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So slugging is still a boring thing
So faced a Bright who basically slugged when one gen went by so gotta spend four minutes on the ground doing nothing I recovered to max its really REALLY annoying I'm not dcing because I don't want a penalty so fun fact BHVR why not make a prompt for survivors to use if the killer slugs. They get replaced by a bot but they keep all the BP they earned. "Killer's don't slug often so there's no reason to make something for it." Yet the made something for camping that hasn't gotten rid of it all it did was get rid of face camping. I would rather enjoy playing the game then waiting ten years on the ground doing nothing all because one gen was repaired.
Comments
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Were they just slugging you? Or was it their play style to down and never hook anyone until they had all 4 down?
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They slugged everyone. Pulled the hold Nurse(they were Blight though) route of Infectious fright and refused to pick anyone up. We weren't even that close to the down survivor and no one brought a flashlight also they weren't near a pallet.
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why you dont bring boon or unbreakable or no mither or anything. you can deal with slugging, If you have no perk? Killers are the same.
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Bhvr REALLY needs to cut loose with the built-in unbreakable we were told was coming like a year ago. This repeated, multiple team mate slugging until death is ridiculous. I also think there should never be more than 2 slugs. a 3rd goes down the 1st pops back up. Slugging a whole team and BMing them for 4 min should just never be a possibility.
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Only after they remove all 15 extra health states for survivors. Slugging works so fine because most of survivors' god-mode perks, which they like to abuse for bodyblocking, activate after unhooks, and some really BMing perks work only when you pick up a body. The infamous sabo build many bully squads abuse is also countered by slugging and by slugging only, and I don't need to remind you about flashlight saves. They gave survivors so much literal immunity that slugging seems to be the only viable option how to play against SWF and not feel miserable and humiliated for the whole trial.
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They've said before that idea was scrapped and not coming.
Built in Unbreakable is not good for the game. There are some scenarios where slugging is necessary (survivor constantly running to corner with no hooks, Sabo and Boil Over teams).
Instead they should just give you the option to bleed out while slugged after a minute so you can avoid being slugged for 4 minutes and move on (And also help your teammate when being slugged for the 4K).
Scott Jund also had a pretty good idea of being able to "push limits" and gain a movement speed boost while crawling at the cost of rapidly decreasing your bleed out timer.
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They tested it on the PTB and survivors abused it heavily so they rightfully scrapped it.
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Expect to see more slugging in the future as the devs refuse to get rid of the worst slugging perks while simultaneously nerfing perks that require the killer to hook.
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When it comes to nerfing its one the thing of nerf if it's becoming a lot but also look back on old perks that should get some kind of touch up I hate the current killer meta because constantly facing it can be boring. But nerfing the perks isn't always the answer sometimes its just taking old perks and putting a bit of love to it. An example I can think of is Distortion the perk sucked no one touched it but they changed it to have the same effect but make sure it was useful. That's what BHVR should do instead of constantly nerfing the meta figure out perks that should get some kind of touch up to at least make the meta a lot larger so there are more options.
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Just add the feature to give up on slugging you can do it already with hooking
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If you really hate slugging there are perks to help you pick yourself up, or hope your teammates can help get you up. A killer being able to slug all 4 survivors tends to only happen if there's a big skill gap between the killer and survivors, and is more a matchmaking issue than anything else.
If all the players are similar in skill it's very difficult to 4-man slug.
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Just allow players to give up not waste their time with Killers who throw temper tantrums not getting a 4K or worse troll killers who want to waste everyones time.
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How are they throwing a temper tantrum? If the killer believes at that time that slugging is the best chance they have to win, that doesn't mean they're angry or anything. There's enough in the game currently to counter slugging, again assuming the survivors are similar in skill to the killer.
Slugging is risky because you can easily lose lots of pressure if survivors just recover, and you don't need any perks to pick other people up off the floor.
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3 Kills is a win by all terms most of the time the killer slug to prevent hatch not to prevent a draw or a loss.
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I mean how else can a killer play around hatch then slugging?
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By chasing the player left. killer still has a great advantage to find hatch over the survivor you just want a an easy 4k and its still by most terms set a Killer win.
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Yeah but there are archives and achievements that -require- a 4k, like all the killer adepts. Why would you leave it up to chance instead of slugging?
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And there is achievement for a lot of crap BHVR does NOT balance for that. All it cares about is balancing killer winning vs Killer losing.
