Take a break when sabotage speed changes arrive
Comments
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I'm asking killers to do what?
Let's read that again, shall we?
Toolboxes have finite charges and on top of that could be mitigated by perks (overwhelming presence, franklin - you CAN bring them, you don't have to).
What does "you CAN bring them, you don't have to" mean?
- That you CAN bring perks to help you
- That you MUST bring perks to have any chance to counter this?
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The entire argument I have hinges on the sentence 'just bring x build to counter it'
You jumped in to defend that argument, saying survivors shouldn't have to make builds to counter the killer, but the killer has to make builds to counter a sabo build once sabo becomes a thing you can't counter without the perks. We already know you can sabo in the killer's face after a hit with these buffs with no other perk assistance.
So yes, you are being a hypocrite for demanding the killers bring perks to counter a problem while survivors shouldn't have to.
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but the killer has to make
bestie, could you see the difference between "you can" and "you must"?
If I bring Sprint Burst it doesn't mean you have to bring something to inflict Exhaustion or else you lose the game.
Because Sprint Burst, same as toolbox, have usage restrictions and cannot be used 24/7.
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This isn't a can or can't issue though. When every toolbox is potent at hook breaks as the other, with commodius being VERY popular to do it reliably with no assistance, survivors can run any other build on top of it. You are forgetting survivors come in 4, with 4 possible different builds the killer needs to be able to counter.
And despite all that, this isn't the reason I'm so disappointed in this to begin with. The problem is when you start cutting down more and more of what the killer can or can't do, they'll resort to more slugging matches to compensate lost time. I'm not saying to not buff sabotage, but BHVR shouldn't just do it without tuning the toolboxes and general map design first so you can't just multi-purpose this stuff.
Heck, you see 4 toolboxes and next patch have to guess if they're a sabo squad, a gen optimization squad, or a mix of both and have to make a build to somehow counter both at the same time just to have enough time to do normal loops as an M1 killer.
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This isn't a can or can't issue though.
It is, only you pretend it isn't and exaggerate that nothing can be done.
- You can ditch the lobby entirely.
- You can play in normal way as toolboxes have finite usage.
- If you struggle then maybe you should equip more universal perks.
You are forgetting survivors come in 4, with 4 possible different builds the killer needs to be able to counter.
And now are you countering every single perk with just 4 perks? 🤨
they'll resort to more slugging matches
Now as survivor I have to bring Unbreakable to every match or is it "too bad so sad, ggs" situation and you don't care?
Heck, you see 4 toolboxes and next patch have to guess if they're a sabo squad, a gen optimization squad, or a mix of both and have to make a build to somehow counter both at the same time just to have enough time to do normal loops as an M1 killer.
And what about my healing build when I don't see if this is Plauge or not?
Should I be able to teleport from this match back to the lobby or devs have to remove broken from Plague because I have brought medkit to my match?0 -
You're ignoring so much of what I say, even with finite charges sabo plays save a TON of time. Gen speeds haven't changed, heck regression got another nerf, and you can use the same toolbox to do gens and sabo if it's a commodious and you know how to loop to save yourself if the killer goes after you.
I honestly don't know why I'm wasting time arguing this, I face these kinds of survivors in my games now. I've also experienced it as a survivor in the PTB, with killers having hooks denied in their face with no recourse because the hook can be broken and the survivor gone before the second hit. I know for a fact this is a bad idea regardless.
And bringing up medkits and plague is disingenuous, because unlike medkits, this change effects a variety of killers. And one line that does urk me is this:
And now are you countering every single perk with just 4 perks? 🤨
Perks??? We're not talking about perks, we're talking about toolboxes. An already strong survivor item. Why not buff keys or maps instead of this?
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And bringing up medkits and plague is disingenuous, because
ah, yes, "too bad so sad", if such situation is on surv side is not an issue at all, but if you see survivor with toolbox it's literally unplayable.
even with finite charges sabo plays save a TON of time
Bring some perks to next match if that is the issue then?
Should I have basekit counter to aura reading or should I just bring Distortion?
Why not buff keys or maps instead of this?
Killers would still complain because they complain about everything, for example sabotage buff in which you have to bring 4 perks + toolbox with addons on SWF.
Playstyle that could be countered / weakened by inflicting pressure on survivors or by bringing perks such as:
- Agitation
- Awakened Awareness
- Forced Penance
- Franklin's Demise - hard counter
- Iron Grasp
- Iron Maiden (if you assume Built to Last is brought)
- Mad Grit
- Overwhelming Presence
- Hangman's Trick
- Starstruck - hard counter
Boo-hoo, nothing can be done, literally games would be unplayable.
