"The Chucky Massacre"
This is for the Devs and Community. Hello everyone, DZM here (Chucky Main). To my knowledge Chucky wasn't changed because of the Scamper into SnD, y'all (BHVR) actually encourage using SnD more. States that he was changed because of the Scamper into basic (M1). Which wasn't an actual thing, all the survivor needs to do is run back around the pallet and they don't get hit by an M1, only way it's a "Free Hit" (M1) is if you have the Running Shoes add-on. Otherwise you don't get hit by an M1 because Chucky is too slow. Do the testing and you'll see. Wesker and Vecna actually get free hits (M1) when Vaulting and lifting pallets. He was fine just the way he was before the change. The removal of window Scampers also wasn't asked for and wasn't needed. A few people are saying this is a buff with the cooldown (which actually doesn't matter that much when survivors just predrop, you can SnD around but they'll just vault) and why this may be right to an extent everyone's missing the point. They have removed everything about the killer that made him fun and unique, (180 Flicks, Scamper Cancels, Scampers) and apparently some of his voice lines according to Mr. Smithsonian. He's just boring and doesn't feel good to play anymore, and I don't think anything needed to happen to him. Could have changed Running Shoes add-on. That's my take on the changes, please feel free to inform me or correct me if I am wrong about anything. Chucky is my favorite killer in the game and I don't think it's fair that he gets massacred because the community can't learn counterplay. In my opinion these changes killed Chucky.
My Suggestions: These are mainly gonna be Quality Of Life and Slight Buffs (Because he was fine the way he was, the Scamper had counterplay)
- Revert changes (Manual Pallet/ Window Scamper and Voice lines) make the Scamper a bit slower, more in tune with Wesker or Legions Vaults.
(Revert because once again Scamper into M1 isn't possible)
- Change, starts the trial with power off cooldown and Increase Hidey Ho mode cooldown to 15 Seconds
(Starts Trial with power off cooldown because Blight, Billy, Nurse, Spirit and various other killers start the trial with their powers. Cooldown to 15 Seconds to give Chucky the ability to use SnD as a map mobility tool because he currently has none, and to use power a bit more frequently because hitting someone w SnD then doing nothing for 20 sec felt so bad.)
- Change (Mirror Shards, Pile of Nails and Running Shoes)
Pile of Nails: 7 Seconds of Undetectable after manually exiting Hidey Ho mode. Mirror Shards: Turn rate add-on for SnD Scampers.
(You're giving up SnD which is a strong ability and usually results in a hit for 7 Sec of Undetectable which I think is fair.)
- Bring back the Scamper Cancel because it was fun and gave no competitive advantage.
These aim to bring back the fun and uniqueness of Chucky while giving survivors a bit more counterplay.
Comments
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Well I would not say he is too slow without it, because of his smaller hitbox the distance made is somewhat bigger than any other 110% ms killer. The addon that gives haste after scamper of course helps, but even without it you will get hits at longer loops, which is an issue... They ofc could have gone the way to just make Scamper longer as Scott asked for, but I don't mind this way either. Except for the window scamper maybe, I don't think that was an issue...
On a side note, if scamper into m1 isn't possible according to you, why do you increase the time it takes to scamper then? XD
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I like new Chucky more.
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I feel as if they've nerfed Scamper for the newer players who are complaining about it because the Scamper into M1 isn't possible VS Average survivors who know to just hold the loop tight. Otherwise there was no reason to nerf it. I say to make the Scamper take longer so It gives the players more time to make it around the loop, ensuring that you'll have to SnD to get a hit. Scamper into M1 isn't possible as long as the survivor knows what they're doing. Free hits happen when the survivor doesn't hold the loop tight or even hesitates to long to do so. So making the Scamper a bit longer will ensure that those newer players have more of a chance.
It's not a hit on small loop or big loops. It's not a hit at all if the survivor knows what they're doing.
Also, that video is from the Chucky PTB. Chuckys Scamper time was increased on live
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You may like the new Chucky more and I will agree that the 12 sec cooldown is nice and it makes him strong (not like top 10) but strong. That's not the point though. He is just boring and bland, point is they removed everything that made him fun for no reason.
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Which wasn't an actual thing, all the survivor needs to do is run back around the pallet and they don't get hit by an M1
It depended on the loop. And it was definitely a thing at god pallets.
Do the testing and you'll see
This isn't possible anymore though.
Wesker and Vecna actually get free hits
Wesker doesn't get free hits because he still has to charge his power (1.5 seconds) before he actually bounds into a pallet to vault it, after that he has a power cooldown. Vecna does get free hits but nerfs have already been announced.
There's no point of nerfing scamper in my opinion. Breaking pallets is a function that's already designed for a killer to deal with a pallet whilst giving survivors a chance to react whilst scamper lets you circumvent the pallet. If scamper gives survivors a chance to react then it's better to just break the pallet. (Scamper was 1.4, breaking pallets is 2.34, w/ Brutal Strength is 1.87)
I never made use of 180 flicks. I think the turn rate restriction is fine, especially on a 12 second cooldown.
