"Nah man, Flashlight saves, Background player, infinite Flashbangs are balanced bro"

Gets even better if you pair it with Forced Hesitation. (but you might get yelled at in the end game chat).

No deliverance if you get hooked first

Most perks do nothing if you get tunneled

No one left behind adrenaline and hope do nothing if you die before the endgame. And now in solo que if your team does the last gen while your on the hook, you won’t get adrenaline

It’s hard to pick a consistent build in as survivor without just running sprint burst windows lithe resilience distortion

"You must run the following to not have an awful time against things that aren't counterable as they stand."

So you have to bring god awful perks (for the most part) or perks with little use outside of stopping something that is impossible to counter normally?

You cannot compare this to distortion where your aura is revealed but you can still outplay the killer with looping and good game knowledge. Or Calm Spirit to counter Ultimate Weapon, as you could also loop and play (the issue was it did its job far too well for stronger killers with no good way to mitigate it).

Besides, these perks are bad for the following reasons:

-Lightborn: I've never needed this until BGP and Flashbangs caused this mess. This is a complete waste of a perk slot and a death sentence if I'm matched people of my skill level.

-Infectious Fright: A decent perk on some killers, but pointless when survivors have BGP. You won't catch them as they can stay far away and pre-run if you go after them. Sure, you can slug, but do you really want to encourage this sort of gameplay?

-Fire Up: Yeah unless all the gens are done, the changes in blinding timings are so generous it almost never matters. Even then, god awful perk just as bad as lightborn.

-Blood Echo: Beyond being mediocre, you actually have to HOOK people AND injure the saviours. The former isn't possible if you're getting flashbanged with BGP.

-Genetic Limit: Requires the survivors to do something out of your control first. Terrible perk.

-Mindbreaker: The only decent choice here. But then again they can also just walk for 5 seconds. Only useful to catch them when they're doing a gen, barely useful in this scenario.

-Septic Touch: Same as Genetic Limits.

Your suggestion that killers need to vary their builds goes against your whole thesis here: You MUST run at least one of these perks to not have to suffer something you CANNOT counter lest you simply slug the whole team. This is a horrible take and reinforces the incredibly unhealthy nature of the game's current state. I should not have to run specific perks to even be able to fulfil my objective.

It's not correct in my opinion. Flashbang should be allowed to aoe blind a killer who is facing a wall. Flashbang requires 45 seconds on a generator minimum without items or perks. As a killer, you have 45 seconds to get the snowball rolling, which happens almost every game.

Lightborn should not negate an entire mechanic.

As I've said in other threads, the fact you have multiple survivors swarming means the game has hit a standstill. 2 survivors going for an altruistic save on a downed survivor means that at most, one gen's worth of progress is being done over 90 seconds. That is better slowdown that bringing 4 slowdown perks as killer.

1 Flashbangs are better since its way harder to tell if someone has a giant torch in their hand or a small grenade
2 They were always better since the buffer to blind buff.

I usually just scout the area and find someone hiding before picking up, and even then if there’s a wall to face I’ll just face that.

There's a really easy counter to the killer looking at a wall: Don't go down next to a wall. Only the most absolute madlads can pull off this technique, however.

So you have to bring god awful perks (for the most part) or perks with little use outside of stopping something that is impossible to counter normally?

Yes, and I don't know why is this such a big deal. If killers want to counter pallet saves, flashlight saves or exhaustion perks, they could use what they have now. This perks were made specifically to counter Exhaustion or Flashlight saves.

-Infectious Fright: A decent perk on some killers, but pointless when survivors have BGP.

Are you sure about that? Basic killers have 32m terror radius, downs are unpredictable and even if someone wants to do save, they would go nearby. BGP isn't insta-teleport perk and from what I've played with it, if you are outside terror radius on pickup, there's very little chance to do save.

-Mindbreaker: The only decent choice here. But then again they can also just walk for 5 seconds. Only useful to catch them when they're doing a gen, barely useful in this scenario.

No, if they use exhaustion - and it's easy to use BGP when you don't want it to or don't use this perk value - they would have to walk around on map (aren't doing objective, are slower - easier to hunt down) or be perma-exhausted on gen.

You MUST run at least one of these perks to not have to suffer something you CANNOT counter lest you simply slug the whole team. This is a horrible take and reinforces the incredibly unhealthy nature of the game's current state. I should not have to run specific perks to even be able to fulfil my objective.

Yeah, PR + Pop + Grim is terrible meta, but I could counter it with… ah, yes, nothing.

You shouldn't have basekit counter to everything that other side brings to the game, if something bothers you (exhaustion perks, healing, boons, gen speed perks, survivors doing gens together, sabo squads), you should just equip perk that counters this playstyle.

BGP + Flashbang has terrible pickrates, and even if they are picked together, they have very bad escape rate.

Honestly, I don't know what is this fuss about, I think that some killers just got to top MMR and now they:

• Don't want to use anything to counter some SWF playstyles in High MMR
• Demand nerfs for everyone, because survivor once again have some variety in perk builds and don't simply run WoO/Lithe/Adren/DS

Infectious will not scare off a background player, if you try to harass them, the downed survivor will just crawl under a pallet and then you're really f-ed

Blood Echo activates on hook and will often be expired by the time you get the next down, I run it on Legion

Mindbreaker would not help you if the background player is following the chase

Septic Touch is actually useless and IDK why you even mentioned it

Genetic limits would rarely activate because it would require the background player to have recently healed someone

For sure!

Flashlights are fine. It’s just Background Player being overtuned that’s the problem. Flash bangs them selves would be okay as well if it weren’t for the fact you can’t look at a wall to counter them.

To be fair, Otz never demanded nerfs to this. The video isn’t saying these are overpowered or anything, he even says early in the video he could’ve won at the start by just slugging. He’s pointing out how games like that can cause newer players to quit because they would feel miserable.

Also none of those exhaustion perks would have been useful in this scenario. You can’t get value from Blood Echo without hooks, Genetic Limits and Septic Touch needs them to heal - which they aren’t because they are flashlight saving not healing, Mindbreaker needs them to be on gens which they clearly aren’t if they are going for a save.

Infectious Fright also wouldn’t work because he’s playing Freddy and has no Terror Radius to sleeping survivors.

Yea it gets them not doing gens and instead denying pop/pr so the first few gens pop while the killer gets nothing. Altruism is the strongest thing survivors have and 4 man goofball squads tossing the game isn’t proper altruism.

In my opinion flashbangs are fine because survivors need time on generators to get them. Background Player is the real problem and they should nerf it back to 150%. With 200% speed the survivor can stay in an area where the killer doesn't notice them or cannot reach tean to threaten them with a hit or down while the survivor is near enough to get the rescue. Background Player is also extremely helpful for pallet saves and not only for Flashbangs. If we would only nerf Flashbangs, survivor would go down under paletts. With 150% survivors must come closer to the killer which would give them more risk. Current Background Player gives the killer a lose-lose-situation either the killer gives up the hook because he cannot pick up the survivor or he picks up and loses the hook. 150% would be more fair for the killer but still useful for survivors.

This Is the "Us vs. Them" mentality that no topic needs.

True. But there is a difference between the result and how the match felt. Just because I win a match does not mean it was a good/enjoyable match. Same goes for losing a match I can lose a match but still have fun.

Other users already explained the issues with your suggestions. But to add: If killers are forced to run one of these perks just to counter one perk/strategy then it's clear this is not healthy, especially when most of the mentioned perks are trash. It's the same as survivor picked Calm Spirit just to counter Ultimate Weapon.

Just because something has a low pickrate does not mean it's healthy or okay.