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Killers should not be "playing around hatch". It is pathetic to slug to 4k. The killer already won the match with 3 kills. Just play out the match with a perfectly fair hatch race. Killer had a way better chance of finding it first anyway. So you are giving the last survivor maybe a 15% chance to live.
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The time you spend slugging survivor 3 to find survivor 4, you could have just played a whole new match.
Like, this is the equivalent of pulling an all nighter as double iri Myers just standing in front of a locker being upset at a survivor.
It sucks, but just move on, man.
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Bully SWFs make up less than 3% of the survivor base. So you think the game should be balanced around this tiny fraction of players so that killers can just BM the heck out of the other 97%. And I do not disagree with the people saying sometimes slugging it the correct play, etc. But 4-way slugging is NEVER the correct play and should not even be allowed in the game. One or 2 folks slugged to slow things down or prevent wiggle off with sabo's, OK. 3 people slugged, no hooks and looking for 4th for the bleed out is unacceptable.
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Why do you need the pity escape so badly? If the killer already won, then it shouldn't matter if you die by the killer playing around hatch.
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So the Blight never hooked anyone? Is this a common occurrence in your games?
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Where did you get that info about 3%? I get them in every other game whenever I play with anyone other than my main killer.
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That's blatently false. Slugging the 3rd survivor so you can secure a 4k doesn't take nearly as much time as leaving the game, queuing up again, getting put into a lobby, getting into the game, playing a whole new game out where you may not even get a 3k let alone a 4k.
Of course the killer is just going to slug to get the achievement/archive done, it's crazy not to.
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Why do you need the pity kill so bad? At 3 dead you already won. Making it fair for the last survivor is not out of line. You are under some delusion that the last survivors "owes" you a kill. This is a majority solo queue game. Why would that last survivor just give up to you because the 3 team mates died? I know you will be surprised to know but the survivors are gamers as well, human beings who came to play and have a good time, just like you. Killers seem to forget that survivors are not just NPC waiting for you to come along, regardless of how Bhvr treats them.
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From Bhvr , and you are deluding yourself if you think you are going against 4-man swf even 25% of the time.
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From Bhvr
Yup, a very reputable source indeed.
you are deluding yourself if you think you are going against 4-man swf even 25% of the time.
Sure, you know what my games look like better than me. I definitely get SWFs in more than half of my killer games. Even if that 100% accurate picture is true, my killers might just be near high MMR, where all SWFs are concentrated, while most of soloQ players are stuck in ELO hell. That could be one explanation.
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"The killer wins with a 3k"
What if someone only considers a 4k a win and strives for it every game?
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With the sabo changes get ready for a lot more slugging :)
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I personally don't mind slugging ive said plenty of times i think anything in game is fair play but I do find it funny seeing some people who complain all the time about very small things survivors do, right here defending slugging and just leaving bodies on the floor for 4+minutes while nothing is going on in the match, these are the same killers that when they lose they cry the survivors wont leave or they 99 the gates just to bully them....geee I wonder why people are treating you this way? It couldn't be that you tried to be toxic only to have it backfire in your face 10 times worse.…
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I learned to 99% the gate not to be toxic but if u notice a teammate is injured and is running towards me I rush to them take a hit so they open the gate and we get out it though it works 75% of the time usually I go down since two people trying to get through the small opening when the gate just starts to open. But I once that gates open and I know that teammate is secure I just leave or heal for extra BP if the killer leaves when we make it through then I leave because I'm not sticking around for 2 minutes I would rather just leave and get to my next match...most likely die in set match.
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Boohoo, another Survivor main complaining, the game is already easy enough for you, but go ahead. Keep crying about killers playing effectively.
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There are 3 tiers of MMR and most players who play more than casual (or aren't new) are in the highest tier because you can not backslide after reaching 1600+ high cap to avoid smurfing. So ok my guy I am sure you are such a DbD god that you are just getting a special dose of bully SWF above all the plebs.
Post edited by alaenyia on0 -
There isn't much incentive to hook when only one person is down and the other 3 are healthy and pushing objectives. Hooking when 2-3 Survivors are slugged makes more sense with a slug build since the slowdown comes from Survivors running across the map to pick other Survivors up.
