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Is using Equalizers Cheating? Hens vs Ayrun debate
The ongoing debate if using Equalizers is cheating. Equalizers is a 3rd party software that is able to increase or completely eliminate certain sounds in a videogames for dbd its footsteps, breathing, items and killer powers.
Hens says its not cheating while Ayrun says it is cheating
Comments
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If it’s a third party program it is not intended to affect gameplay, hence I would say it is? Idk
Kind of the same thing with killers using VPN, also a third party program creating an advantage
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It's removing sounds that would otherwise mask other sounds, that confers an advantage over those who can't hear the unmasked sounds.
It's not so different to modding the game to make all walls appear 2 inches high. Less impactful but the same basic concept.
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It is, but only because the sound balancing is terrible on purpose.
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Most modern headphones have software that includes an equalizer, I don't really see what the issue is here.
Unless it was able to parse data to specifically increase those audio queues, this is a non-issue.
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Isn't this just the filters debate all over again?
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Is listening to music while playing cheating? I mean, we can turn audio on and off in game. But specific audio like footsteps, breathing, generator noise? Where would it stop?
Cheating or not, it would alter the gameplay to an advantage for one side. Not sure this is even up for debate.4 -
why is this even a debate, of course it’s cheating. they wouldn’t do it if it didn’t give an advantage.
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It's using a third party software to gain an advantage in-game, so by definition yes. This really is just the filters debate all over but in audio format lol.
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sadly has to be a debate cause theres tons of people like hens saying its not cheating
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Is using a monitor with high contrast ratios cheating?
Is using a mouse with high DPI cheating?
Are headphones cheating?
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I would personally argue that there should be some degree of options ingame to balance the audio (at least a bit better than it is by default) as it can be an accessibility issue, but there are layers of design that rely on auditory masking.
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How do you feel about about Low GFX settings removing foliage and fog?
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I use an equalizer to reduce the hook screams below ear piercing levels, some of us need sound balancing as an accessibility option, same as the heartbeat indicator for deaf players that subsequently enables all survivor players to rely on that instead of focusing on actively determining the killer’s proximity based on the stages of terror radius music.
Edit: Like I play DBD on PC, PS4 and Switch and the only one I can get away with playing whilst using headphones is on PC where I have the equalizer, which means that when playing on PS4 and Switch I’m actually at a disadvantage because I can’t tell which directions sounds are coming from without suffering the abuse of hooked survivors screaming… which Behaviour clearly thought needed to be as loud as the voice actor screaming directly into both our ears IRL for some reason… maybe because they thought we were falling asleep at the gen repair simulator portion and needed a wake up call?7 -
IIts not like its a wall hack right?
CConsidering theres already a huge crowd of players using third party apps to
gain advantages,talk about the weather, I'd say the other team might be just as inclined to fiddle with their sounds settings to protect their esrs from those loud hook screams. Lol.0 -
I would like to believe if there were LAN tournaments EQ and filters would be forbidden but even if they were universally considered cheating I do not think a ban is enforceable online so the discussion is kind of pointless.
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It's not really cheating. Anyone who says so has no idea what sound even is. EQ can turn up and down volume of a spectrum, but it's not like you are completely boosting only one desired signal or reducing an undesired signal. The logical extreme is that using any kind of gaming headset over studio monitors is also cheating, since studio headsets will have a neutral sound vs a bass/mid boosted gaming headphone for instance. It's impossible to create a true 1 to 1 between players, especially online where equipment differs from one person to the next
5 -
3rd party sofware, not intended because not in the game. Easy. Cheating.
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Same like using filters, this time with sound. The only reason it's not bannable is BHVR can't really do anything about it.
If you take the game THAT serious you already lost anyway. Also, very fair with console crossplay. NOT!
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It is as this is third party, but I'd say hearing elitism in gaming is stupid and should be removed anyway
But ultimately, what is the difference between using "gaming optimized" headphone with speaker biased toward specific sound and simply emulating that through software? I don't see one really
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I'd say the software only really qualifies as cheating if it's intentionally being used to hear and find players/important objects faster. If it's just someone trying to remove Plague's vomit noises so they don't puke, please do!
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- Game uses sounds for balancing
- It's third party software not everyone has access to that can give an advantage based on the description
For DBD where sound is used for balancing yes it's blatantly cheating. It's almost comparable to stretched res where people said it was just for looks but it affected gameplay.3 -
I don't know if it's cheating per se, but it OBVIOUSLY gives you some advantage.
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No it just sounds better
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I’m surprised this is even a debate. 100% I would call that cheating. It’s an unintended and unfair advantage.
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While I'd say it gives an advantage and is therefore kind of cheating, I don't think it's a real cheat. It's like crossairs for huntress and slinger just a programm making it easier that everyone could use without problem, because it's so easy to get.