Scamper Cancel was obviously unintended and i think it caused toxicity. Players that would post clips of them exploiting it in live matches also gatekept how to actually do it.
I think new chucky is still good and still has unique qualities.0 -
It doesn't depend on the loop, he's way to slow to catch up to make an M1. It's not about the loop, it's about the distance of the Good Guy to the survivor. It doesn't matter how big or small the loop is, as long as you scamper right after they drop you're always going to have the same amount of distance to the survivor unless they make a mistake (take it to wide, hesitate or just dont go back around). I've done the testing. I would post my clips but they don't accept certain file types. (Eventually I'll figure it out).
Maybe it was a thing on God Pallets but think about what you just said "God Pallets". God Pallets shouldnt exist anyway, they provide no counter play for the killer. You just have to break and give the survivor free distance. So God Pallets w no counter play for killers is ok, but a killer who has the ability to turn that into a hit (Counter play) is not? It's apart of the killers power, it's like going VS a Nurse. You're not going to complain that nurse can avoid all pallets, so why is it a problem that Chucky can turn God Pallets against the survivors if his power is up? Also using the "It's a free hit at God Pallets" isn't fair considering other killers can do the same thing like Wesker and Legion (Vault), Vecna (Fly) , Nurse (Blink). I don't see why Chucky Scampering would be any different from those. Aswell as the killers who Js get hits when u drop such as Pyramid Head, Xeno, Huntress (M2).
Breaking pallets is a function designed for killers but Chucky had the ability to actually play them instead of just breaking them, that's what made him fun and unique. Now he's just like every other killer. He's worse a 110 Wesker.
I've seen people get hits as Wesker after a vault but it wasn't very consistent so touché.
Nobody got to make use of the 180 Flick, you could only do it on PC with a Mouse and it was removed when Chucky came to live.
I agree, the turn rate is completely fine, if they make it any better it will be to strong.
Scamper Cancel wasn't intended but still it was fun and gave no advantage. It never caused Toxicity, legit nothing you can do with it. It was a "Hey look what I can do moment" nothing else and thus no reason for removal. I suppose this is no different from the removing "Space" and "Sky" Billy.
New Chucky may be "Fine" (110 doesnt justify his power anymore, he still has the Flick bug (where you can flick into doorways). Other than that he's ok.
That's not the point though. Once again, point I'm trying to make is he's not Fun anymore, they removed everything that made him fun a unique for zero reason because he had counter play.
Scamper was a big part of him especially when combined with SnD, Scamper into M1 wasn't a thing and didn't result in a M1 80% of the time (the other 20% is the God Pallets, which is fair because it's a God Pallet.) Scamper was a part of his basekit and gave him options on how he wanted to play the loop. Now he has one play, SnD 50/50. That's it, he's simply boring. He has access to a Dash every 12 sec. Very underwhelming compared to what he once was. I disagree about him having "Unique Qualities". He has a Dash and some voice lines. Pig has a Dash, Coup exists, Wesker, Singularity, Vecna and various other killers have Voice lines (btw they removed some of Chuckys voice lines as well).
(Little bit unrelated, just thought it was funny) There's a video by "The Fake Bannette" titled in Memory of Scamper or something like that where he goes around getting hits with Scamper into M1 whilst using the Running Shoes add-on. If it was a free hit and a thing then why is he using the add-on? (Go figure it's because it wasn't a hit.) He also states that he had to go out of his way to get those hits which he could have just SnD and got them sooner.
I will die on this hill, Scamper into M1 wasn't a thing. Eventually everyone will see, there are people who know and agree. Chucky was fine the way he was, people just need to learn the counterplay.
Post edited by DemonZeroM on0 -
If it was not possible vs average survivors people would not have complained would they? I doubt the slight difference in scamper time from PTB to live would have changed that hit around shack, would it? it was like 0.1 sec or something really small like that was it not?
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The people who are complaining are the people who don't know what they're talking about. The people who don't understand that if they get hit then they made a mistake or the Chucky has Running Shoes. The survivors who are making mistakes. The people who are taking the loop to wide or hesitateing. You should always assume that if Chucky has power up then he's going to Scamper in which you play accordingly (running back around the loop).
As for the hit around shack, they're are elements to an extent that you have to consider. That was the old PTB Scamper time, there is a Hook on the corner (rng element of the game) so the survivor makes less distance then they'd make VS the hook not being there and he is literally running the Running Shoes add-on. That's why he makes the hit because he is 5% faster. If you try that on live after he was released without Running Shoes and the Hook not spawning there then she makes it back around. By the time he Scampers and makes the corner, she'd already be at the edge of the other end just rounding the corner.
Post edited by DemonZeroM on1 -
Well i don't know what to say. It was a thing in my experience, without running shoes and the devs are saying it's a thing.
