'DBD isn't a horror game'

What is important is not where character came from, but what character represents and how it fits.

Lich fits horror game even if came from DND.

Murderous mastermind fits horror theme even if came from teenage mutant ninja comic (shredder), turtles would not fit survivors tho.

DbD is a game made to play with horror themes, and the horror theme should be respected. I don't mind an evil undead wizard torturing people with black magic, because magic and fantasy can be very horrifying. "Curse of Strahd" is basically Dracula in DnD and it's one of the most well-known and popular DnD modules for a reason. It can work, and a dark and dingy dungeon filled with arcane secrets and bloody torture rooms is a fine fit for DbD.

However, I will agree that Vecna looks really lame. I was expecting a skeleton or a gnarled corpse or something that actually evoked the menace of an unnatural undying evil that bends life and reality to its cruel whims. Instead he looks like a cartoon character. He looks like a villain from a low-level World of Warcraft sidequest. Doesn't help that of all the spells they could give him, none actually feel like necromancy, and they're all really underwhelming in their implementation.

horror doesn't mean scary after all

Imo, DBD is a horror game. Just not scary (at least not anymore, exception mirror myers)

Gore stuff for exemple

It can be scary for some people, not scary for other people

Either way, scary or not it's still horror

While I disagree with you that Vecna isn’t horror (I personally find him terrifying), I have seen discussions talk about the horror aspect of the game getting in the way of Survivor fun. I couldn’t disagree more with that idea.

This thread lmao

Just because something is intended to be x does not mean it is x... I don't suddenly become Dirk Nowitzki just because I intend to be good at basketball. The outcome is what matters.

Thats not it at all my man... I can write the worst book ever intending it to be a love story, but my intention does not turn it in one but its content does... Books get categorized by their content not the intention the author had when writing them.

The intent is completely meaningless if it does not show in the results...

That just sounds like a word that is so wide that it has lost its meaning and everything falls under its definition.

I said, AFAIK, that it isn't scary after x time and not therefore it's not horror anymore, but I don't see the horror elements besides the characters and themes...

Perhaps, but usually you don't have the creators intention openly aside from the plot, similar to when you do literature analysis, you can guess what he meant but you cannot know for sure if there is no indication in the text. People consume the medium and based on that have an opinion what the genre is, if the creator did a good job you will see his intention in the finished film/book, if not you won't and therefore it cannot be taken into account in my opinion.

Thats kind of ironic now, because if I tell you you're wrong that would kind of cement your verdict of me being always right and if I don't then I agree with it being true as well ^^ Puts me in the same spot regardless of what I do. Well I don't mind being wrong about stuff especially if it is for the benefit of the game. But oftentimes it seems like people don't argue along the points. When I start of by asking what is horror about the game except for character and moris I'm asking about specific elements and then I kind of expect that a counter argument leads by naming elements... For example the killer chasing his victim would be thematic to some degree... That's one point nobody mentioned and I would have to say yeah, sure that might fit. But usually what makes it horror is not that the play tag for 10 min without ever getting close, but the killer being relentless and always right behind and nothing seems to stop them, and that theme is just completely gone when the survivor knows how to play... The killer is still close by but the threat of getting caught is kind of gone, which reduces the theme as well.

You could say as well that horror is the fear of the unknown, which could carry the argument that when you have a few hundred hours in the game there is nothing unknown anymore and therefore this part also disappears.

What stays is the visual, audio design and perhaps the characters and themes. I just feel like that's not enough to make it a horror game... Because the gameplay does not really carry that whole concept. Similar to how modern shooters tend to have skill trees aka rpg elements you could say dbd is a game with horror elements but not necessarily a horror game.

If you read my last post I mentioned the visuals... Yeah sure some maps, for example have dead bodies in the stacks of pressed automobiles... Does that make it horror? Or do you mean the maps that are from horror franchises like rpd and such?

