Will you stop the tunneling already.
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Pain Res + Pop are actually excellent perks which reward you for getting downs. No other perk does that. Tunneling is the only other slowndown which does more than those 2 perks. But as long as you keep 4 survivors alive, they will all repair gens as fast as if you haven't hooked them yet. They can be on 2nd hook but have no penalty whatsoever.
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I agree about the baseline bp bump - I’d even say make it so the category for ‘success’ isn’t just about escaping - I would imagine many casuals can still gain satisfaction from their games even if (like me) they end up dying 99% of their matches.
I run a discord server with c. 150+ people (all casuals and in game friends - we don’t do voice comms, just chat randomly while playing and a vehicle for finding people to play with when tired of pure solos) and I can honestly say nobody cares too much about if they ‘destroyed killers’ (in fact about half the peeps are friends I made who are killer mains but had fun with - and I don’t mean through just farming or being ‘friendly’ killers’). I think most people like the horror experience but it just isn’t that great to be tunnelled and slugged. As things stand (emphasis on this) it is a game mechanic to be slugged and camped to a degree so no point blaming killers.
The consensus amongst my server and through my own observations is that repeatedly being subjected to perceived bm (tunnelling, slugging, flashlight, sabo, teabags etc) tends to perpetuate a mentality of us v them and the build up of frustration means at some point people end up doing these things themselves as retaliation against someone - then the cycle repeats.
sorry kind of went of topic but you’re a vet on this forum (and I always have your name in mind when facing myers lol).
Would be interesting to hear your thoughts.3 -
Do the survs want to win? Yes.
Do the killers want to win? Yes.
Can survs do gen rush? Yes.
Can killers do tunnel? Yes.
I dont see a problem here. Sometimes im playing 2 perks blight no gen perk but survs do gen rush and i dont cry about that. I cant do nothing about that and if they want to escape then they have to repair gens. Isnt it? Killers have to kill survs thats all. You cant do nothing about that. Also they removed losing pips
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That's right. In the end, it's all an ouroboros.
Survivors want to feel good by overwhelming the killer and escaping.
Killers want to achieve an overwhelming victory by killing everyone.
To achieve this, survivors execute GenRush,
and killers resort to tunneling and slugging.
But both of these strategies are within the rules of the game. That's why the debate will continue forever..4 -
Firstly, ignore the antagonising comments.
Maybe you're looking at this problem from the wrong angle. You're trying to get tomes done and you're being targeted. What do you think you're doing wrong to cause yourself to be targeted?
From my experience I've learnt the killer selectively targets one of 7 factors initially:
- A weak/new survivor (bad at loops etc)
- An aggressive survivor Saboing/body blocking hooks every time they attempt a hook
- A survivor repairing a gen instantly when spawning in and not allowing the killer to do their first gen rotation
- Streamer
- Person with the toolbox/Flashlight
- The first person they see/closest
- Noisy survivors (scratch marks/vaulting etc)
Decide which criteria you fit into at the start and here's how you counter it:
- Take advantage of the aggression and practise hugging everything and get better in chases
- Try not to over extend yourself and have protection perks, test them, if they don't work, try others in the next game until they do
- Delay the repair until the killer has done his initial gen round and stay hidden and away from audio distance
- If you're a streamer it's just luck, got to pray you're better or teammates help cause the killer has a diff type of anger lol
- Stay hidden and out of audio distance
- Stay hidden and out of audio distance
- Reduce noise
If your issue is looping, Exize on YT is probably the best for teaching you checkspots, loops and their types, and other very useful bits of information. (Click title of the vid and it will show playlist on the right on YT)
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I haven't seen much tunneling at all lately. Definitely more of an exception than a rule, at least in my solo q survivor matches. By far my biggest problem has been terrible, useless teammates that refuse to touch gens or immediately give up the first time they get downed.
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Ah, another one gifted with the Sight®. You are correct. Continue on this path of wisdom <3
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No, like I said in my latest comment, I played some matches with a friend earlier today, and it was like the polar opposite from yesterday. I guess it is all about the luck of the draw (or luck of the matchmaking) in this case.
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Just throw on a bunch of anti tunnel perks and the rest of the games you have today won't have a single tunneling killer because that's how BHVR operates
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Sounds like the type of player to think the killer is "tunneling" any time someone happens to get hooked twice
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Very true as almost anything in game that hinders your opponent can be seen as some form of antagonism. The more one sided its feels the greater the sense of antagonism.
I'm afraid there is a one sided aspect to a lot of survivor play. You don't have control over whether a killer leaves you on the ground or picks you up, leaves or defends (AKA camps) the hook, chooses to chase you or someone else (AKA tunnelling). But that's kind of the point of the game.
DBD emulates a survival horror. You are at the whim of the killer and trying to escape, just like a horror movie. I enjoy DBD because of this, when playing either role.
