BHVR: Cant make a high tier killer that doesn't rely on fast movement speed or teleports.
Name one Killer that doesn't rely on fast map movement speed or teleports that can out preform a Killer whose power does not rely on this.
Trapper is bottom tier, Huntress is decent but still doesn't hold a candle towards a Blight, Hillbilly or Nurse. I rarely see people using Myers, or Ghostface. I see Mastermind after Mastermind after Mastermind.
This game is basically hook survivor then use slow down perk, and BBQ to find next survivor then teleport/move quickly to other side of the map for about 80% of Killers now, or they stay near hook survivor then quickly run over and tunnel.
There is no more fun to this game anymore if every new Killer will only rely on fast movement speed and teleports.
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Because if a killer doesnt have great map mobility, they are incapable of being top tier. Its just the way the gameplay is designed.
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In order to have a killer be that good without map mobility their anti loop or base kit slow down would have to be so over the top that no one would be okay with it. That's why. Too much time is wasted with holding w on non mobility killers that they would have to save a ridiculous amount of time in other ways to make up for it. Just walking around the map wastes crazy amounts of time, hence why people try and 3 gen.
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After a hooking, how much time does it take a killer to start a new chase? Blight Nurse Wesker is within 5sec. Other has to take 10sec. Which means 30sec of a hook, Blight Wesker is already 25sec in chase, while other has 20sec. Start chase early is an advantage.
115% may not catch a survior to another tile, but 230% does
Patrolling a wrong Gen? let 230% makes up your mistake.
A chased survivor is outskill you and you just can not catch them? It takes 5sec to start chase with another survivor. Before the chased one even know you left.
Speed is just everything.
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Problem is there is no balance to these Killers, nothing more fun than dodging 5 hillbilly revs to be downed with the 6th one. There needs to be a down time to these Killers, Mastermind needs a slower charge rate for missed attacks even by like 2 seconds. Hillbilly should be needing to re-gas his chainsaw after the 8th down. Teleporting Killers at least have that, no fast movement Killers its nearly impossible to escape these chases.
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this is most obvious to slow killers right? You think a hag that moves 4.4 m/s and pauses the game every 2-3 second to place traps is going to be moving around the map? It is like nope, all you're getting is 3 gens and hook camping.
Anti-loop exaggeration is like Nurse or Chucky, you just get hard-tunneling because the killer is so effective at downing the survivor that you might as just target same person over and over. it is not like the survivor is going to "loop" you.
In term of exaggerated game-delay, Forever freddy was exaggerated game-delay. Old 3 gen skull merchant with COB/Overcharge/Oppression/Eruption was exaggerated game-delay. Exaggerated game-delay don't really exist anymore. They got nerfed out of the game. Closest thing you get to game-delay in dbd is pig's reverse bear traps which temporally remove 1 survivor creating 3vs1 for about 3-4 minutes of the match. There is only 4 traps so yeah.
Too much time is wasted with holding w on non mobility killers that they would have to save a ridiculous amount of time in other ways to make up for it.
Pre-running is main reason why none non-mobility killer are successful. The answer is that coordinate SWF can just pre-run for like 20-30 second on before single chase and split up and do gens. Killer that don't have good catch-up also get abused by health-state system and med-kits so just free time to rush gens.
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Yeah basically lol.
Survivors hate the "anti loop" killers but that's what they get when they wanted all the heavy slow down nerfed. Personally as killer or survivor I prefer killers with high map mobility and built in slow down. It gives the survivors their fun chases they want while as killer is doesn't cost you the whole game. I think those are healthier designs than the heavy anti loop killers. Unfortunately as I said before, they keep killers with these designs in pretty weak states. See Pig, see Onryo or removed forever freddy and removed 3 gen kick meta.
For how much survivors hate slow down in DBD, it's probably the healthiest and most enjoyable of the alternatives that you get other wise.
We've currently been leaning heavily in the anti loop killer design for quite a while now and I hope we go back into some more macro or stealth killer directions.
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Plague, and Artist.
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i have different opinion in regards game-delay. game-delay perks are suppose to be used as ways to plaster fix poor map presence killers.
the unfortunate reality is that the perks are being used to win more consistency on killers with good map presence with a high-tier chase. I don't think macro or stealth killer direction has been effective. I would like to see more killer go the route of exposed/1 hit down. More about speeding-up killing, Punishing poor play.
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Isn't that obvious? All killer abilities can be divided into 4 categories. Mobility, slowdown, anti loop and information.
Every killer has some kind of chase power / anti loop. In order for a high tier killer to not rely on any of the other 3, they would need to be so incredibly busted in loops, that they'd become insufferable to play against. We're talking Nurse's level of anti loop here.
