Legion could be perfectly helped to be decent at best - Quality of Life, Buffs and Others (4/8/24)
Long Story Short, with all the recent changes to some not-well-treated killers such as Singularity or recently Dredge, i think that it's a good moment to look at one of the favs killers for the new killer players, such as Legion.
This is something mainly made for both Legion Mains and new players that want to try out this killer and feel that MAYBE it needs 1 little helpy hand or 2 to be in a decent spot
I talk for majority of Legion mains when i say that we don't really want it to be GOOD, we just want them to be decent, we want to feel good when playing as them; and even if some of this ideas are a little bit dope, this is something to appreciate as a: "How good can this killer be if we put a little bit of the effort on it"
General objectives:
- Buff them in a way that new players could use their power to take that fantasy of going REALLY FAST and doing MASSIVE DAMAGE and make it more able to happened (Since nowadays, even weaker survivors can make a good teamkwork in order to counter your power, making the killer feel very close to useless) while helping advanced players in terms of chase, mobility, and pressure.
- Quality of Life changes, because, to this day, several issues have not been fixed, EVEN after the rework.
- Addons Adjustment, there's no really a BIG priority needed in terms of addons, but since we are talking about ideas to make them decent for new and older mains, bringing some new things for explore the possibilities of their power, could be a good thing
First things first, a few Quality of Life things to make them less miserable to play in the modern DBD;
- Added a event score by downing a survivor with the Fifth Hit from Feral Frenzy (+500BP)
- Now the Legion can move the camera to up and down while in the fatigue state.
- The Legion can see pools of blood during Feral Frenzy, but for a shorter duration.
- While in Feral Frenzy, The Legion can interact with the environment without losing power gauge. (Vaulting, Kicking, Snuffing Boons, Opening Lockers,Exit Gates, etc)
- Fixed the collision issues when cancelling his power, now the Legion gains collision 1 second after cancelling their power.
- Hitting a Survivor who already had the Deep Wound Status Effect will make them hindered by 5% during 8 seconds.
- Increase the movement speed during the fatigue state to 3.2m/s.
And now, the spicy part, the base kit, let's go to the speed buffs...
We all know how this is going, The Legion is fast when they get some hits, but the Initial Speed it's so low to compete with survivors these days, so, for this one, i'm cooking a little bit with some tiny Speed changes:
- Base Feral Frenzy Movement Speed:
5.6 m/s [140%] (was 5.2 [130%])
- Max Feral Frenzy Speed by Chain Hits:
6.4 m/s [160%] (was 6.0 [150%])
- Max Feral Frenzy Speed by Chain Hits while using Mural Sketch (No changes for this addon):
6.8 m/s [170%] (was 6.4 [160%])
Personal Note:
Since the whole point of Legion's Design is to chain hits, and be rewarded by that, i think that giving them a little bit of help (From 130% to 140% of speed) would make them more capable of get those deep wounds, but still making it playable for survivors.
If Legion becomes 5.8 or 6.0 at basekit, with those 10 seconds, it would be incredibly unfair to chain hits since you would be incredibly fast from scratch, and the extra speed, even if it's nerfed would be even more redundant, so i think that 5.6, getting the typical 0.2 per hit could be quite the best option here, since essentially, would be like a permanent pumpkin speed boost during your Feral Frenzy.
And now, the most wanted part for everyone... Addons! I've tried to buff the majority of them, while changing a little bit some of the addons that could be some problematic...
- Smiley Pin (REWORKED):
*Survivors with the Deep Wound status effect also suffer from the Blindness Status effect.
*If a survivor self-mends, the Blindness status effect will still remaining for the next 15 seconds.
- Defaced Smiley Pin (REWORKED):
*Survivors with the Deep Wound status effect also suffer from the Oblivious Status effect.
*If a survivor self-mends, the Oblivious status effect will still remaining for the next 10 seconds.
- Legion Pin (REWORKED):
*Survivors with the Deep Wound status effect also suffer from the Exhausted Status effect.
*If a survivor self-mends, the Exhausted status effect will still remaining for the next 5 seconds.
- Etched Ruler (REWORKED):
*Replenishes half of the power gauge when breaking a pallet or a breakable wall.
Note: Both, when using FF and Outside of FF.
- Never Sleep Pills (Adjusted):
*Set The Legion's Movement Speed to 4.4m/s.
*Set the movement speed during Feral Frenzy to 4.8m/s
*Increases the Duration of Feral Frenzy by 10 seconds.
- Julie's Mixtape (Adjusted):
*Replenishes the power gauge when getting stunned by a pallet. (Was "stunned by any means" and only during Feral Frenzy)
- Stolen Sketch Book (Buffed):
Every hit during Feral Frenzy make survivors drop their item. (Was "From the second Feral Slash onwards")
- Joey's Mixtape (Reworked):
While using Feral Frenzy:
*Increases the kicking speed action for both, Generators and Breakable Walls by 30%.
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*Now the custom music for Chase while using Joey's Mixtaoe will be playing on the B-side of the Chase Music instead of A-side.