If I have a racing game for example Mario Cart and the race is along RPD as a map with all the asthetics, does it become a horror game because of that or does it stay a racing game? My point is that the gameplay does not necessarily reflect that it is supposed to be a horror game. And that what can be argued to be horror is, as I said in the previous post:

"What stays is the visual, audio design and perhaps the characters and themes. I just feel like that's not enough to make it a horror game... Because the gameplay does not really carry that whole concept. Similar to how modern shooters tend to have skill trees aka rpg elements you could say dbd is a game with horror elements but not necessarily a horror game."

I like nic cages movies but i have never seen anything remotely horror from his career.

He's done some horror and horror comedies. Vampire's Kiss is one, Willy's Wonderland is another and I recommend that one. He was also in the ridiculous and hammy remake of The Wicker Man, as well as the recent modern adaptation of Lovecraft's "Color Out of Space." He's been in a few other horror films I haven't seen, Nic Cage does a lot of obscure movies. He's not super-strongly tied to the horror genre but he's definitely not a stranger to it either. He's a very unique kind of person and he is the ONLY real-life person I don't mind being included in DbD, but I hope they never do it again.

Renfield, with Nic Cage as Dracula? Definitely another horror comedy.

I said, AFAIK, that it isn't scary after x time and not therefore it's not horror anymore, but I don't see the horror elements besides the characters and themes...

Even if you don't see the horror elements, those characters and themes are still a reflection of things found in the horror genre, along with all the other elements in the game.

Perhaps, but usually you don't have the creators intention openly aside from the plot, similar to when you do literature analysis, you can guess what he meant but you cannot know for sure if there is no indication in the text. People consume the medium and based on that have an opinion what the genre is, if the creator did a good job you will see his intention in the finished film/book, if not you won't and therefore it cannot be taken into account in my opinion.

I will meet you halfway on this, you're right that the content is in most cases are required to be consumed first in order to see the intention of the creator, unless it is specifically stated by the creator themselves beforehand on things like the first page of a book or on said book's cover.

However, it is not something that can be applied as easily to something like horror, because in order for something to be horror, someone needs to find it scary and because of that, horror as a whole is both determined by what people personally find scary/fear while also not being determined by what people don't find scary since someone else will find it scary/fear it instead. After all, horror is not just a genre only, it is a primal concept in of itself that have existed since humans have walked the earth, which also extends to certain animals too since they too can also feel fear.

Also because so many different types of horror subgenres exist, if means that even if you read some book or watch some movie that falls within one of those many subgenres and you don't find the theme of said subgenre scary, it is still considered horror as the subgenre exist in the first place because other people find it scary/feel fear from it.

Thats kind of ironic now, because if I tell you you're wrong that would kind of cement your verdict of me being always right and if I don't then I agree with it being true as well ^^ Puts me in the same spot regardless of what I do. Well I don't mind being wrong about stuff especially if it is for the benefit of the game. But oftentimes it seems like people don't argue along the points. When I start of by asking what is horror about the game except for character and moris I'm asking about specific elements and then I kind of expect that a counter argument leads by naming elements... For example the killer chasing his victim would be thematic to some degree... That's one point nobody mentioned and I would have to say yeah, sure that might fit. But usually what makes it horror is not that the play tag for 10 min without ever getting close, but the killer being relentless and always right behind and nothing seems to stop them, and that theme is just completely gone when the survivor knows how to play... The killer is still close by but the threat of getting caught is kind of gone, which reduces the theme as well.

The thing is, DBD is a pvp multiplayer game, which in of itself automatically means that it is bound to lose any semblance of fear much quicker compared to single player games, goes as well for other pvp horror game out there.

When you play a multiplayer game, people will try to master it and maximize how efficient they can play in order to increase their chances of winning. Had DBD been a PVE game instead where people play only as Survivors like in Outlast: Trials or Lethal Company, the feeling of fear from the game's horror would have persisted for longer as the competitive nature people get from a pvp game isn't there.