It was the same with stretched resolution for me: yes it gives an advantage, BUT everyone could easily use it if they wanted to.
So i'm on the side from hens: It's not cheating.
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It's cheating in the sense that equalizers are a cover used for wall hacking on Spirit 99% of the time. You can only boost or reduce frequencies. It's not going to target and isolate specific sounds i.e. breathing.
Talk to any EQ user. They're either a mysterious god on Spirit who won't give you their EQ settings, weirdly enough. Or they give you their EQ settings and you realize they aren't actually doing anything useful.
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I dont think so. If our standard for cheating is just a 3rd party program that gives an advantage then swf with comms would absolutely be cheating. But it obviously isnt so I dont think its fair to say filters/eq/etc are cheating. Neither give any new info they just make it easier to hear whats already there. Comparably speaking SWF with comms has a much higher advantage. which I'd like to reiterate is not cheating.
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Technically it does give an advantage over someone who doesn't use it, same as filters. I don't think it gives -that- much of an advantage, certainly nowhere near what outright cheats like wallhacks give, but it -is- cheating in my eyes.
That being said, technically using colourblind options can be argued as giving an advantage that you otherwise wouldn't have so it's not a huge deal.
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General definition of cheating:
"To act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination."
(Source: Google it)DBD definition for hacking:
"Using 3rd party software or other tools to gain any kind of unfair advantage that wasn’t intended by the game, except if they have been whitelisted by us. We are not banning for the use of communication apps."
(Source: )Definition breakdown:
Therefore, for the user of a third party program to be considered cheating/hacking by either general and developer standards, use of that third party program must meet the following conditions:
1. Must use a third party program
2. Provide the user with some form of advantage
3. Said advantage is not obtainable by the game through natural and intended means in the game
4a. Said advantage is done in an unfair or dishonest manner (general definition only)
4b. The third party program must not be whitelisted by DBD (DBD definition only)Reshade:
Reshade and reshade related programs give the user heightened visibility over certain aspects of the game above and beyond what is allowable by the game's settings alone. This gives you the ability to see trails of blood, scratch marks, survivor outlines, and more visual-aspects of the game more clearly than what would otherwise be possible.
This is a tangible benefit for the user (condition 2), using a third party program (condition 1), and is not available through natural means within the game (condition 3). It is also highly unlikely that players know you are competing with these advantages (condition 4a), and, as far as I can see, it is not whitelisted by the developers (condition 4b).
Therefore, reshade and related programs are a form of cheating by general and DBD-specific definitions.
Equalizer:
Similarly, equalizer provides the user with the ability to more finely tune and control volume settings related to the game above and beyond what is offered by the game's natural settings. This gives you an ability to, for example, hear breathing, groans of pain louder, walking, running, and other sounds louder while reducing the volume of unimportant sounds like chase music, terror radius, or ambience.This program therefore gives a tangible benefit for the user (condition 2), using a third party program (condition 1), and is not available through natural means within the game (condition 3). It is also highly unlikely that players know that you are competing with these advantages (condition 4a), and, as far as I can see, is also not whitelisted by the developers (condition 4b).
Therefore, equalizer and related programs are a form of cheating by general and DBD-specific definitions.
TLDR:
Yes, equalizer, reshade, and other third party programs that give an advantage in-game are cheating in this context. If you deny it, I'd love to know why and what you define as cheating.6 -
If the question is "Is using software to modify the audio mix of the game (when it's not possible to do so by normal/supported means) cheating?"
Then my answer is absolutely yes. I don't see how that's different than modifying the game to make traps more visible for example.2 -
yes, it’s cheating, clearly
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Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Definitely yes.
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Yeah I truly believe pc should be removed from crossplay and console should be left to play on crossplay by themselves. Constant pc hackers and cheaters using stuff like this is exactly why.
Let them play by themselves, advantages they have are too big and is another reason dbd can never be considered a competitive game
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If you have to use a 3rd party program that makes some kind of change that gives you a competitive advantage, it is cheating, pure and simple.
If filters weren't giving you a competitive advantage, then why does every comp player use it? If EQs didn't give a competitive advantage, then why does every comp player use it?
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But still, balancing around sounds are weird when we talk about accessibility every day
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I mean on one hand it is a third party software andyou absolutly get an advantage from it that is the definition of creating.
On the other hand the same technically goes for Swf using voice chat. Yeah teamspeak is allowed thats the difference but on paper it's the same.
In the end I believe it's impossible for bhvr to even do anything about it. I don't think they can just controll what other programms are running on your computer and that's what they would need to do since the program isn't interacting with dbd like an aim bot or wall hack would.
The whole thing is super difficult to deal with and i gues it will only become worse in the next few years. I don't remember when I saw it but I once saw a guy working on a ai program that was able to identify your enemy and highlight them.