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There can only be 1 extra health state for Survivors because of the (partially foolish) Deep Wound change. There should be unlimited stacking Endurance for anti-tunnel, but DH/Styptic stacking has long been dead. All of these 'god mode perks' are disabled by the Killer using their brain for more than 3 miliseconds by targeting the remaining 75% of the lobby. Heck, someone just unhooked that person, and the Killer can bypass these anti-tunnel protections by targeting a bare minimum of 50% of the people they know the location of instead. I don't understand how this is such a herculean task for so many people. Even if I turn off my brain, I can still win that worst-case coinflip the majority of the time without even trying.
As far as sabo, the maps are designed so that you need 3 sabos before the Killer is remotely threatened, and the Killer can still simply drop the Survivor safely. Even if we were to go to the extreme and pretend everyone is bringing Mettle of Man, that still means they gave the Killer 3 free hits, and 3 heals taking 16*3 or 48s total, not even to mention the travel time between the protections and heals. If I have someone giving me a free minute being useless instead of pumping gens, I praise them for being a goof. If I lose to that, I'm only potentially humiliated at being so bad that I lost an effective 3v1 from the start.
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There can only be 1 extra health state for Survivors because of the (partially foolish) Deep Wound change.
1 from endurance, 1 from a teammate bodyblocking with endurance, 1 with DS, 1 with styptic, 1 with FTP, 1 with endurance from FTP, 1 from a flashlight save, 1 from a Boil Over + Breakout combo, 1 from a sabo teammate, and I probably missed a few. So just earning a single hook might take you a dozen of hits in total if you play against SWF.
targeting the remaining 75% of the lobby
If you spread the hooks, you loose miserably with 8 hooks and 4 escapes (and a bunch of teabags at the gate, too).
As far as sabo, the maps are designed so that you need 3 sabos before the Killer is remotely threatened
Play a few games against a 4man and then you will have some idea how it actually works. Because reading
and the Killer can still simply drop the Survivor safely
makes it clear that you never actually played against those kind of players. Pro tip: if you drop a survivor you have been carrying for a while, instead of falling on the ground he instantly wiggles off. That's how it works.
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Neither side "owes" anything to the other as long as they're all following the rules. Slugging for the 4k is not against the rules. It's not fun, I get that but honestly, why wouldn't a killer simply slug and all but guarantee the 4k? The killer does not need to care about your fun, just as you don't need to care about their fun. Which means that both sides can play in whatever way they want. Securing a 4k means nothing more than eliminating an unnecessary risk for extra BP and better pips.
It's completely natural for players to aim for the best possible outcome. There is nothing petty about that. It's the equivalent of survivors not taking 3 escapes but trying to get the last survivor out. Why wouldn't they do that? They already won, so it's not absolutely necessary but 4 > 3. Or keeping the exit at 99%. It's not necessary but they do it to avoid Blood Warden, which is a potential risk. They could just open the gate and take a chance but there is no reason for it because it's easily avoided.
The killer is not obligated to sympathise with you. If they do, then that's great but really they have no reason to. At the end of the day, they play the game to have fun and for some people the 4k is an important part of that. Survivors don't stop to think about how the killer might feel either. Because it's not their priority.
Also, why does the killer have to give the survivor a free escape, if they just wait near an exit gate? Both sides find ways to optimise their gameplay and it's rarely fun to play against but as long as it is allowed there is no point in shaming them. They don't do anything wrong as far as the rules are concerned and the rules are the only metric that decides whether or not something in a game is "wrong".
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I can clearly see that you like to slug to 4k and feel attacked by the majority of the community thinking that is cheap and lazy. Just playing the game as intended and racing the last survivor to hatch (which is way skewed in the killer's favor) is not "giving them a free escape" it is just allowing them to play the game. And the killer has a WAY better chance to find hatch then the survivor. Slugs also get no points and have no way to exit the match without having to wait for bleed out. So you are just BMing and wasting that players time for no reason.
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Ahhh, so you're one of those fortune tellers, huh? I always find it funny when someone else tells me things about myself that even I didn't know yet.
Just playing the game as intended and racing the last survivor to hatch (which is way skewed in the killer's favor) is not "giving them a free escape" […]
I recommend reading the full sentence. It is a free escape on many maps when you close the hatch and that survivor waits at an exit gate, which has become increasingly common. How do I know that? It might have something to do with me not slugging for the 4k. Maybe I should though. After all, kills are all that matters. The game doesn't give a damn how I got those kills, so why should I?
This has nothing to do with bm. It's a way to play the game. I don't like when survivors use a map offering to send themselves to GoJ either. That doesn't make it bm. Because they don't do it to ruin my experience but because they want better results. Just as a killer that slugs for the 4k. It's in the game, it's not a punishable offense and there is nothing that stops a killer from doing it.
