DS buff should be reverted
Why? Because survivors are abusing it to grief Killers. Case in point: I had a match where a bully SWF duo were using DS to stun me, dive into a locker and then head on stun me since the stun animation lasted long enough for them to charge Head On.
All it takes is one bad apple to spoil the bunch.
Either that or give Killers stun immunity for like 30 seconds after getting stunned once.
Comments
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I disagree, DS is a current necessary evil in this game because of how strong tunneling is.
Also, sounds like you went for the unhooked survivor after they got unhooked, DS is supposed to help with exactly that.
Sadly, DS is already getting nerfed to 4 seconds in the next update.
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If you don't tunnel they cannot bully you.
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Honestly the tools to prevent Tunneling should be in the Survivors not unhooking next to the Killer, or trying to take a hit after being unhooked. or waiting until the Killer is chasing someone else. Rather than punishing the Killer for playing the game.
Luckily the perk is nerfed next patch, cause bHVR could see it was too much.
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If you don't bodyblock after getting unhooked you won't get tunneled.
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To be fair, at no point do you have to get stunned by DS. You're always making the active choice to pick up someone you know was unhooked recently in those scenarios, and you could actively choose to ignore them instead.
You're always opting in to letting survivors bully you with DS. Just don't do that, lol.
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Its true that 3 seconds DS was not doing much most of the time honestly. The problem with DS is that is still another "band-aid solution perk" to a much deeper problem.
Tunneling seems to be the best strat a lot of times, because getting someone out fast is better than trying to spread hooks and shooting yourself in the leg as the killer. Maybe its about time to try and reward the killers for spreading hooks instead of punishing them for tunneling. Because there are times where they shouldnt actually be punished for tunneling:
- Times where tunneling is just an absolute need, like gens start getting done fast and no one is dead. Not getting someone out of the game fast on this moment is like putting a "Mr Nice hat" on you and giving survivors an advantage on purpose.
- Times where the game sees that you are tunneling where you actually were not. Like, someone gets unhooked, you are in a chase with another survivor. You down him and hook him. You leave the place and find the one that got unhooked and down him. You pick him and you get DS'd. Like, you were absolutely not tunneling, why you should eat a DS?
Stop punishing killers for tunneling/camping and just reward them for not doing so. Make them want to go fast af into chase another survivor instead of trying to get someone out fast as hell.
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True, my bad. I should have let the bodyblocker tank 2 hits, ruin my pressure on his teammate, then let him stay on the ground so that his teammates can come pick him up later.
Why don't I just give you guys a free gen?
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Yep.
Ignore the bodyblocker until you absolutely have to hit them, then continue ignoring them while chasing the unhooker. The unhooker gets a little bit of distance, but you get to chase two survivors at once. That's a win/win overall.
Also, if you slug that survivor and someone else comes to pick them up, that's THREE survivors being occupied. That's even more of a win.
Finally, "you guys"? I'm a killer player primarily.
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Then you're either playing Nurse, or are not getting survivors that know what they're doing.
I'm talking about scenarios where you DO need to hit them. Any survivor with enough brains will absolutely manage to bodyblock you. Either on the corner of a loop, between 2 rocks or a doorway. You're going to have to hit. Then, the same situation will repeat. Two hit cooldowns against the unhooker will lose you too much distance for that chase to be worth anything, and you won't be able to pick up the one guy you did down.
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Nope, I play weaker killers for the most part. Strongest I play on a regular basis is Nemesis. Or maybe Skull Merchant? Whichever of those two you think is stronger.
Yes, I'm talking about those scenarios as well. You ignore them until they force it with that scenario, you hit them to remove their collision, and then you CONTINUE ignoring them. They will need time and distance to get into position for another bodyblock again, time and distance during which you're gaining on your actual target and during which they're not progressing generators or resetting or contributing anything at all to the match.
In that scenario, the scenario you're describing, you are just chasing two survivors at once. That's a win.
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You can tell if DS is still active by when you did the unhook but also generally if the survivor is teabagging you it’s because they want to activate their decisive strike.
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There's still two dudes on generators while you're fruitlessly chasing two survivors who are the next best thing to invincible. Progress is being made for the survivor team while you're faffing around being bodyblocked or slugging the survivor who almost certainly has unbreakable.
It's undeniably strong, which is why good survivors do it.
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The alternative is to have three dudes on generators while you're chasing the one survivor for a slightly shorter amount of time, so that's a good thing, not a bad thing.
It's undeniably more fun than resetting or playing it safe, especially if the killer takes the bait, which a lot of killers do. That's why survivors in general do it.