Information is also a bit tricky because it can quickly turn into a chasing tool as well. So they always try to give the killer only a little information in their kit. Doctor for example reveals the survivors' location but only if they are in his TR, he uses Static Blast (60 seconds cooldown) and they don't go into a locker or use Calm Spirit (not a good perk but a possible counter).
Slowdown is also quite tricky. Too much and it allows the killer to simply camp one survivor or tunnel someone out of the game with pretty much no risk and too little and the killer needs to rely on the other 3. Legion is a great example of a killer that is based on slowdown. But because of that, Legion is also not very good in the second half of a chase, which makes them vulnerable to strong loops.
Mobility is something that is pretty easy to balance. As long as it's not completely unrestricted and doesn't lead to free hits it's fine and it allows them to put less power into the chase mechanic while still maintaining a high strength level. High mobility killers are also generally more versatile in the things they can do in a match. They can switch targets, if necessary, defend a larger area and are usually a bit more forgiving because they don't lose as much time traversing the map.
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It feels like Killer difficulty level is telling the player what caliber of mmr Survivors you should expect to see.
It feels like all Killers exist to serve certain ranges of Survivor mmr brackets. Trapper the lowest Survivor mmr (maybe Freddy), and Nurse at the highest Survivor mmr along with Oni and the other “Very Hard” Killers. It makes sense since eventually Trapper players probably hit a hard wall of difficulty from the Survivors.
I honestly wouldn’t even doubt if Survivors have an individual mmr for each Killer.
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is mobility really that easy to balance? Billy has almost near uncontested mobility. He makes for great proxy camper… that is near global. His overdrive is so fast that he can sometimes charge at gen, miss right next to you and m1 you. break a pallet or do a curve and if he fails, patrol with his chainsaw until he gets overdrive and repeat this process over and over until he eventually finds someone out of position.
Mobility can also double as chase tool. Before blight got nerfed, his hug tech was literally using mobility as a chase loop tool. Made for great tunneler as shown by momo who got 2000 win-streak on blight by just tunneling and the one he doesn't. he gets burned by SWF.
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Depends. There are a few killers, that have noo map moobility but their strenghts in other categories make them still end up in A tier.
Examples are Pyramid Head and Plague.
Pyramid Head has incredibly strong tunneling pootential, good anti looop and safes a lot of time using the cages. Plague on the other hand can keep survivors injured the entire match and has one of the best chasing poowers when active. Unhooking in her face is also nearly impossible if she roams the area around the hook.
Mobility is makes a huge difference but isnt everything. Being extremely oppressive in other areas can also make a killer very strong.
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No, you're wrong. If these killers weren't balanced, they'd all be in S tier, which they are not. The point of survivors looping killers is not to trump the killer's chase and run them for 5 gens. You're supposed to go down, but you need to waste as much of the killer's time as possible, to buy more time for your team, so that y'all can escape. The killer nerfs you're suggesting would make it to where they'd never beat a decent survivor team again. They already struggle, which is probably hard for you to believe, but the grass is always greener on the other side.
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Because the game is movement speed based? You can have one of the best hinders in the game (clown) but still fall short in many matches because it's clown. No map pressure = lose against competent survivors.
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Deathslingers pretty strong 🥺, he was mid A tier before his quick scope and terror radius nerf imo. But yeah all I play is freakin frakin masterminds
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Well, Myers and Ghostface are really weak, but they're still top 10 in pick rate according to BHVR's recent stats, even if you don't personally don't play against them.
And besides Huntress Plague, Artist and Pyramid Head are also usually considered A tier killers even tho they have no mobility/teleport based power.
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Not necessarily. Spirit's map mobility is terrible because you generally don't want to use your phase for mobility because of the inability to see survivors in the distance as well as the fact that the increased speed compared to walking is only marginal, especially when you factor in the cooldown. Map mobility is definitely a factor in a killers strength, but there are other ways for killers to be good even if they do not have map mobility. Slinger, Spirit, Artist, and Plague all are very strong.
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And they tried making it to where she went from 77% when holding a hatchet to 88% while still being a 110% killer. People were sobbing and puking because it was such a Giga buff (it wasn’t)
I can’t wait to see the kill rates and still see her at the bottom. Oh well, it is what it is.
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Its not even quite that.
The games is balanced around a chase lasting 45 seconds for both hits. That seems somewhat reasonable level for both sides to have some interaction. But taking 45 seconds per chase, not tunneling and not camping means that
0 hooks: 45 x 3 = 135 seconds
each other hook is 45 seconds of time (1 survivor on gen, 1 survivor in chase, 1 survivor on hook, 1 survivor saving)
so 7 more hooks is 7 x 45 = 315 + 45 = 4 generators.