- Frank's Mixtape (Reworked):
Applies the following effects to Feral Slash:
*Hitting a Survivor without the Deep Wound Status Effect:
-Will immediately decrease the Deep Wound Status Effect timer by 5 seconds.
*Hitting a Survivor who already had the Deep Wound Status Effect:
-Will decrease the timer by 5 seconds.
- Stab Wound Study (Reworked):
Applies the following effect to Feral Slash:
*Hitting a Survivor who already had the Deep Wound Status Effect:
-Will Reveal their aura by 8 seconds.
- Filthy Blade (Reworked):
Applies the following effect to Feral Slash:
*Hitting a Survivor who already had the Deep Wound Status Effect:
-Will make the survivor hindered by an additional 5%.
- BFFS (Buffed)
*Now the first hit grants 1 token aswell.
And here some extra things that I WOULD LIKE to see but obviously would be extremely hard to actually get to this point.
*Legion Bugs
-Every single bug found and archived by Tatariu in this video fixed (BHVR please i swear to god):
*Normal Skins:
-Added a new voice for Joey.
-Added a new voice for Susie.
*H.U.N.K.
-Added a new voice for H.U.N.K.
-Added a new and unique Memento Mori Cinematic for H.U.N.K.
-Added a new Chase Music exclusive for H.U.N.K (The layers can be still changeable by using certain add-ons)
Aaaaaaand... That's all
Thanks to @Tatariu for Inspired me to make my own thing, i had struggles with this forum site to release this post, but i'm happy knowing that now i'll leave a piece of my imagination to the community, so we can debate and talk about this killer which i can assure, is very important for many of us
So, again, that's all, thanks for reading and see you on the flipside ;)
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29/4/2024 Changes:
*Removed the Vaulting Buffs
*Removed the Mural Sketch and Susie´s Mixtape buffs
*Changed the rework idea for Frank's Mixtape
*Changed the rework idea for Smiley Pin
*Change the buff idea to BFFS.
*Some addons slightly nerfed
*Adjusted the Legion Pin to the new fixed time in the Mangled Status Effect.
2/5/2024 Changes:
*Added a collision mechanic for the fatigue state.
*Added a new interaction when hitting hooked survivors.
*Changed the Pin Addons, now all of the Pin addons work by having the Deep Wound Status effect and last for a little after mending.
*Removed the remaining ideas for Anti-Heal Addons, since that´s basically the whole point of Legion´s power, their wouldn't need addons for that.
*Reworked (Again) the Edchet Ruler Addon.
*Never Sleep Pills slightly buffed.
*Improved the description of the buffs for Stab Wound Studies, BFFS and Fuming Mixtape.
*Added a funny quote.
31/05/2024 Changes:
*Added a clarification for the interaction with the vault perks, in this rework, Vaults on Frenzy would still trigger Bamboozle or Unbound on vault, but would still being 0.9 flat (Except for NSP, which now would increase the vault speed)
*Reworked the Never Sleep Pills to make it a brand new addon based on being a Jack of All Trades in exchange of a major nerf on the fatigue state
*Reworked Joey's Mixtape, since Undetectable addons would be redundant having Susie´s Mixtape, the new version would still being a good combo for Susie's Mixtape itself but now for a new speed boost instead of a quirky status effect.
*Adjusted the duration of the status effect on the Pins, now when you selfmend from deep wound, the effect would remain for 15, 10 or 5 seconds for the Smiley Pin, Defaced Smiley Pin or Legion Pin respectively.
*Removed the Buff to Fuming Mixtape
04/08/2024
*Long Story short, reworked almost the whole thing to make it more straightfoward to the point.
*Reworked the function of several addons to make them more fair and realistic.
Comments
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all of the things you said make the legion faster and stronger than blight. are you crazy ? legion is already a pain to face with how much she can spam her ability and the mending simulator and she is even worse with thanatophobia it take ages to do gens she doesn't need to be stronger.
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Why exactly would you want to buff a killer that is as simple and easy to learn/master up to A tier? A killers strenght should be somewhat equivalent to how hard he is to learn/play properly... Legion is one of the easiest killers in the game, with very little depth, why on earth should be as strong as killers that need time put into learning their abilites? Besides that with all those changes he not only stays as annoying as he is to play against, he becomes even more annoying... Just no.
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Lmao please no.
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This is not stronger than blight since he still gets countered by survivors spreading out and he has no power to down.
If you want to make legion A tier he needs some kind of power to down an injured guy, since he gets so wrecked by people spreading out and then just normal looping.
That said, your changes are risky since maps are getting smaller with reworks and I cannot know without testing, but if we pushed legion's frenzy too much then he would just simply be able to down every time he used it with little counter play. BUT, if 1 survivor dies then this part goes away and then he literally has no power to down, so then games would depend on how much he could use the 4 hit down to down people fast enough to get a guy out of the game and have a 3v1.
In short, buffing his frenzy to make him A tier is not the right way to go about it, because it opens up so many design problems. To do it, you need to give him some kind of power to down an injured guy.
You clearly put a lot of effort into this, so please take this as my feedback and not criticism.