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Simply rewarding killers for not tunneling isn't enough. Killers will still tunnel because it's the easy way out. Tunneling and camping also need to be nerfed to not be such effective strategies anymore, there is no other way around it.
Even during the Eruption meta, where killers definitely didn't need to tunnel, there were still enough tunneling and camping killers.
And to be honest, I still believe, even as a killer main myself, that at the moment you really don't need to tunnel and camp, even against really good survivors.
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its hilarious how people defend DS. its a bad game design. no it doesnt punish tunnelers it just gives survivor a ######### you button which killer either loses pressure and take the stun, or slug and find another chase only to slugged survivor get back up with UB anyway.
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They were deliberately engineering the setup. It was a bully duo.
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They were a bully duo working together to engineer the plays.
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They can't engineer you into picking up the survivor with DS, you have to make the decision to take the bait they're putting in front of you.
If there's two people buzzing around you, and one just got unhooked, that's the one you need to ignore.
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Eruption had not much to do with tunneling tho? You kicked the gens and down anyone, the gens explode. Tunneling just made that even easier. Thats why i think there is a need to reward killers for going against multiple people. Doesnt matter if there are times where some killer perks are strong and favour them a lot, tunneling will make those times even easier for them.
But what on those two situation i did describe on my last comment tho?
If no one is killed and there is only one gen left, for sure you can maybe still win without tunneling someone out, but you are giving survivors an advantage on purpose on that situation, as in the best case scenario one will be hooked, other unhooking, other being chased and the last one will be on the last gen, making it almost impossible to defend it.
And what on the other situation, if you just go into a chase with someone and other survivor gets unhooked, you hook the survivor you are chasing, go patrol gens, find the one who got unhooked, down him and get DS if you pick him? You were fore sure not tunneling at all.
I mean yes you can just slug the survivor just in case, but the question is, why you should do it? Why you have to respect an "anti tunnel" perk when you are not tunneling at all?
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I just slug em and move on, honestly.
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No. If anything, DS should be buffed even more and get a few extra restrictions. As an anti tunnel perk DS is not strong enough in my opinion. You give up one of your 4 perk slots in order to prevent the killer from tunneling or at least make it risky. 5 seconds was barely enough for the average survivor, much less 4 seconds.
However, I fully agree, that the aggressive use of DS should not be supported. Reading over past patch notes, it is pretty clear that DS is supposed to be an anti tunnel perk and nothing else. But running up to the killer and making yourself a meat shield for your team mate isn't actually the killer tunneling you.
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Just ignore them. They get bored fast. They are also not doing gens, so what's the problem? Or eat the DS and be fine for the rest of the match. They can only use it once.
Not a big deal.
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This is why i propose a mechanic where a survivor does not loose a hook state if they are hooked multiple times in a row. They still need to get rescued within 60s or they will go to 2nd stage/die like normal though. So the killer basically cannot tunnel anymore but time-out a survivor if they get hooked 2x in a row. This mechanic should deactivate ones 2 Survivors are dead as well as during the EGC. Maybe it should also deactivate when you do a conspicuous action, so it can't be abused.
Then DS would not be needed.
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Sometimes you can't help it because the (injured) unhooker moves so you tank a hit for them (such animates). I also don't like bodyblocking if you were just unhooked, but if they swarm you anyway and don't have OTR (which you can hear) they have DS. So you just slug them. Either they use UB and are up again (so stay close) after 20s or wait until 60s are done and hook them. I have done that for ages when DS hat a 60s invincibility counter and it worked just fine.
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I spoke about this in an ancient post. I was having a similar issue with bully squads and head on. However, 30 seconds of immunity may be too much and could easily be too much of a game changer. Instead, I proposed having a 3-4 second timelapse in which you are immune to stuns, detering bully squads from bullying you, as in that time you are able to move and avoid the second immediate stun or simply punish them for their toxicity.
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count to 60…
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The problem there lies in that the Survivors can't control the Killer's movement. I was running in the open, no pallet no windows, near a progressed gen, and the Killer still dropped chase to tunnel after unhook crossmap. The Killer always has a choice to chase the remaining 75% of the lobby, so punishing them for targeting 25% of the lobby is nowhere near punishing them for playing the game.
DS should be a 30s stun for Killer and Survivor at this point, and the Killer can always hit the tunneled Survivor after the stun. It would be more of a deterrent to needless tunneling than a 3/4/5s stun where the Survivor gets no meaningful distance. Alternatively if we are going to have a 3/4s DS, it should work after every hook stage.
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The problem there lies in that the Survivors can't control the Killer's movement.
You can its called body blocking.
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