I heavily disagree.
Your 4 points:
1. I disagree as I stated you can easily confuse Survivors with the Gen approaching, then teleporting away, next time you actually go there. You can make people waste so much time by hovering around the area where Survivors hear your lullaby on a Gen but you dont actually go there. Its like Freddys lullaby. You dont really know where he is exactly, so its at least some kind of stealth.
2. I would be okay with that.
3. I disagree they made her 4.0m/s in the last patches and this is good enough, you dont even lose distance anymore.
4. I would be okay with that0 -
Sadako on the Game is actually a menace because the map is so small and its 2 story, so you can actually cause some serious damage with all the Teleporting.
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She can teleport all she wants you can loop her for days on that map so the condemn she builds is irrelevant, she has to drop chase if you know how to loop, you then use a tape and repeat until gens are done.
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This ^
The Condemn build on that map is easy, but the loops there are a nightmare for her since there are endless godloops and you're an m1 with no anti loop.
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"If Sadakos condemn is barely useful, how is there at least one condemn kill in like every Sadako game ever? "
The average player ignores her mechanics or don't do them because they're confused since they changed her so much. If someone stands there with a Pig trap on and die are Pig traps now good for killing? No. The average Sadako game is misleading on her strength because so many people ignore TVs, but that's just people being bad.
"1. I disagree as I stated you can easily confuse Survivors with the Gen
approaching, then teleporting away, next time you actually go there. You
can make people waste so much time by hovering around the area where
Survivors hear your lullaby on a Gen but you dont actually go there. Its
like Freddys lullaby. You dont really know where he is exactly, so its
at least some kind of stealth."Yeah and Freddy's is near useless as well. With that logic terror radius's in generally are "confusing" to them since they don't know if you're coming or not. No, it isn't confusing, it's just trying to be a stealth killer that tells them you're coming.
"3. I disagree they made her 4.0m/s in the last patches and this is good enough, you dont even lose distance anymore. "
You objectively do lose distance since it slows you down. It's so weak there's no reason for to slow you at all.4 -
I misspelled. Meant to say Pigs Traps suck for killing. The average player does definitely not ignore her mechanics. Define "ignore". People do tapes they just do it too slowly.
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Obviously you try to defend 3-4 gens on that map and get rid of the pallets in that area. if you've got 2-3 hooks or more before it comes to those gens you're in a very decent spot. You also dont need to respect pallets which helps in getting rid of those nasty loops. People simply cant genrush you because they need to do tapes all the time.
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"The average player does definitely not ignore her mechanics. Define "ignore". People do tapes they just do it too slowly. "
If you want to see an example of this, watch any of my recorded games on my profile and you'll see what I mean. The average game you'll see my first TV teleport at the start tag a couple survivors on gens near an active TV. They will continue to sit there and ignore the active TV giving them a stack. What do I do as soon as I see this? I punish them by spamming TVs around the map causing that one TV near them to load them up with like 4+ stacks in a matter of 10 seconds. Then those survivors get mori'd early and complain about Sadako Condemn. Is that Condemn being strong? No, it's them playing bad and ignoring her mechanics. As soon as you get survivors who don't ignore her mechanics they shut all the TVs off instantly denying all of this.
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They turn off TVs near those 3-4 gens denying your map traversal as well as your Condemn spread. Yes you can Demanifest every loop for them to throw down, but there are SO many pallets on that map you could do this and lose 5 gens before they run out. Just eating loops to pallet munch isn't going to win you these games.
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Im a average Sadoko lover, I don't consider myself a main of her since I don't play her all the time and well I'm not that great as her, I would say I'm pretty avg on her. As a note I mainly play Xeno and Legion and I play every killer a little bit other than blight, nurse, oni and Billy (I HATE playing these killers). That said I don't really complain about her 3rd version, I enjoy it more than 2.0 but I do think she weak. I would say she around C tier, not super weak like Freddy or Trapper but also not super strong like A or S tier killers. Personally I only want few things for her.
- a addon pass since a lot of her add-ons are just bad, the only good ones imo are the bloody nail and Ring drawing. Honestly I don't see any reason to ever take these two off since the other add-ons are just meh compared to these two.
- I like TV auras be completely removed except for the ones that survivors need to drop their tape off. I feel knowing where every on TV at all times is too much free information for survivors.
- Personally I honestly want ring drawing be based kit. It would add some risk for holding a tape again and be a additional reward the players for hooking a survivor instead of just slugging them.
Those about the only things I personally want for her. I do enjoy her 3.0 version but she is weak in some areas and could use some love just to help players.
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Long time Sadako player here
She's better in terms of strength compared to 1.0 and more fair than 2.0, but it's incredibly easy to shut her teleport (and map pressure) completely down, as well as kneecap her stealth just by having the visual heartbeat on to see her lullaby.
She's still good for mindgames if you can manage her manifest invisibility right and know how to bait out with the stun protection when demanifested, but that's about it. No real chase power, still an M1 killer that can be looped for eternity at strong loops, and condemned is only a problem if you let it be one.
