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Why won't BHVR let Killers see how many survivors are in a SWF in the lobby?

Zaydin
Zaydin Member Posts: 275
edited June 5 in General Discussions

That way killers can decide if they want to torture themselves against a group with a massive unfair advantage they can't counter.

Of course I know what SWF mains will say: "If you did that, no Killer would every play against a SWF!". Gee, it's almost like SWFS AREN'T FUN TO PLAY AGAINST'.

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Comments

  • tyantlmumagjiaonuha
    tyantlmumagjiaonuha Member Posts: 573

    Statistics show that 4SWF has only a 4% higher escape rate than soloQ, so few killers should avoid the lobby because of that. Survivor wait times will not increase even if implemented.

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 2,005

    Because this way SWFs wouldn't be able to play at all, since every self-respecting killer would just dodge them.

  • tyantlmumagjiaonuha
    tyantlmumagjiaonuha Member Posts: 573

    I am well aware of the credibility of the numbers BhVR publishes, as I have seen the days when they used to subdivide the park into slots 1-4 and publish each slot in order to deceive the DH usage rate.

  • Barbarossa2020
    Barbarossa2020 Member Posts: 1,369

    You can play as much as you like in kill your friends though. Oh you don't earn bp? Isn't the point to play with your friends and not farm bp? Or are you actually using a swf to farm bp?

    Just because you want to play with your friends, doesn't mean i want to.

  • Zaydin
    Zaydin Member Posts: 275
    edited June 5

    And I have a right to know the survivors have an advantage that I cannot counter, voice comms, and a right to decide if I want to play against people with an unfair advantage.SWF win rates might not be much higher than solo queue (or so BHVR said and I take their word with massive mounds of salts) but it's miserable to play against SWFs regardless.

    Yeah, because it's the same argument I always see SWFs use to argue against anything that could provide Killers info that they are at a disadvantage.

    The bad faith comparison SWF mains make is 'well why can't we see who the Killer is in matches'? Because that would allow SWFs to directly counter the Killers base kit. Going against the Doctor? Bring Calm Spirit. Going against the Plague? Bring things like No Mither or Resilience. Going against M1 Killers? Bring chase works since most of the M1 killers are incredibly weak.

    I find SWFs to be miserable to play against. I don't expect to win every match but to get stomped by a highly coordinated SWF and you feel helpless to do anything the entire time? That just makes me want to quit.

    Oh, about to get your first down? A SWF member rushes over and bodyblocks and sandbags you so you can't get the down. Oh, you got your first down? SWF rushes over with a flashlight, flash bang or sabos the nearest hook to you. Give up the chase because it's clear you're wasting your time? The SWF rushes over to quickly patch up the injured survivor meaning you spent your time in case for absolutely nothing.

  • Slowpeach
    Slowpeach Member Posts: 707

    This is why this game needs casual and competitive. One of DBD's biggest problems is that the game tries to appease both, fails and appeases nobody.

    Casual should be balanced around solo queue and thus be more survivor sided.

    Competitive should be balanced around SWF and thus should be more killer sided.

    More information should be available in competitive to both sides however dodging should be harshly punished with waits before you can queue again.

    This is obviously extremely oversimplified and details would be need to ironed out in a way a comment here won't do but just a general outline.

  • Zaydin
    Zaydin Member Posts: 275

    Because that would allow survivors to pick perks that hard counter the Killer. Knowing a survivor group is a SWF doesn't hard counter anything other than informing the Killer they are against a SWF.

    If SWF mains are so terrified they would get constantly lobby dodged, maybe BHVR should give killers a +200-300% BP incentive to play against SWFs.

  • vol4r
    vol4r Member Posts: 280

    IF killers would have such information then the only fair thing to do is let surviviors know what killer they are going against before the match starts. What do you think about that OP?

  • NekoGamerX
    NekoGamerX Member Posts: 5,292

    because swf want keep they bully sim.

    we should see who in swf after match tho.

  • Iron_Cutlass
    Iron_Cutlass Member Posts: 3,262

    I dont think BHVR should do this.

    Look at 95% of the multiplayer games that exist and most of them do not show if people are playing with their friends or not. Since realistically, yes they do gain an advantage, but at the same time it will lead to toxicity and harassment towards people who play with their friends.

  • The_Yosh
    The_Yosh Member Posts: 155
    edited June 5

    I'm not seeing the problem here? I'm getting 3k+ in at least 70% of my games. Most games are a 4k. What does people being in a SWF matter at this point?

    You can obviously tell when a group is not a SWF on comms. The game is disgustingly easy, and so boring that I end up apologising in endgame chat. I can't even imagine playing like that every game, there's no challenge. 😴

    I can just imagine killers joining and leaving lobbies over and over until they find a group of solo survivors with less than 500 hours. When I play survivor I can already see them doing it when they see a single P100 in a lobby.

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • Rudjohns
    Rudjohns Member Posts: 2,174

    I agree, killers should be able to see who is queuing up with who

    However, if you dodge a lobby, you should get a 5 minute penalty

  • warp1die
    warp1die Member Posts: 430

    Brother is a killer.
    You chose the wrong way to deal with the SWF. If you really want to defeat this many-headed hydra, you need to find allies. Those who suffered just as much because of the SWF. I'm talking about solo survivors. One of the most unfortunate roles along with killers.

    After all, all the misfortunes of solo survivors and killers occur through the fault of SWF. Solo survivors literally have to pay for all the shenanigans the SWF. The killers preemptively hit any lobby in anticipation of SWF. Both sides become miserable while treacherous SWF feast on the misfortune of solo survivors and killers.