Unfortunately this can breed resentment among players, especially if they feel targeted. That resentment is projected onto their opponents (and/or teammates) and we go from I don't like this mechanic, to anyone who does this is a *insert chosen expletive*.
Similarly anytime the killer feels not in control it breeds the same resentment and experienced survivor play is personified as "Bully squads".
Players will often engage in the most obnoxious of one sided play themselves even as they bemoan it from their opponents, either out of frustration, or some misguided sense of tit-for-tat justice, or just simple lack of personal insight etc… I don't pretend to assume a player's motivation. But round the merry-go-round we go, for one begets the other.
There is likely only a very narrow bandwidth of players whom are genuinely "bully squads" or malicious players (killer or survivor) out purely to ruin the fun. But we've created the boogieman and now we see him everywhere.
It clouds a lot of discussion about gameplay and mechanics. I do wonder if the opponent was a really hard to beat AI using every tactic to its maximum and not a person, would people still get so riled up over gameplay?
Your discord sever sounds awesome by the way.
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I mean, the tunnelling (and by proxy Survivors going next more often) is a direct result of many changes that started with the "Anti-3-gen" implemented in 7.5.0, the regression limit killed most regression perks and many non-regression kick perks overnight leaving Pop and Pain Res the only viable slowdown options for Killers on the weaker end of the spectrum, there's a reason Surge and Eruption are barely seen compared to before.
Then STBFL and Sloppy/all Mangled & Hemorrhage add-ons (both good perks that the top-tiers didn't use that often due to being M1-based perks) got nerfed hard so non-regression options were further reduced (at higher MMR, Survivors won't heal through the Mangled/Hemorrhage and will simply slam gens until they can heal at normal speed, making the perk almost worthless after a certain threshold of experience).
Then later Ultimate Weapon was nerfed into oblivion (literally never saw a single Killer using this in my games since the nerf) so another one of the perks that was used to stay in chase often instead of relying on gen-slowdown was killed, further reducing options.
And now the devs want to nerf the last few slowdown perks remaining. How are weaker/M1 Killers supposed to compete against decent teams with less and less options to slow down gens other than playing more aggressively?
I hate the current state of the game that started in 7.5.0 and worsened to this day, perk variety died and the Anti-3-gen, despite being a good idea on paper, killed variety by working the whole trial, if it only kicked-in at 2 gens left (to account for area-denial Killers and nasty 4-gen spawns in smaller maps) it would open the doors to non-regression kick perks and other regression perks again while still preventing endless games and remove some pressure from the weaker Killers.
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Spoken like a true pragmatist and I whole heartedly agree.
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I've been playing for well over 3 years and tunnelling has probably been the most prominent complaint I've seen in that time. I personally don't see it that much (according to my stats about 1 in every 12 games) but thinking this started with update 7.5 is just plain wrong lol and the big perk overhaul update of 6.1 happened because of lack of variety in perks and builds. Again, not a direct result of 7.5. It went much further back than that.
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The tunnelling didn't start at 7.5.0, I never said that.
Tunnelling got worse since then though. There's always been tunnelling and there always will be as long as there's bitter players and/or too little options. But I've been playing since shortly after Myers came out (took a several months break shortly before Trickster release when I got tired of being threatened or called slurs every other game) and in the last couple months I've seen, went through, and heard so many people saying tunnelling is almost as bad as the first few weeks after DS was nuked. And it makes sense.
If the options other than tunnelling are getting less effective and numerous there's bound to be an increase especially for weaker/M1 Killers that are more reliant on perks than the powerhouses. It's just logical even if nobody likes it. Even Killer players don't like it because the game is becoming more and more stressful against decent Survivors if not playing aggressively, especially as a Killer on the weaker side.
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WIth the choas shuffle active tunneling has come back for me since there a 1 in 140 chance I get DS. Mix that with some camping.
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Back when I started in 2018, there were tunnelers back then too, but it was not as prominent as it is today. Then again, survivors were A LOT stronger at the time. Old DS that could be activated before first hook, and no deactivation upon doing objectives. Old Dead Hard, old BT, and so many other crazy strong survivor perks. Self-Care used to be 50% normal speed back then (60% with Botany). Old med-kits, old toolboxes (with up to 180 charges), moonlight offerings, 4-man hatch escapes.
Killers had the old Ruin, which could slow the game down a lot, even more so than PR+Pop since most survivors were running around looking for the totem. Hex builds were awesome. Nurse was crazy strong, with omega-blink. Silent Spirit, the ultimate jumpscare. OG Billy, though the current version is pretty close to him.
Anyways, things were a lot more OP back then, on both sides, so tunneling wasn't that necessary, especially in the low-middle ranks, where most casual players were.4