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I’ve been very vocal about Sadako since 1.0.
I have over 2k hours into this killer and I have played all versions of her. I wouldn’t exactly define me or my threads as “Complaints” though. (Not saying you are)
To be clear, I am here to give my feedback, not complain. In doing so I have provided a lot of feedback with the help of my Onyro Family to really get a understanding as to what the issues are.
It’s not all bad, but she has some flaws that aren’t easily ignored.As a reminder, here’s a thread showing some flaws on video as to why Sadako is still weak and explaining why…
Also - not having a counter to someone cleansing in my face IS a joke. There should always be a counter in these situations, there is not and often it does not always lead to a hit or down because the killer interaction is the shortest killer interaction in the game, making it very easy for the survivor to keep moving.Your post makes it seem like some of us just want Sadako to be the best killer beyond S tier in the game and that’s NOT what I am asking for. Most killers have 1 or 2 weakness. Sadakos has like 4 or 5. It’s too much.
Reading your post worries me though because it seems like you don’t really know how she works and why she’s flawed.I’m happy to enlighten you.
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Sadakos lullaby is the only lullaby in the game I believe that is directional, this gives her away completely.
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- It‘s funny how all her addons are outdated and the good ones got deleted. The only good one is bloody fingernails and that is required to stand a chance.
- Agree 💯 %. The auras make every part of her kit worse. Be it her chase, to approach survivors, condemned denial….
- Ring drawing should be basekit, so that carrying tapes gets some risk at least (I would prefer getting passive condemned back). I want old ring drawing back, it was such an unique and good addon. I also don‘t think slugging is something bad, especially since Sadako can‘t down you easy and you should not be forced to play every killer the same way.
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Her current version has so many flaws: Outdated/bad addons, the good ones got deleted, ONLY a noob stomper, complete power denial/control by survivors, too much information given to survivors (TV auras), bad stealth (directional lullaby and visuel terror radius), cleansing in her face, no counterplay as Sadako or negative for survivors grabbing a tape. Maybe I forgot something?
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As someone who loved everything about Sadako 1.0. I just want this version with todays buffs back. She would be very strong, but fair. You would have your TVs always, which sucks since 2.0 and 3.0, that survivors always turn off all TVs all the time. This would give you your control over the tp and condemned back. She never needed the reworks only some buffs and I would have buffed condemned by making the range 24m or making it based around the proximity to one Tv (0-8m 2stacks; 8-16m 1 stacks; 16-24m 0,5 stacks). Another point is all her addons are still designed to only fit well with 1.0s mechanics.
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Well okay maybe you guys are right
Make her lullaby non-directional and make TV Auras of your Non Destination TV not visible that should be it though.
The Addons is a universal issue though, every second killer suffers of this
I still think Sadako 3.0 is by far the best designed one tho
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The thing with her addons is, she once had good addons, but they all became bad/worse/outdated through the reworks: Iri tape, ring drawing, tape editing deck, vcr, rickety pinwheel, reikos watch, yoichis fishing net, sea soaked cloth.
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It's weird how after they reworked her they didn't touch so many of her addons that fundamentally functioned with her old kit and don't make sense with the new one.
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Yeah at least they could introduce some of the old mechanics back with the addons. For example tape editing deck was already bad after the first rework, but had some use, why doesn‘t give this addon passive condemned to tapes.
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Yeah I've seen a lot of people think Tape Editing Deck is not only good but one of her better addons in Sadakos current iteration. It's very bad. I think a lot of the people that think Tape Editing Deck is good don't actually play much Sadako. The simpler solution would be as you said to give passive Condemn back to holding a tape as there's also currently zero negative to just sitting on a tape.
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Yep, how can someone think she has good addons. Her strongest addon is bloody fingernails, which is sad. All her addons are kinda meh.
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Sadako as a killer is almost impossible to balance because of the threat of condemn, it is either too strong or too weak and pretty much no middle ground, if condemn didn't exist and they created a different power for her we wouldn't be in this weird predicament of how to make her playable
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Totally agree on Fingernails. It is a complete auto lock for me, it's too good. If an addon is too required to ever drop it should just be base kit. I personally think her other best addon is Remote Control. So much good info for intercepting tape drops and to see if anyone's ignoring an active TV on them. Not to mention mind games in chase. I've got so many downs and kills from Remote Control alone. These two are what I always run, they're too good compared to anything else.
Most the addons are bad yeah. All the purples are trash. Ring Drawing should be base kit to encourage hooking. If Well Water was base kit her Manifest/Demanifest would have some better mind games around high wall loops. Similar to Newspaper. Iridescent Videotape actively harms you as a meme addon..but it's her Iri..not a grey like every other killer. Super annoying. I'd actually even argue Tape Deck actively hurts you as well.
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I also started using remote control, to have an eye on my hexes (I play her with only hexes). It‘s good, but I wouldn‘t cal it strong tho.
It‘s a shame what they did to ring drawing, it was such a cool unique addon and it should have never been removed.
Yes well water would make it better, but I think they should in general remove the red stain if she flickers instead.