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Checked ;)
I reworked Frank's Mixtape into an actual chase addon, and i invented a collision mechanic for the fatigue state, so Legion can actually use the vaulting mechanic for chases.
Aditionally, i reworked Legion Pin into an Exhaust Addon, so these kinds of perks like Lithe o DH (Obviously after mending) would not be effective at all or at least not that consistent0 -
I like these changes, pretty nice
Frank's Mixtape is back, damn I miss this addon a bit.
Also the pills adjustment is pretty interesting
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I just think Legion is missing one thing that makes him put in a good spot. Getting a down after 5 hits feels good and rewarding but that’s it. That’s the problem he’s still just a M1 killer with constant injures.
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i will nerver understand that. why do characters that are simpler to learn need to be leagues worse then difficult characters?
and dont say that there is no reason to play the difficult ones then. dbd has no ranked there is no competiton you play a killer cause you think that killer is fun. there will always be players that like to play stuff that is more difficult and so will there be players that like the simple stuff. yes a difficult character has all rights to be a bit stronger if you master it but every character should be on a baseline when it comes to balance.
there should not be diffrence between the killers that is so big that we can group some of them all the way down to f tier. why cant all killers be c+ to b tier? end then let blight and nurse level of difficult be a tier. still a whole tier higher then the rest but no killer is worthless
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Because either you learn a hard character then you have a hard time learning him, but the whole thing will go smoother once you learned the character.
Or you play an easy character where the hard part is getting a good result in the match after you learned everything there is... The question is just what type do you prefer.
The point is that very hard killers like Singularity or Billy before his 2nd rework don't get played often because they are so hard, so there needs to be some sort of payoff for people to play a character.
I don't think it is that problematic to buff weaker killers... But up to A tier? On a killer with basically no depth like Legion? The killer is quite straight forward and so is the counterplay, if you buff him that much, what exactly are survivors supposed to do? He would be the ultimate pub stomper… if a killer is really strong but requires 0 effort to perform well with, how exactly is that fair for the survivors? Now they suddenly have a rough time and no clue what to do, aside from what is quite obviously already the play against Legion... You get what I mean? Now the killer is strong but people still don't enjoy going against him, but just lose more often.
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i don't think these changes will be even close to making him A-tier. He basically makes his Frenzy 10% faster and changes some addons. Legion isn't and will never be a top tier killer because of his nature - vaulting pallets and windows like a survivor.
Overall these changes are pretty simple, Addons are mostly nice, I don't like the Exhaust Status Effect on The Legion pin tho.
These changes are definitely not going to make him OP, but more fun to play, thats all.
Oh, and to the author of the Post, What about adding some type of Fatigue addon? For example reducing fatigue by a small amount for each chained hit? That could be a pretty fun addon :DD
And talking about Quality of Life - you could reduce the tunnel vision in fatigue a little bit.
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I am NOT gonna lie, i would love to make a new fatigue addon to have 4 options for chase (This idea, Old Frank's back, Iri and Legion Pin), however, i'm taking the words from Tat when i asked him for something similar a looooooong time ago, i asked why don't just bring old Joey's, and he basically said that if they cook an addon like that nowadays, EVERYONE would be using that addon and it would be almost like a "Map of the Realm" to Legion
Tat itself added the "Hand Wraps" addon, and he recently turned it into a fatigue addon, but honestly, not a big fan, HOWEVER, i could actually use your idea for a QoL addon, i think you gave me an idea :D
About the Legion Pin… ehhhhh idk man, i know that Exhaustion can be a lil bit toxic but 1) it´s a Green addon so is accurate to the effect and 2) Broken is so inconsistent to stay in the set of addons of this killer, honestly ALL forms of anti-healing should be removing from this collection of addons, so that's the best that comes to mind.
And yeah, i totally forgot about the blurr, black, annoying effect on screen during fatigue, changing that also soon 👍️1 -
I never said they would... I just disagreed with the idea to make him basically top tier despite being as easy as he is.
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And that's also why i changed the "To A tier" to "Something close to B+ (OR EVEN A TIER)"
I was a lil bit insane wanting to make it that consistent, but essentially, these changes, at least right now, would just make them less awful to play, more fun to pick up, and less frustating to play, in a decent spot where they could be close to killers like Doctor for example
I know, sometimes the easier killers should be also the weakest, but on the other hand, since we are getting more used to killers kinda easy to pick up and a lil bit strong too, i think that a QoL updrage to Legion could make them less miserable to the people who already has invested their hours into them and could also make them a more interesting proposal of a new killer to main for some people too1 -
from your core changes, this basically only one I would use:
*While in Feral Frenzy, The Legion can interact with the environment without losing power gauge. (Vaulting, Kicking, Snuffing Boons, Opening Lockers,Exit Gates, etc)
Otherwise it's either useless, or overkill.
Legion is one of my main killers and I don't really want BHVR to touch them in any way other than creating more skins… I am completely fine with their current state, even addons.
There is several other killers, that need attention more, even at risk of getting screwed.
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Use Never Sleep Pills if you want extended range
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I prefer Mischief List + Mural Sketch
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the only thing that i want is for them to give me back thana. then im 100% fine with the way legion is
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