Decisive Strike nerfed again...
From the devlog:
- [CHANGE] Reduced stun duration to 4 seconds (was 5 seconds).
Dev
note: Our last update increased the stun duration to 5 seconds. This
was a little too effective, so we have fine tuned the stun duration to 4
seconds instead.
DS was "a little too effective"? You mean, when I stun a Nurse with DS, and she downs me again in less than 3 seconds after the stun is over? :)
Seriously though, DS doesn't need a number tweaking. It needs to disable killers' powers buttons. By default, those are M2 and CTRL. Disable those for X seconds when hit by DS, just like killers can't use their powers while carrying a survivor.
Comments
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That sounds like a nurse problem. Are you advocating for 5s stun on top of disabling killer powers?
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It wasn’t “too effective” for anti-tunnel, but it was too effective for offensive use/when not being tunneled.
I don’t know if 4 second stun is exactly what I would’ve done to change it but it did need an adjustment. I agree that it should disable the killer’s power buttons for a few seconds though.
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Nope, I've commented before on a few forums threads that 3s stun + disabling killers powers for x seconds would be good. But if killers' powers are not disabled, then any second stun is not gonna cover tunneling by all sorts of killers.
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My idea of an update to DS that would make (hopefully) most people happy:
• The stun will be 5 seconds. End. Of. Discussion.
• DS will disable every killer power for 5/7/10 seconds after the stun ends.
• Survivors will lose DS if:
- They touch a generator.
- They take a protection hit.
- The endgame starts.
Thoughts?
1 -
Killer proxy camps the hook, survivor comes to rescue, gets hit in the unhook animation, killer hits the unhooked survivor, unhooked survivor took a "protection" hit and DS deactivates.
The bodyblocking issue could be solved if the survivor simply loses collision during their basekit endurance period, survivor could get a bigger speed boost in return in case killer decides to clip inside this survivor until their endurance runs out.5 -
This is a wildly uncreative way to handle a problem that does not exist. Sometimes it's advantageous for a survivor to body block. Sometimes a killer is backed into a corner and needs to get someone out of the game. It's all about player agency and the more you remove the more you dumb the game down and make it less interesting. Decisions cease to be decisions and it just becomes an unengaging flowchart funneling you down options that have been decided for you. It's bad for the game.
2 -
So your idea is to buff it even more?
They take a protection hit
This would be really bad. If I am around the hook and hit survivors trying to rescue, if I hit that hooked survivor ASAP, it will always be counted as protection hit. So this would punish completely wrong group. Killers who wanted to tunnel from beginning would ignore it completely.
4 -
That's an option too.
My ears are bleeding hearing the 1001 discussions about why 5 second DS is busted when used offensively and whatnot, so this change was basically an attempt to shut these people up.
But yeah, if the survivor just lost collision with the killer, they can't bodyblock even if they want to.
1 -
As mentioned already, this was an attempt to satisfy the people repeating over and over about how DS is busted (also, these threads achieved the new DS nerf). Forgot about the campers tho.
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Hey, nice try. I am just saying how I would break it, it's just clear flaw.
My suggestion some time ago was 3 seconds stun, then 3 seconds power disabled. Basically so all killers are affected same +/-.
3 seconds against pure M1 killers is more than enough in my opinion.
When it is only stun, best killers in the game are affected by this way less than worst killers.3 -
And then some killer players just want an early 3v1 every game which makes the tunneled survivor start 2 out of their 3 chases wounded while the killer breathes down their neck. And the 3 other survivors are forced into a gen rush race against time since a 3v1 is more or less a loss at anything other than 1 generator worth of progress left or less.
We're talking about these measures limiting player agency, but this is a textbook example of player agency being severely limited just because one player decided the game will play out like this. Minimal interaction with other survivors, they are railroaded into one action or they automatically lose.2 -
Somewhere on here a dev said it would be too complicated to disable a killer's powers and there would be issues with monitoring how it would effect strong and weak killers.
2 -
I would be fine with this nerf, if it also reset certain mobility killer's power like nurse ans blight tokens, so they cannot immediately used it after been stun. But That Is It! No more changes, as I am sick of the complain that DS is overpowered or it is worthless. Just accept that it is supposed to be a anti tunneling perk and that's that.
7 -
Seems like this effect should just be inherent to those killers for stuns in general. Both have mechanisms to bypass pallets, don't care vs. DS, Head On, or flashlight saves...all of them are hard to hit on these killers and should be rewarded.
Though with Blight now nerfed again... I'm a little more reluctant to throw another nerf on him right now. However Nurse I think is fair, any stun and she loses all power tokens.
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I don’t really like this change. 5 sec stun on a killer tunneling is totally fine. The real issue is getting hit by DS when you’re not tunneling, which happens very, very often. Making it 4 seconds causes it to be worse against the tunnelers and solve nothing for the people incorrectly getting hit by it.
Keep it 5 seconds but make it turn off if another survivor is hooked.
4 -
I would rather ask for any stun to disable killer power/remove tokens
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Sorry if my response sounded too agressive to you.
But this perk. This. Perk.
It kind of represents this game. No matter what you do, people get angry at you.
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yeah, I read that post from the dev. And then I heard someone elsewhere suggest to just disable the buttons for killers' powers instead - M2 and CTRL by default. That simplifies the whole thing tremendously.