Newspaper: I still don‘t understand why there is a difference between manifest and demanifest flicker. Both should be the same and either reikos watch or newspaper should get the effect with 50%.
Agree with iri tape and tape edeting deck, both help the survivors and I hope we one day get 1.0 Sadako with passive condemned back. Iri tape I just want the OG version of it.
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"I also started using remote control, to have an eye on my hexes (I play
her with only hexes). It‘s good, but I wouldn‘t cal it strong tho."Oh I definitely would. It's clutch. You can see examples of what I mean in my games if you still doubt. You'll see what I'm talking about with cutting off tape drops and knowing when to TV spam. I personally play her with a full hex build as well. It's kinda meme'y but works. I like making them juggle secondary objectives by adding the totems on top of the condemn.
"It‘s a shame what they did to ring drawing, it was such a cool unique addon and it should have never been removed."
Yeah I actually liked the old version. Spreading Condemn on heals was so unique. Wish we had it back.
"Yes well water would make it better, but I think they should in general remove the red stain if she flickers instead."
That could work as well!
"Newspaper: I still don‘t understand why there is a difference between
manifest and demanifest flicker. Both should be the same and either
reinos watch or newspaper should get the effect with 50%."I guess they wanted more benefits on Demanifest since you can't hit them. I agree with your point though.
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how do you make her better? simple.
either reduce her lullaby from 24m to 16m, or just outright remove her lullaby. the lullaby ruins the aspect of her being a stealth killer, why can sadako do exactly what wraith can do but wraith does it 2x better? also just fully revert the locking condemn by hooking back to how it was in the PTB, it was just fine and needed no nerfs.
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She currently has on the verge of non existent anti loop, a "stealth" that isn't actually stealth, a mild slow down, and an actually quite good map traversal that is controlled by survivors. We have two routes we can go with this. We can either improve the Condemn but continue to leave her in a super weak state in all those other categories to compensate, or the other route which is keep the Condemn where it's at but improve those other areas.
my ideal is that each part of her kit is strong on even scale. what defines what should be oppressive is how killer allocates add-on's to make her oppressive in the area they select.
Consider the following 10 add-on's and their combinations.
Video tape copy(Old iri tape)+ring drawing: Condemn increase add-on's
Remote control+Bloody finger nails: TV teleportation add-on's
News paper+Mother's mirrior/Telephone: Manifiest add-on's[Decloak add-on's]
Clump of hair+Rekiro's watch. Steallth improvement add-on's.
The killer base-kit should be passable in reward when they use a certain element of their kit. When they equip an add-on to boost that particular part of the kit, that part of the kit should be oppressive.
For example, I should be able condemn people with 0 add-on's at base-kit but in order to my curse oppressive, I should need to run ring drawing and iri tape in say old iteration to make it truly potent. Right now condemn add-on are really bad on average because base-kit for condemn is awful.
TV should teleporting should be passable at base-kit but what should push it into oppressive territory is bloody finger nails and iri remote control.
Her anti-loop invisibility should be passable without add-on's, old newspaper, Mother mirror and telephone should push it over edge. currently anti-loop is trash so running add-on to boost an ineffective anti-loop kit makes little sense.
The last set of add-on are suppose improve her stealth like clump of hair should reduce her lullaby by 4 meters alongside invisibility threshold distance and rekiro's watch is suppose to give you this passive phasing so it is harder to see her coming in open field. Currently nobody sees these add-on as useful enough to put them in a build to improve her outside chase stealth. as a result nobody runs them.
current Sadako is lopsided on TV teleportation while all her other gameplay styles are ineffective at base-kit with add-on doing little remedy to improve said base-kit. an ideal state for Sadako or any killer is for many add-on to be viable and many play-styles to be relevant. there is always going to be bias preference of add-on called "Meta add-on's" but every game has meta upgrades. there is always going to be something that dominates all others either because it is empirically the best or the player has bias preference to that play-style. sometimes many play-styles are valid but the player bias chooses one over other because they like it more for x reason.
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Her purple and yellow addons are pretty useless in this current iteration
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It’s very difficult to balance I give them that. They almost have it though. If they removed the lock in limit it would be perfect OR if they brought passive condemn back that would be perfect. (Not both though of course)
As One Pump Willie said “Currently there are no downsides to tapes in her current form. Only upsides”
This is a problem. Makes it hard to do anything about. Last night I went against at least a 3man on Badham. I had 5 hooks. All escapes. Most of my TVS were offline. My chases were short, lots of pressure but they used resilience against me. Smart.Remote Control sadly wasn’t too useful that found due to most of my TVs being offline for so long
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i disagree. she's so far off where she needs to be in every single dimension except TV teleporting. TV teleporting is ok for m1 play.
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Perfect was the wrong word. There are many flaws with her but I guess what I am trying to say is, if I could get one change of the other, I would be happier. I’m desperate at this point 🤣
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Weaker than 2.0, stronger than 1.0
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Disagree, but I don't think we have to discuss this any further because we both don't seem to come to any agreement.
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Green slaps.
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