I don't think there are any examples that i could give you about the game that would satisfy you, however while you can say that the feeling of fear is gone for you, you can't really say that the theme itself is gone since it is objectively still there as part of the gameplay that reflects elements from the horror genre that it's imitating. That and because while you may not get the sense of it being scary or feeling like horror to you anymore, other people (again) will still feel said fear and their experience with it is just as valid as anyone else's and doesn't make what they think and experience any less horror.

You could say as well that horror is the fear of the unknown, which could carry the argument that when you have a few hundred hours in the game there is nothing unknown anymore and therefore this part also disappears.

Which returns us to the previous point that all things horror related stops being scary when any horror's unknown factor becomes known and have been re-experienced enough times that it just becomes trivialized and loses it's effect, it's something that applies to horror in all forms of any kinds of medias no matter what.

What stays is the visual, audio design and perhaps the characters and themes. I just feel like that's not enough to make it a horror game... Because the gameplay does not really carry that whole concept. Similar to how modern shooters tend to have skill trees aka rpg elements you could say dbd is a game with horror elements but not necessarily a horror game.

When you say ''not necessarily horror' and ''I just feel like that's not enough to make it a horror game...'', we're moving back to the previous point of horror and it's relation to what's scary, which i will repeat my previous point. Because scary is subjective, it doesn't make DBD not a horror game since there are people out there who would find the game scary instead and their fears and thoughts on horror is again, just as valid as anyone else's.

Also it kinda contradicts your previous argument "Books get categorized by their content not the intention the author had when writing them." (I know you wrote books, but other medias like video games and movies can be applied here too). DBD's content in all those areas you just mentioned from visuals, audio, characters and themes are all things found in the horror genre itself such as in elements from slasher movies like Friday the 13th, Texas Chainsaw Masacre, Halloween, etc. As well as other things like the game's lovecraftian themes inspired by the Lovecraft mytho or DBD's gameplay having clear influence from horror games like Alan Wake & Naughty Bear, therefore because the game's content and it's themes is both based on and reflects so much from the horror genre itself, the game by default would also fall within the horror genre regardless if you personally feel any fear from the game or not.

There are some religions that have constant reincarnation and suffering during life as it is, is that horror then as well? Just because the lore around it might seem like horror, does not mean the game is, otherwise probably every piece of literature with demons and such would automatically be horror and I think that would draw the frame way too far, at some point everything would be horror just because of some implications of pain and suffering…

Besides that infernal punishment because of the trial itself? Or is there some sort of higher hell they end up in when they get sacrificed? Because otherwise unless you go rather deep into the lore and listen to the audio files and read all that stuff it never really gets through in the gameplay does it? You could argue that those things are horror elements, just like a skill tree is a rpg element, does not necessarily mean the game is a horror game…

On a side note if you think about single player games that can end by you dying and needing to restart… Do you always question what the possible afterlife what look like and then decide on that whether or not it is horror because there is or might be some otherwordly deity mentioned in the world that might claim your soul?

I'm not disagreeing on the lore certainly being horror, but the lore is not the game… The gameplay is mostly what matters and when we look at the gameplay we have a goofy game of catch, just like I said above. Because otherwise snake is also a horror game… As this poor snake is forced to endlessly eat stuff and do it over and over when it bites its own tail, seems quite like torment as well does it not? That's basically just what the gameplay loop is… Think about it from that point, is not every RPG game truly horror because you get thrown into this world where possibly around every corner there might be monstrous enemy that will crush you and there would be nothing you could do about it? With monster roaming the world and nobody being able to feel safe because not even the mighty walls of fortified cities may prevent the monsters from getting through? But does it get reflected in the gameplay? Nah not really…

There are phobias for basically everything, if the only requirement for it being horror is that some people are afraid of it then cooking simulator is also a horror game because some of the ingredients might scare certain people that suffer from such a condition… That just makes this way too wide of a defnition.