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What about stepping in Trapper traps?
The rest seems OK and I really like that idea. I would not make it longer than 10s though.
2 -
Trapper's traps (or even Hag traps) aren't exactly a "catch-up" tool. The (theoretical) DS stun would not do anything to previously set traps as they can hardly be used to negate DS like Blight's/Billy's Rushes and Dashes or other Killers's projectiles.
The baseline for the code is already in the game in the form of Refined Serum (temporarily replaces Killer power with one-use speed burst) all they have to do is replace "speed boost" with "nothing" or "play x sound effect to announce to the player their power is disabled" alongside tweaking the duration.
Scott made a video on it already and he had good points.
2 -
I don't think that's a big problem. Except for the killer shack (with basement) being completely shut down by traps. But that's another problem.
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I hope BHVR will start considering the entire range of killers (weakest to strongest) when changing perks. In this case, Decisive Strike can't cover them all just by changing the stun time. 3 second stun means the tuneneled survivors suffer. 5 second stun means the weak M1 killers suffer.
3 second stun + disabling M2 and CTRL sounds like a good idea. A Trapper wouldn't even go for setting a trap after being DS-ed, he would try to get an M1 down. So he wouldn't be hurt by the disabling of killers' powers. On the other hand, Huntress, Nurse, Blight, Deathslinger etc. don't care much about the 5 second stun, since they can use their M2/CTRL to quickly nullify the DS value. They precisely would get in control with this disabling of killers' powers, since they would have to walk and try for an M1, until they can use their powers.
Parts of killers' powers that are outside of M2 and CTRL don't matter, in my opinion. Those happen naturally, and are not really under the control of the killer.
1 -
The devs already said they will never do that as killer powers should never be affected by a perk.
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Calm Spirit: invalidates the info of screams (and by proxy most of Doctor's power) essentially making the Killer just hope the Survivors are new enough for weird skill checks to make a difference.
Iron Will/any perk that affect scratch marks/blood/noise: effective counter to Spirit phasing.
(Not quite a perk but worth a mention) flashlight can kick Legion out of their power and Champion of Light can make this even stronger. Tough to do but possible.
Head-on and Flashbang can respectively kill & blind Nemesis's zombies, which provides both info and slowdown (weak and unreliable they may be, it's still part of his kit).
Post edited by Skillfulstone on2 -
What should be done is to take a look at the times when tunneling is actually needed before buffing perks like OTR (long time ago) or DS. If you have only 2 hooks and 1 gen remaining, you 200% need to take someone out fast as hell.
And no, please, dont bring the "just play better bro/you should just have played better". If you bring that argument then just remove DS/OTR/Anti-camp mechanic/Basekit BT and lets just say "just play better, if the killer never downs you then you will never get camped/tunneled".
There are moments where tunneling is needed and BHVR have said its a valid strategy, same as camping or slugging. By just wearing the "Mr Nice Guy hat" and spreading every hook you are just shooting yourself in the leg as the killer and making your own game worse.
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Once again, they nerf the wrong thing. The duration was fine. If anything they could have increased the stun time even more. But get rid of bodyblocking with DS.
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Yeah, aggressive use of DS has been silly. This week I've had teammates who threw just to DS the killer. I unhooked a Feng with Borrowed Time and Babysitter. She had incredible protection from that and could have left the hook, I was even catching the killer's attention. Instead, she stayed at the loop and walked, and did her best to bait DS. And she did.
I also had a Feng who got downed after being unhooked. The killer chased the people who were trying to pick her up. I managed to get to her, and would have picked her up, but she kept interrupting the heal. She wanted to DS the killer so bad. In the end, the killer picked her up after her DS timer expired, and then she DC-ed, I'm pretty sure.
I also had a Steve who could have picked me and another person (we were downed), but instead he just stood where killer could see him, and then proceeded to enter the locker and pull off the DS followed by Head On.
Anyway, I agree, you should lose collision with the killer when you have DS, or something like that, so the killer knows it's better to leave you alone, and also that you can't bodyblock for others.
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IMO all stuns, not only DS should remove killer power, not by disabling it, but removing power tokens
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Instead of adding this feature to DS just make it a Nurse feature.
Make it so: If Nurse gets stunned by any means her blink charges are set to zero and only begin recovering after the stun is over.
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That was actually the scenario I had in mind, but wanted to keep it universal.
Ever since they removed i-frames from DH traps are difficult to deal with if you are hooked in shack basement. I know that you get i-frames with DS too but depending on where you are downed in shack, it may not be enough. And unless a teammate is clever enough to "hold the trap" there is no escape. And we all know how clever random mates are in this game.
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YYeah But let's be honest do we need to do anything that nerfs trapper?
Closing of the shack is the one thing a trap killer should absolutly rock
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I think this is a good decision.
Before the buff I thought: Why they are not trying 4 seconds first? Ok, they want to test it and maybe nerf it later. Well and thats happened. It's still a buff.
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it should have stayed at 3 seconds
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Huntress and Deathslinger don't have tokens… Disabling M2 and CTRL takes care of that.
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Huntress actually have tokens. Its not called tokens specifically but those are tokens used for power and replenished in the lockers. Deathslinger have low range that you propably should escape from during stun. Tho some testing in ptb would be needed.
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