How did killers manage to win when gen lasted for 80 seconds?

Well first off a lot of killer were not winning back then and it got so bad to a point basically no one was playing killer and survivor ques would be 20+ minuets just to find 1 match. That's what prompted the big buff patch in the first place.

But besides that, regression was a lot stronger and certain killers had absolutely disgusting add-ons like old Iri Hatchets.

Survivors playing badly was true but back then they were so strong it didn't really matter. Nowadays those same survivors either learned to play better or are losing a ton now because they refused to.

Matchmaking could also still give you really bad survivors even at red ranks since all it really required was playing the game a decent amount. I got to red ranks in like 2-3 weeks of starting the game which was wild. Similar story with most of my friends. One of them took like 2-3 months but they were pretty cheeks at the game even once they did make it.

It was basically use a busted set up if your killer could, play Nurse, get exceptionally bad survivors, or lose by default. Now it's generally better balance wise.

Tl;dr they either got lucky or were using something ridiculous that even survivors back then couldn't handle. At least assuming competent survivors.

Every time this comes up, people act like healing was a timesink before.

You could heal yourself significantly faster than someone else healing you, multiple times a match, for very little overall investment. CoH only needed to be blessed once, by one person, and then everyone on the team could use it to heal SIGNIFICANTLY faster than 16 seconds each time.

Healing was a reasonably balanced timesink if you only looked at the sub-optimal (but still balanced) setups. The actual optimal setups just deleted any pressure from injuries with very little investment, and those two optimal tools were the only ones nerfed. Healing overall wasn't, and altruistic healing was buffed.

Healing wasn't meaningful slowdown while those tools existed, and, separately from that, now is not so weak that it isn't worth it. There are perfectly good healing tools, and those haven't even changed. There are even good self healing tools, they just aren't broken anymore.

Not gonna lie,looking back I'm surprised I ever got kills on Old Cornwind with Old Legion with 4x old Dead Hard and 4x Iron Will.

That Era of "survivors never group up ever and are silent and invincible" was terrible and often felt like it was impossible to get any sort of pressure going when nobody cares enough to heal.

We have it really good these days.

The killrate was 50% now it's 60%. It was harder.

CoH stacked with medkits, though. The only ways to fix that problem would be to either make CoH so restrictive that its number cannot be changed by any means, or to just remove the self heal entirely.

Personally, I think either would've been valid directions and both would've resulted in people claiming the perk was trash.

The point is, there was no timesink that got taken away. CoH wasn't ever used on its own by just one person, people ran medkits too, because of course they did. Why wouldn't they, when something so broken is so easily accessible? Hypothetically, sure, you'd see a timesink with CoH alone, but that timesink never realistically existed. Survivors absolutely healed up before getting on gens, because that took hilariously little time to do and they could do it alone. That wasn't balanced, and frankly, survivors staying injured is perfectly fine, you can capitalise on that as a killer.

As a brief aside, self heal base time wasn't adjusted. I'm not sure if you're referring to medkits and medkits alone being nerfed, or the PTB change that didn't go to live, but either way there's no change to self heal base time.

From the 6.7 notes

• General Healing
  • Increase Survivor heal interaction seconds to charge from 16 to 24 seconds.
  • Decrease the bonus on successful Healing skill checks from 5% to 3%.

That's a 50% increase in time.

They never actually changed the base healing time though? It was tested on a PTB and was widely unpopular, so they reverted it and put a speed penalty on Medkits instead.

Well that revert apparently didn't filter over to the medkits because they're still 24 charges to self-heal. Which is overkill couple that with CoE self-heal being removed, and it's lead to this ' get off the hook and sit on a gen' mentality we're seeing. Which has shortened the games and made it less fun for both sides.

Yeah don't mention the ludicrous amount of benefits that survivors now have - Basekit BT, anticamp, endless pallets and windows, 3 gens done after an easy W-key 90 second chase lol

Okay, but a surprising amount of the playerbase also doesn't seem to realise that the base healing nerf DIDN'T happen, so it's clearly possible that people agreeing healing isn't worth it anymore might not actually mean it's true.