People also feel competetive about single player games, just think about the dark souls no hit runs… I don't think it would last longer in total, but just in comparison to its runtime… When you play it again it will lose that aspect similarly fast, and I don't think it is different with any other game where you can become better and learn the stuff that otherwise might frighten you because they are unknown.

My point was that I don't think lore or themes are enough to make a game a horror game, and I don't think the aspects are visible enough in the gameplay for it to be considered a horror game, I don't think the lore, the themes and the characters matter too much when it comes to what a game truly is… I guess that just means that I don't think it is a horror game, others think it is and there is no correct opinion about whether it is or not.

A book does not have gameplay and lore divided, lets call it world building and plot for that aspect… plot is what the characters do and world building is the world around it… You could write a book, that plays in hungary, at the time of Dracula, and in this world Dracula truly exists but the plot does not care about that and it would not be a horror book for that reason, as it literally plays no other role than being there. When we look at that for dbd now then we have gameplay (the plot) that does not really have much of this horror aspect, as it is basically just a goofy game of catch, whereas the world around it might be a horror setting, but it does not really matter that much. And characters present does mean much either… I could write a comedy book about Dracula cooking dishes with garlic, would it be horror just because Dracula plays a role in it? Rather not…

I just don't feel the gameplay reflects its horror theme enough to call it a horror game, which is why I will say it has horror aspects, but it is not a horror game.

What games do you consider horror? Why is Amnesia horror to you?

How would you change DBD to make it worthy of the horror genre title in your eyes?

And yes, in many ways regular existence is horrific. In many ways it is also beautiful. I would also classify Sisyphean situations as horrific yes.

And your fitness determing your fear in a trial is very brave. I would still be terrified regardless of how fit I am.

Because the theme also carries through onto the gameplay…

I don't really have the intention of making DBD into a horror title, but as I already explained you would need to find a way to have the theme carry over towards the gameplay, which makes it kind of hard in a multiplayer game… As with experience the game loses its horrors…

I would say they are frustrating, but not necessarily horrific.

Fully depends on who you face, if you face demogorgon, Unknown or some other you probably would, but then again Legion for example is probably the least of a threat, all he is is a person with a knife… Survival rates in knife fights are not good by any means, but it is not like you won't find stuff that could be used against it.

Ofc you can, but not when you use normal cooking stuff… When you make some weird cannibal cooking thing it can be. But not when you take some ordinary ingredients, despite some people having a phobia for ordinary cooking ingredients…

The issue is that in both cases the word is meaningless… Because if basically everything is or can be horror then it is not descriptive anymore, the same goes for when you base it only on subjective thoughts about the topic the words loses its meaning.

Thematically it is horrifying, but it does not get projected onto the gameplay, which is what I was saying the entire time, the gameplay does not provide the theme that the lore and the visuals have … It does not feel like doom closing in on you because of the restrictions the gameplay provides. You're not running for your life, because A. thematically you will just get into the next trial even if you do in fact die or get sacrificed to the entity, so you're not running for your life in that sense. You could argue you run to avoid pain I guess.. B. The game just is not able to give that feeling during the chase, while all this might be thematically true it is not really conveyed through the gameplay… Because the chase just does not feel like I am getting hunted down by a powerfull monster, because most of the killers are severely restricted by the map which is why it feels like a goofy match of catch… The theme does not get translated in the gameplay.

I don't really think it would, but whatever ^^

The themes alone don't make the game a horror game, as stated before, its gameplay is what defines it.

You're welcome I guess ^^

dbd is not horror it's just scooby doo running around like a headless chicken and when a wood pallet get drop on the killer big toe he moans that's not really horror never was tbh just ppl trying to immerse themself into a "horror" mood that's about it horror seting have ways to fight back to some extent it's none existent in dbd and in most horror setting the big evil gets defeated to some extent dbd aint it

I agree, devs should bring back the flashlight scroll tech so we can go back to the good old moody atmosphere dbd era.