    If we really want to overthrow the dictatorship of the SWF. Solo survivors and killers must strike a mutually beneficial deal. Together, go into a mode where playing with hooks will be an important part.

    Solo mode. Every 1-2 players receive a built-in Decisive Strike and Off the Record for each hook stage for 120 seconds until a noticeable action is made. They become more powerful if you take the perks of the same name. Plus, in case of a slug, when there are 2 survivors left, each acquires Decisive Strike, Off the Record and Unbreakable without noticeable actions.

    Survivors with friends. 3-4 players. An ordinary game. The killer can camp, tunnel and slug. Because the SWF will be able to easily resist all the dubious tactics of the killer.

    As a result, Killers will have a choice and each target group will get what they deserve. Thanks to this, there will not even be a lobby sale because each party will know where it is going.

    Play fair on hooks in solo mode and be severely punished if camping and tunneling occur. Or play dishonest games with SWF using dishonest tactics.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,882

    Those icons like the PlayStation or Xbox logos I think they'd have to pay for.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,882

    Something like half of all survs are in at least a two-man SWF, with trios much less common and quads even less so. Showing this info in the lobby would absolutely lead to mass lobby dodging and destroy MMR completely. Wait times for everyone, everywhere, would soar drastically as MMR is wreaked beyond repair.

    If they added in this wouldn't a killer shop around until they get just four solos, throw on Knock-Out and the like, and proceed to steamroll everyone? So SWF survs get no matches and they all quit the game. And solos survs are constantly crushed even more than now and they too quit the game.

    That leaves just you and bots. Have fun!

  • Slowpeach
    Slowpeach Member Posts: 707

    Incentives or bragging rights for doing well in comp like rankings or anything for people to give a damn about. You are ultimately not going to fix everything and some people will play just to stomp but that's already true.

    If anything the reverse could be a problem. Would there be a shortage on killers willing to play casual where things are harder? Going into details about how both would work, potential problems, pitfalls and solutions would be glossed over by almost everybody if not everybody.

    Whatever the case for as long as things stay the way they are, almost nobody is going to be happy. If anyone has a better idea for how to deal with the casual/comp and swf/solo divide I'm all ears.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,525

    If knowing it is a SWF group vs not a SWF group creates a scenario where everyone starts dodging the SWF groups, that would indicate that there is a problem with SWF and the game balance would it not?

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,525
    edited June 5

    The same reason they generally don't in other games.

    • DotA has a casual mode called "turbo" where the game is about half as long, the stakes are much lower, and the game is more chill. Yeah, competitive players sometimes play it, but usually to goof around with some crazy build or character.
    • CS2 has a casual mode where you get extra money and free armor and defuse kits and can leave and join as you please. Competitive players almost never play that mode, because this mode is inherently not competitive.
    • LoL has an unranked mode, and other casual modes like ARAM that give you random characters and throws everyone against each other in a single lane. Competitive players generally aren't playing this mode, and if they are its again, to goof around with stuff in a lower stakes game.
    • Overwatch has an unranked mode, where you can come and go, and the game is far more casual, competitive players generally aren't playing this mode and again, if they are its to goof around.

    What makes DBD so special that would make it exempt from this? And don't say "because it is asymmetrical" without explaining WHY.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,525

    Again, if that is the perception, would that not indicate that there is something to that perception? Its not like it just came out of nowhere and is completely factually untrue right? Even the data shows that SWF tend to escape more than solos. So again, i ask. Wouldn't that indicate that perhaps there is a problem in regards to game balance as it relates to SWF?

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,525

    I will be one of the first nurse mains to tell you that she is a problem. But currently she is the only killer that is viable at the highest of levels when there are no restrictions put upon survivors.

    I think we need to deal with the other 30+ killers first before we start addressing nurse.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 9,420

    So all survivors play casual mode to sweat and all killers play competitive mode to sweat, and nobody gets into any game.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,525

    Perception exists for a reason. Ignoring that means you are lacking empathy for other players who are experiencing things just because you don't see them.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 9,225

    Lets ask, why do you need to know?

  • CrackedShevaMain
    CrackedShevaMain Member Posts: 478

    So basically anyone who wants to play with friends shouldn’t be able to earn BP, XP and progress in the game? You sound absolutely ridiculous right now.

    I can’t tell you how many matches I play with a full SSF where we are simply there to meme for the laughs and we all leave with 5-10K BP.

    Sounds like you need to just play another game if you’re this upset about people being able to play with their friends without you knowing about it.

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 2,030

    We do have a lack of empathy because we lack information. Or more accurately, information we can trust. People have claimed this or that is "OP" when we've seen for ourselves it's not. At best, it was "OP" for that individual, at worst just ridiculous. It's all a matter of perspective yes. Looking at our perspective, we don't think its some horrible imbalance, while looking at previous posts others would very much disagree.

  • mizark3
    mizark3 Member Posts: 2,253

    Ehh it would be fine to reveal SWF status if we also make it so that backing out of a lobby as Killer counts as 1/2 a leave for the DC queue penalty (and Survivor as 1/4), with backout penalties being applied when you reach the next full number. Killers lobby dodging are already ruining the matchmaking, and you are matchmade against the team you are SUPPOSED to go against, whether it be solos, double duos, or a 4-man.

    The MMR is also already taking their dedicated 4-man advantages into account since they would have the higher escape rate. That means that SWFs are actually weaker than their equal MMR soloq counterparts, since the comms gave a fake MMR boost. (Eg. 1800 MMR soloq, or 1600MMR SWF + 200 comms bonus.) That means your chases as Killer are actually easier when going against SWFs.