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Yeah, but hearing deficits don't differentiate between most types of sounds, so I don't think we can use the fact that some people (myself included) don't hear as well as others to dismiss the question.
If you are running software to do things like essentially slapping a reverse Iron Will on survs, or amplifying the sound of the TR, muffling ambient noise that interfere with sounds you'd like to hear, etc., that's pretty clearly cheating to me.
I can't count the number of times I've been straining to listen for certain sounds and wished they were louder (or that other sounds masking them were quieter or present at all), but actually getting that wish wouldn't be fair or intended.
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I'm not dismissing anything, I'm just stating my opinion, I don't think using sound design so atrocious for balancing is good or healthy, and gaming industry in general should stop doing that kind of game design
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Devs allow Spirit to be countered by her own chase music, this noise pollution is intentional. Messing with the audio is clearly a problem.
If we can't have custom skins, why is it OK to have custom audio? Why do I have to suffer but PC players can just pick and choose their own solutions as they see fit? Who gets to draw the line?
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This is not the same as filters and I don't know why people are trying to say it is.
This is definitely cheating.
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I think hardware equalizer is still a thing? not like I recommend it or anything but probably not just a "PC players" thing
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That's totally fair, and in an ideal world it wouldn't be the way it is (and as someone with a hearing deficit I feel the impact of that design element more than most), but it is. And that being the case, some folks picking and choosing what sounds are prominent or vice versa is clearly not fair play, which is the question being posed here.
It's like people who listen to music but complain when they struggle because they make that choice; the game is what it is, and we have to account for it. But trying to change how it works in the player end isn't they way.
BHVR's general use of sound design is obviously an issue, but also a more high level discussion.
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But then the issue is: is using gaming headset cheating? because that's exactly what "choosing what sounds are prominent" is
And honestly I would say yes, just that no one can find/punish them
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this is just stretched res all over again
”no, it’s not cheating, I just think it sounds better bro”
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I don't know how this is even a debate. Using any 3rd party software to give an in game advantage is clearly cheating. It is pretty much the definition of cheating. It is one of the arguments I made against cross platform gaming when that was pushed on us.
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The problem with deciding if this is cheating is that the devs haven't weighed in, and there are enough exceptions to their stated rules (comms and crosshairs) that we can't really read their minds on this one.
Also, non-software EQs exist (so this is not PC-only, nor is it "using third party software" in all cases), and different headphones already have different frequency response so you could make the argument that choosing one set of headphones over another is "cheating" because it has a more advantageous frequency response for DBD. Some headphones and earbuds will also do dynamic range compression in hardware, which can help surface quieter sounds — is using these peripherals also cheating?
This is substantially more nuanced than "it's third party." So are visual filters, so are your monitor's contrast settings, and so on. There is a monumental difference between programs that take the signals output by DBD and modify them in some way (adding crosshairs, adjusting contrast, edge highlighting, audio EQ) and programs that peek into DBD's memory to read out the locations of players and draw them (wall-hacks). I believe the developers generally intend "third-party software" here to cover the latter case, but their public policies must necessarily be broad so that they can be sure that they cover the things they want to cover. Many environments even include system-wide audio EQs (I play on Linux and it's pretty much standard there) so you can't really even argue that you have to go out of your way to set this stuff up — it can come with the environment and be just as easy as tweaking your monitor settings.
I lean towards "not cheating" on this one, but acknowledging that the developers may have a different opinion and we should defer to theirs if they choose to express it (which I think they should).
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If that's the case, then we'll have to punish those who play at 120 fps, those who play on low settings, those who use Reshade, those with a good computer, those with better headphones, or those with a better internet connection. If it doesn't alter the game files, it's not cheating.
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It's absolutely cheating, but BHVR has a long track record of condoning cheating so long as it doesn't bypass EAC.
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This is patently false. You cannot "turn up" breathing. You can, however turn up F4000 which will affect breathing, generators, chase music, whiff sounds, flame noises, footsteps, UI sound fx, the terror radius, etc.
Notice I said it "affects" those items and not "isolates those items to raise their volume over other sounds in the game".
Take example: Stridor is a perk that specifically takes the sound source for breathing and raises it up a certain level. It is physically impossible to recreate stridor with EQ because Stridor affects the source and EQ affects the entire sound mix.
You cannot simply "raise breathing". And lmao there is no "chase music" knob on an EQ. The only accomplishment you will make with EQ is making the game sound bad. Or reduce rumble if you play on speakers and don't want your neighbors to hear your game.
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I absolutely agree with you - BHVR can't make up their mind if they want to prioritize one or the other. When you make a game where visibility and audio cues are heavily tied into balancing it makes no sense to not have a wide arrange of options to players don't use the excuse to use third party external programs.
Personally - I don't see it fully possible to balance the game with visual and auditory cues and mind and accommodate all accessibility features. One of them is going to suffer more than they should in terms of quality of life.
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