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I am trying to be as fair to both sides as possible while you're clearly on a survivor bias and ignoring half of what I say, so I see no point continuing this argument.
All I can say is this is a bad idea, you have no good argument for it, and I hope BHVR takes a good look at toolboxes and other avenues if they want sabotage buffed.
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THe Sabo buff plus nerfing gen perks means it's time to break out Ol slugging Bubba again. Or Nurse.
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I shoulda read this engagement before responding to them. It's just matters of strong opinions. Bhvr can do what they want. They'll have to see the backlash though and adjust it.
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Why do most killers not enjoy sabo plays?
When I see a sabo in action I know it's gonna get interesting.
Most surivors will end up making a single mistake that snowballs into a 4k.
Maybe I just like the attention idk
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Yeah this is usually how it goes down in my lobbies. Gotta love it..
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i don't doubt that people will overuse sabo in groups for a week or two, but I think that will be due to the fact that people were reminded of the fact that the play style exists. the sabo squads will be no more powerful than they used to be because the thing that makes them powerful (coordination) did not receive any buffs.
it may even be the case that sabotage was overbuffed and they'll ultimately need to tone the numbers down a bit. but the fact of the matter is that sabotage used to be near completely useless outside of sabo squads. whatever the final balance of sabotage is, I hope it is greater than what it used to be, to the point where it is no longer usually a dead perk slot
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what about the changes are going to allow "games to be… taken hostage"
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it’s supposed to mean taking more than you deserve, like cheating on a partner. In a literal sense it’s supposed to mean you can’t have a cake if you eat it, because the cake will be gone.
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just take iron grasp or agitation. It’s not gonna be that hard. I’m a killer main and I am not worried about it one bit
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PTB sabotages don’t need a coordinated group. I was easily doing them in the PTB as a solo survivor. Coordination isn’t needed when the sabotage speeds are so quick that survivors can sabotage directly in front of the killer, with no risk to themselves.
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Which killer you main?
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that is in fact exactly the point i was making. if a perk needs to be used in a coordinated group, it is a terrible perk (imo). the fact you are emphasizing that PTB sabotages don't need a coordinated group, that indicates to me that previously they did need a group, which would make it terrible per that earlier point.
if you say you were "easily" doing sabotages maybe the PTB version was slightly overtuned and sabo should be somewhere in between where it used to be and where it is in PTB, but the gameplay mechanic being viable in non-coordinated teams should be the Goal and not the metric for overpoweredness.
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fix those maps, ez
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your complaint has nothing to do with sabotage, then. it's entirely based on map balance.
i agree that map balance needs to be looked at. will you agree in turn that undertuned perks also ought to be looked at?
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"whataboutism" is not a fair accusation here, the things that I am bringing up directly relate to the thing we're discussing. It's not "what about map design" it's "your complaints would be alleviated if an entirely different aspect of balance (map design) were fixed, therefore your complaint is about that aspect (map design) and not the thing you are saying (sabotage)"
like, i agree that the core point of your complaint (map design) is broken, but i think you shouldn't redirect that onto something that is genuinely a positive change (a perk being made viable in pub games)
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all i can say in response to that is that it's extremely interesting that your 2-day-old account is consistently able to earn exactly 1 vote-up within minutes of posting.
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Sorry, that's me following along and agreeing with them. They make good points I didn't touch on, maps are notoriously bad about hooks. I also recall the current Eerie of Crows has a corner where, twice in a row for me, didn't spawn a hook at all. No Boil Over shenanigans either.
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Equip Knock Out
Perks and add-ons that causes blindness
Never hook
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I’ll be happy to turn into slug condemn onyro again if needed. lol
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Sabotaging should never be a low risk low effort thing for solo survivors.
It's background player that breaks everything. Killers need to check the area surrounding the slugged survivor…. AND the entire area background player can cover, in between the killer and the nearby hooks. It's lower risk than flashlights or flashbangs, because the survivor doesn't need to immediately get into position when the killer picks up the survivor. In fact, the survivor can wait for the killer to commit to a direction to a hook, and THEN background player past the killer after it's too late for the killer to pick a different hook.
Survivors don't even need to guess which hook a killer wants to use, because background player means it doesn't matter.
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I like how this thread is half about sabo and half about cake.
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