This seems reasonable, if every chase lasted 45 seconds exactly and survivors were always doing something useful, but there is a lot of dead air there for both killers (and survivors, in finding generators and dealing with killer mechanics like pinhead box etc.) but the killer dead air is FAR LONGER than people realize.
One of the things i like to point out, is that people don't realize actually HOW long it takes a killer to hook a survivor. This isn't just a survivor who you have to find, chase, then down and then hook. I'm talking, you just downed the survivor, they are laying on the ground at your feet, how long does it actually take you to physically pick them up and take them to a hook?
Well, there's usually around 9 hooks on average spawned in a map (+ the 4 in basement). A map is usually around 100 x 100 square meters on average. So if you placed all of these hooks relatively equidistant to each other, you are seeing hooks spread out around in 3rds in that square. So basically, you have hooks around 33 meters apart from each other on average. So, from any point on the map, you are at minimum right next to a hook, and at maximum 33 meters away from a hook. So on average you are 17 meters from a hook. Killers move 3.68 m/s while carrying a survivor. So now we can do some math.
- 2.7 attack animation cooldown
- probably a 1 second (fiddle) to pick the survivor up due to them "teleporting around a bit" usually in my experience
- 3 second pick up animation
- 2 seconds to look around and find the nearest hook
- 17/3.68 m/s = ~5 seconds to walk to said hook
- 1.5 second hooking animation.
That means you spend a total of:
2.7 + 1 + 3 + 2 +5 + 1.5 = 15.2 seconds to just hook the survivor.
That's if the survivor doesn't do the obvious better play and run to what we call "comp corner" where when they know they are gonna get downed, they just run straight to the corner of the map, which is as far from a hook as you can possibly get. Doing that, now adds 5 more seconds to that time.
So if a chase is balanced around lasting 45 seconds on average, hooking a survivor costs a 3rd of a chase. Which is where so much of the dead air occurs. People underestimate just HOW MUCH time killers spend trying to hook a survivor. This doesn't even factor in things like:
- The survivor got downed under a pallet, so now you need to do a quick look around to make sure nobody is going for a save
- Other survivors coming to body block.
- Survivors coming to flashlight save
- Survivors sabotaging the hook you are walking to.
Once you factor all of these things in, then the fact that you have to FIND the survivors to chase, you realize why killers usually lose 2-3 gens in the first chase, and why tunneling and camping is so prevalent. Because as a killer you simply do not have TIME to play nicely if the survivors are "just doing gens".
The game is balanced around survivors roleplaying the role of a survivor. As in, they are scared of the killer, scared to do gens because gens are noisy, when they hear a terror radius they immediately go hide somewhere because the big scaring killer is coming.
The reality is, once you throw out that roleplay element, and survivors realize they can just do gens in killer's faces while they are picking up a survivor or other things, and they stop roleplaying the horror game? The game balance falls apart.
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Na, kill rates will still be super high because devs allow people to kill themselves on hook and nope out, which heavily inflates the kill rates so everything "looks fine here" because they hit their magical "60% kill rate number" despite the fact that the kill rate is only there because in probably 25% of your matches (if not more when you play the killers that are perceived as more "annoying") someone just DCs, or gives up immediately because something doesn't go slightly their way.
Its only gonna get worse too now that there is no depipping. So there is literally no penalty for doing so. You'll see kill rates start to spike up near the 70% (like skull merchant is) for most of these killers. I suspect this is WHY you are seeing nerfs for all these gen defense perks. Because they see those games tend to result in higher kill rates. But are ignoring that survivors get a gen pain resed and then just give up half the time.
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Spirit used to have very good map mobility before they nerfed her green and above add-ons.
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I very distinctly remember people crying for months about how completely broken and game shattering permanent move speed increases are for the game.
An 11% move speed bonus, permanently, is quite a bit bigger than 3%, last I checked.
That entire buff for huntress was 100% intended to combat MfT, and they deleted MfT. The move speed buff was completely unnecessary, so they removed it. And rightfully so.
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The speed buff was completely unrelated to MFT lol, they tried boosting her speed 2 months ago and MFT was gutted over 8 months ago so they are completely unrelated.
Also the 11% is still 12% slower than survivors, so it isnt really comparable to made for this.
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Its because
Most killers without mobility have to spend absurd amounts of time patrolling the map and getting close enough to start chases (stealth or not) communication of any sort while they are trying to do this can make it easily take 2x as long to get close to start a chase, and at the very minimum compared to these other killers mobility killers can usually get right next to the survivor and start a chase as an m1 killer 2-3x as fast, then after a hook / down use perks that reward them for doing so faster than killers without mobility.
In the long term effects over a game mobility killers just have more time because they waste less time
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