He's still good for me because he's still the best stealth killer due to being so short, has 3rd person perspective and slice and dice is fun to use and relatively easy to hit.0 -
A. Him having a specific addon does not mean the survivor missplayed. B. When you immediatly run around the loop assuming he is going to scamper he can either just mind game and catch you off guard, or force you around the other way so you are both closer to the pallet and he can get the hit again… Scamper took 1.4 seconds instead of 1.2 seconds then the survivor gets an additional 80cm of distance… Wow that's going to take some time catching up, if only there was no the lunge attack or the dash to still get the hit. The haste effect got reduced from 4% to 2% ok, no clue if it would have made a difference, but I don't think so, because there is still the dash attack.
The issue stays, you just scamper and then either take the m1 or use the dash, in case the loop is too short, in which case you are still getting hit no matter what you did…
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Never said that him having an add-on means the survivor misplayed. And if he mindgames or catches you off guard then that's a good play on his part and he should get rewarded for it. No different from a 50/50 vs Huntress or Xeno. U keep running and they pull then u win, u drop and they're ready then they win. If u drop and instead of Scampering he mindgames then that's the survivors fault because they weren't ready for it. Play accordingly, pay attention to what the killers doing. U can hear him Scamper, the sound of him Sliding and the laugh he makes as if he outplayed you. If u don't hear that the sec u drop them that means he didn't Scamper. It's not that hard, I've had no problems facing Chuckys. I've ran them for so long because I actually know how to play against the killer. Take the time to learn how to play VS the killer. Like if you get mindgamed instead of him Scampering like u thought he would then that's a good play by the killer because they were unpredictable.
The haste did get reduced but in that vid it was 5% not 2%. And yes there's a Dash, but that dash can still be dodged if the survivors are unpredictable or if they crouch or hide behind something. Dash still has turning restrictions and can be very easily dodged. Good players have dodged my SnD alot. I've had people run back into me and I'm not ready for it. Ive had people with great movement who Js dodge. Y'all act like it can't be dodged.
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You just said people should pre run away from the pallet as to not get caught by the scamper into m1, but in that case you cannot possibly position yourself in that way, because you would run it ineffectively and not sticking close to the loop, which is a contradiction to what you said earlier, that the correct play is to just keep running after the droop and not wait… And it still does nothing because he can just dash you before you make the pallet again.
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I'm not contradicting myself, I nvr said that survivors should pre run away from the pallet. I said "You should always assume that if Chucky has power up then he's going to Scamper in which you play accordingly (running back around the loop)." That's what most players are going to do and if they don't then great play by them. The correct play if he's in power and he Scampers is to run back around and vault the pallet, it's a split second decision that you have to make. If u wait to long then he'll hit u, if u go to early then he might mind game. It's no different from a Wraith Bodyblock. Split Second decision. Him being able to Dash so u don't make the pallet is ok, nobody had a problem with that. BHVR encouraged ppl to use his power more. Once again the Dash can be dodged with a bit of unpredictability. I had survivor just yesterday who just completely left the loop and I didn't realize because of the way I had to angle my camera, so I jus ended up missing because he left. I've also had players who know that I'm gonna SnD around the loop after a Scamper so they'll crouch or go really wide or run back into me and I'm not ready for it so I miss. A good play by them, the SnD can be dodged. You can adapt to how the killer plays, if they Scamper and SnD the 1st time then they're likely gonna do it again and you'll be ready for it, or they might change it up which is a good play by them because they were unpredictable. Survivors just have to be ready for anything.
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That just seems like semantics… If you call it pre-run because you cannot wait at the pallet for him to scamper it or "run around and vault the pallet" that is basically the same…
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Still trying to figure out exactly when I ever said that you should pre run away from the loop. I never said any of that lol but ok. Putting words in my mouth.
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You said "run around and vault the pallet" as I quoted there, but basically that is nothing else than pre-running (pre as in before he vaults, while not staying close by because then you just get hit). And what I said is that this is only semantics, as there is not really a difference between those two things. So no, I am not putting words in your mouth.
Running away from the pallet and leaving the loop maybe not, but running around the loop and back towards the pallet again.
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Ok, I appreciate u clearing that up. Next time explain your thinking because you'll confuse people.
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I thoroughly enjoy the new Strobing Light & Silk Pillow add-on reworks.
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Please don't spread misinformation. Those addons were not reworked or touched in any way. Thank you
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I haven't gone against a single chucky since the change nor do i expect to either one of my fav characters an won't even get to face him now
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Im sorry man, feels bad. I haven't played since the changes (I plan to return during the anniversary though). I played a bit of new Chucky and he just doesn't feel the same and he's quite 1 Dimensional and boring IMO. Survivors get away with so much VS him now in my experience. Nobody played him that much before the changes anyway, now no one's gonna play him at all. Chucky is becoming one of the rarest killer to face in the game. I predict that eventually he will be Twins, Hag or Singularity status soon. Killed a once beloved Character and I'm so happy that some people agree and I love to see the support for everyones favorite Killer Doll.
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Strobing Light was. Thank you.
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