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List of 'extra health states': Endurance (we'll assume basekit BT): Actual extra health state, we are at 1. Teammate bodyblocking: not the Survivor's extra health state. If you view the entire team as having 8 health, the first bodyblock still reduces total health to 7. Not an extra health state. DS Avoided by targeting 75% of the lobby, or even if the Killer doesn't know where anyone is, they know there was a hook rescuer, so still minimum 50% of the lobby. Denying the perk provides more value when the Killer doesn't rely on tunneling. Not an extra health state unless I can count running into walls intentionally as 12 extra health states for Survivors (you can, but then I can see I am not talking to someone who uses their brain). Styptic already covered as not stacking with Endurance, since it doesn't stack, doesn't count. FTP: If they are close enough to FTP+BU, they were close enough to give the Killer a free hit. Only an extra health state against unaware/unskilled Killers, since I assume you are skilled, 0 extra health states. Flashlight/pallet save is countered by looking at a wall, taking the free hit from a hovering Surv, or just general brain usage. Again, only an extra health state against unaware/unskilled Killers, since I assume you are skilled, 0 extra health states. Boil Over+Breakout, if the Killer knows where a single hook is, this doesn't work. Yet again, only an extra health state against unaware/unskilled Killers, since I assume you are skilled, 0 extra health states. Sabos: Maps are currently designed such that I can sabo 3 hooks (in the Killers rough path) and they can still get the hook on the 4th. Not an issue unless the Killer killed someone on a corner hook already, or wasted unnecessary time spinning in a circle for 8 seconds before walking in any direction. To end with one final only an extra health state against unaware/unskilled Killers, since I assume you are skilled, 0 extra health states, for 1 total extra health state.
Spread hooks for 8 hooks before a kill = lose: False premise to begin with, but you don't even need to spread them that much. You can hook Surv A then B then A then B the A then B and get your 6 hook 2k. More importantly, I can regularly (more than half of matches) get my 6-8 hooks before I get my first kill, and that's as Ghostface. If you personally are having trouble, I suggest you record your matches and see what could have been done better in both macro and micro senses. Should you return to hook to punish a late rescue? Should you avoid kicking this pallet at this time? Should this gen be kicked at all? Should you have zigged when you zagged? I did that without recordings because I generally am critical enough of my failings to know when I made a mistake. Recording it forces you to confront the reality of the match and what you did wrong, because we are all human, we will be wrong at least once in a match.
Play against a few (sabo) 4 mans: Yeah they die easier than normal matches. I've played against them plenty of times. They end up with 2-3 slugged while I wait for the last Surv to pop up, or the 25s ago sabo'd hook to respawn (waiting in case they had the 45s total add-on). Generally not a problem. Most SWFs are goofing off with friends, and trolling each other more than you as Killer. Obviously you haven't dropped Survivors (properly) if you think they ALL get unshouldered, instead of it adding ~20% to the wiggle bar, which means the Killer knows anything shy of ~13s is a safe drop. They now have to remain slugged for ~30s before someone else can pick them up, and if a teammate tried to heal them, they had to run past you chasing the other saboteur likely giving up a free hit in the process. Plus a Surv sabo-ing is a Surv not working gens. The game taking longer is better for Killer since pallets are a limited resource. These matches are only harder for people without the ability to understand the macro effects of the Survivors giving the Killer a free slug for pressure, a free chase, and often a free injury. The best way to learn a counter, is to attempt it yourself, and see how your opponents beat it (if they can) when you use it. I did that (and keep trying to do that) with sabos, and find more and more and more and more counters. When I did that with old Blight, I found no such counters as I would win without even trying.
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Only kills via hook or mori count for MMR. EGC and bleed out only count for grade. So if kills are important to you slugging makes no sense as far as moving up the MMR system.
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Did @Xernoton ever mention MMR in this discussion?
I see nothing in these two posts?
But good job moving the goal post, probably because you don't want to/can't address halve of their points.
For example about the fact that survivor trying their hardest for a 4 people escape instead of taking the 3e "because they already won" is acceptable but when it's the killer wanting a complete victory (or complete archives or achievements) and doing everything to maximize their chance is an offense to people like you.
(And before you also come at me that I slug for the 4k, you are free to check my comment history where I made it clear that, for the last up to 2 years I played this game, I made it point of an experiment to not tunnel,camp or slug to see how appreciative survivor were in comparison to all the complaints on the forum.)