As for people staying injured, it's fine. Unless they're bringing some of the unbalanced repair speed tools, which would be a problem anyway, them staying injured is a risk and something I can capitalise on as a killer.

It's worth mentioning that, anecdotally, survivors absolutely heal in my matches no matter which role I'm playing. I still see quite a few medkits specifically, too, because despite popular discourse on the forums, people in game seem to understand that they're still perfectly worth using and quite strong. Honestly, I even see some CoH still- I run it in solo queue, but I am a bit of an outlier. Even so, it does show up sometimes.

Healing tools are pretty good right now, you just can't self heal in broken speeds anymore. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying the current state of healing. I'm simply pointing out that faster gen speeds in spite of various gen speed/perk nerfs directly correlate to the lower amount of healing.

Yes people still heal. No one is saying, healing has totally vanished from DBD altogether. But very few are still running across the map to get in the boon aura to self-heal. The people using charge add-ons with their medkits instead of speed add-ons are no longer healing themselves for 16 seconds (which was more reasonable to me) after each hit and unhook. Since they now have 2 heals max (without using perks).

This is alot of wasted time that now goes right into the first gen they come across not in the killers terror radius. The only thing that will fix the speed is the lure of survivability. Or annoying killer mechanics that will lead to more 4% and DCs (i.e SM).

I don't know, this does seem to rest on the assertion that there IS a spike of faster gen speeds.

I don't think I've noticed that, though. Survivors still spend time healing, survivors still generally stick on gens if I don't give them something else to do, my games don't feel like they're any faster than before. In fact, the last time my average game time changed (at least in a way I could notice) was 6.1.0. when they got a bit longer.

As an aside, nobody before was spending 16 seconds on a heal after hit and unhook, they were spending less. Slightly less if they only brought one speed addon for a regular medkit, and considerably less if they had a green medkit and/or more than one speed addon, which wasn't hard so people did it a lot. Again, there is no appreciable amount of wasted time that used to be spent on healing but now isn't, because healing was absurdly fast before.

That's the most important part of my argument, so I'll repeat it: The time that people invested in healing before 6.7.0 was minimal. It did not translate to appreciably slower gen speeds, because the downtime was so short. That was the entire problem 6.7.0 was fixing.

I'll also repeat that survivors choosing to stay injured and do gens is, on its own, perfectly fine when it happens. Assuming there aren't other problems with gen speeds, that gives the killer room to react.

To be honest, the whole game has changed a lot since then.

Perks, maps, mechanics, add-ons.

It's hard to say if it's easier or harder because it's a complete package.

I would say it's different and you have to adapt, which is a good thing.

Because they've changed one thing for the benefit of the killer/survivor, they've also changed other things for him in a negative way.

I can only remember that it was hard as a killer because the gens were literally flying. The loops were very violent.

As for healing, it always depends on the situation. Basically, you never want everyone to be injured so you can hang out. If the first person is dead, you'll usually have to focus on the Gens, because it's all about hanging, being chased, and rescuing. Healing only makes sense if you can stall the killer for at least 32 seconds or if you have to repair in a dead zone.

Overall, I think the game is better than it used to be.

The only thing I don't understand is why they don't rework weak killers/perks or killers/perks that are too strong. Sometimes they change things that are fine and don't touch things that really need it.

Then there would be more variety again.

This is all quite the exaggeration.

The reason the game has gotten easier for killers is because back then the game was pretty damn survivor sided, so the game needed more changes in favor of the killer than in favor of survivor.

Also, survivors have gotten good things that weren't nerfed afterwards. Most of the times, the only things that got nerfed were stuff that were overpowered, like Made for This for example.

There is also definitely not a huge skill gap between survivor and killer. Both roles can be equally challenging and skillful. It is true that at low ranks killers have an easier time, but that's because of the game's design.