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The problem with the whole slug for 4k for me is that the killers ultimate victory aka a 4k is based on chance if he doesn't.
Yes the killer is faster and has a better chance of finding it first but it is an absolute possibility that the hatch just spawns in front of the survivor or the killer or on the other side of the map in a dark corner. See its a chance thing while the survivors ultimate victory aka a 4e is based on there skill to trump the killer
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That is false. Even when it comes to MMR, the game cares about kills only. A dead survivor is a survivor that hasn't escaped, which is all that matters. It doesn't matter how their death occured.
The best possible outcome for a killer is 4 kills and the game grants them a bunch of extra BP for every survivor they killed as well as a bonus for all 4 survivors killed. It also gives them more BP for each hook they got. So you have a bunch of reasons to slug for the 4k (MMR and a lot more BP, as well as it being the best possible outcome, which grants more pips) and the only thing that may or may not stop you from doing it is because it's boring for the survivors. There used to be this whole argument that survivors made, "Your fun is not my priority.", and it applies here as well. As long as you follow the rules, you can play in whichever way you want and don't need to consider your opponent's fun. It's the devs' responsibility to ensure the game is fun for everyone, not the players'.
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You are correct the Emblem/Pips are the system only counts hooks and mori's, I had it backwards. But the devs have skewed this game so hard toward killer that it is now up to the killer whether the survivors have fun or not. So it could be argued that the player in the killer role is responsible for the other player's fun.
Now I have always played killer like the host of a party and considered the gameplay for all players per match. I understand that not everyone is a decent human being. The same trolls railing in the tiktok comments sections, play video games. At the end of the day you are arguing with me that it is your right to be hard trash. And I guess I have to concede that it is. It is just massively disappointing and you can just enjoy those DCs I suppose.
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My point was that if you aren't going to get credit for the kill letting them bleed out that slug to 4k does not make sense when looking at MMR. It was not in any reference to experience or level, if that is your question.
Also survivors risking their lives to save a team mate is the polar opposite and a terrible comparison to "slug to 4k". 3 healthy people running out with a survivor on 1st hook is a closer match. If people stay and try to save a team member, they risk hooks and dying themselves and do it so another player might have an opportunity to continue to play. The people staying are risking losing. Slug to 4k is just a lazy way to almost guarantee 4k without having to actually play. And does not risk loss by the killer, he already won.
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Yeah no one likes their time wasted, I agree. I'd really like all the time I spent waiting for survivors to stop gloating at the gate and leave back.
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[…] it is now up to the killer whether the survivors have fun or not.
That is a pretty bad take. Either side is responsible in finding their own fun. Yes, killers do have some play styles that are usually not very fun to play against but claiming that it's completely on them whether or not survivors have fun is a stretch. For every unfun strategies that killers have, survivors have an equivalent and vice versa.
If we're talking about hardcore slugging, then I agree that it's an absolutely terrible play style that should not exist. Unfortunately it does and it is supported (otherwise how do you explain Knockout?). Slugging for the 4k is annoying, sure, but it definitely is not on the same level. You can play the entire match like normal, it's just that the match will take a bit longer than necessary. It's not great but nowhere near as bad.
Now I have always played killer like the host of a party and considered the gameplay for all players per match.
I used to have that same mind set but I gave it up a long time ago. If this community has taught me anything, then it's that no matter how you play, somebody will find a reason to complain. No matter what side you play or how nice you try to be. So there is really no point to it. It has nothing to do with "being a decent human being" either.
Now I just play however I want to play and I don't go out of my way to be a dick. That is a standard, that I apply to my opponents as well. As long as they're not actively trying to ruin the match for me and make me miserable, everything is fair game. That includes sabo plays, flashlight saves, bodyblocks, waiting in an open exit, slugging for the 4k, tunneling and camping as they are strategies to get the upper hand in a match or get better results.
Also, insulting someone because they said something you don't like is not very nice of you. I guess it's fine though to be rude as long as you're not committing such heinous crimes as trying to get the best results in a video game. This makes you look pretty bad, if I'm honest because you brought up the thing about being a decent human being. The irony is priceless.
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I have a problem with the way you decribed slugging in the title, it should be: slugging is boring * in my opinion.
I really enjoy to slug every survivor, so it should be boring for you, because for me it's an incredible game when I can just sit back, relax and let everyone bleed out without a care in the world1
