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The Vecna nerf complaints
I am convinced that the people who are complaining about Vecna's Mage Hand being nerfed legitimately only play killer and have no experience of what Vecna is like as survivor.
Survivor has been miserable since yesterday
Comments
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I play about 40/60 Survivor/Killer.
I've been countering Mage Hand pretty well. Especially with Interloper gear.
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The enduring stuff should absolutely go. Otherwise, no further nerfs are needed.
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The small nerf it is getting surely won't be a big deal though, Mage Hand will still be good. I think it's good that they are nerfing Mage Hand just a bit beyond the Enduring interaction.
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Where is the info on the Mage Hand nerf?
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They do? Mage hand is in a perfect spot right now. I dont know why this is happening.
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If you have Interloper it's no big deal, but aside from that Mage Hand feels about as interactive as old Scamper did from the survivor side.
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I knew it...no wonder BhVR was sold in an enhanced state from PTB and then immediately nerfed, which was the norm.
Since this comes after the last few days when the ways to get around and deal with the chase against the rich have started to become a little more popular, maybe they don't even want to give the survivor players the pleasure of trial and error at the earliest.
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yup, playing for stun is the counterplay if you have no distance and spell still going off after a stun removes any potential counterplay, except praying to get that 7% haste magic item.
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Enduring thing has to go
But overall, i find vecna to be in the lower tiers. I start to match people that learned how to play against him. You'd think you have plenty of options, but in fact, they are all pretty easily counterable
I didnt play with addons yet, i want to experience the killer in his vanilla state
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Then why is the mage hand presumably getting nerfed outside of the enduring "tech"?
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I would argue it isn't quite. It can lead to free hits a bit too often. I would have rather nerfed the movement speed of Mage Hand a bit though, but I guess increasing the time it takes to lift a pallet is also fine.
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is it? honestly i haven't played the game since the release so don't know much. it does seem to be in good place, hopefully they don't make it useless.
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Its a mindgame power. Survivors that mindlessly play around pallets get heavily punished, while making good reads is hevaily rewarded (except enduring).
Seems good to me.
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I've found Mage Hand to have very little counterplay.
You throw the pallet, and Mage Hand lifts it before you can gain any sort of real distance resulting in a free hit.
You greed the pallet, and by time Mage Hand expires, you still get hit.
You leave the loop, and Vecna immediately catches up to you.
It certainly doesn't help that there's little to no information currently available on how you should counter Mage Hand.
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Ok about the mage hand, but what about the two hit action? Where Vecna can launch his skelettons and hit you immediatly with the M1?
It's the only problem for me as survivor, the mage hand is… Not really a problem I think0 -
How can he do it? it is a bug?
When you launch the (totally crouchable) skeletons, Vecna still has some slowdown and a small delay.
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I only escaped a game against Vecna once… because he let me go
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What's worse is addon nerfs and FoTD nerfs, those can very well kill the killer just like they did with merchant chucky and the sadako
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Vecna getting nerfed 3 days from being on live servers lets goo xD
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Technically, yes, when I play him, it's the case
But I got two three Vecna when he launch his skeletons, you crouch (or not) and got at you immediatly and hit you in the same times than the skeletons
I want to face more Vecna for understanding how to avoid that, or how they do that0 -
Nerfing his only reliable chase power is crazy, not talking about that you even are to keep the pallet
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What FoTD nerfs is he getting?
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I've been trying to treat him like a chainsaw killer; give him a wide berth by pre running and being aware and force him to spend as much time it takes to hook you.
It's tight but making a correct read on whether or not Vecna will use Mage Hand or bait you does seem to help a little bit.
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At my MMR, there's a 90% chance that Vecna will use Mage Hand. Whether it's to block the pallet, or lift it. I can still run him for a decent amount of time, I just feel like there isn't enough counterplay surrounding the usage of pallets.
I see Vecna casting Mage Hand, so I throw the pallet to buy a little time, but the Pallet is lifted almost as soon as the animation to throw it has finished. Hopefully this small nerf will change that. If not, guess I'll just have to figure out which loops I can greed and which ones I can't when playing against Vecna.
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Im so glad i did not buy this chapter Vecna only decent power is getting nerfed now hes just back to being DTier FOTD aint gonna be anything useful cause crouching it is stupid easy flight and orb aint gonna help hes going back to PTB Vecna strength as an m1 killer
i encourage everyone to not buy future chapters on release day give it a week or two
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I play both roles and mage hand is 100% counterable. You can bait out mage hand or greed pallets until he is forced to use it and just keep running around the tile until it runs out. You can also use window loops where mage hand isn't even usable.
People complaining about Mage Hand are people who are used to being able to pre-drop every pallet on the map and win. When that doesn't work they call the killer OP and demand nerfs instead of learning to play different.8 -
This new change makes mage hand worst that the ptb version, so you should not even worry about it existing in the first place after the update.
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Not defending the nerf, but considering its new chapter, and we got a bunch of people playing again like every new chapter, the more casual playerbase is struggling with dealing with it right now (Even though if you get the Mage Hand Item, it actually is pretty good against it.)
Agree with this, playing Greedy with the pallet, with the Mage Hand item is the best way to play against it, and if he uses it to hold the pallet, you get another loop and you can stun him, or atleast make him break the pallet while you get to another loop.
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Absolutely not true. In the ptb, Vecna had to endure a massive slowdown after using Mage Hand, none of that is being reverted.
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I like Vecna i really do, but i am starting to notice some issues. Mage hand. Its really hard to dodge. Yeah it wont last long but trying to survive another loop will result a hit or down. Fact that he can just stop a pallet or raise a pallet and walk through with almost 0 cooldown is a problem.
Second problem i have is his flight of the damned. The skill itself is fine. I have no issues of killers having ranged attacks, but i have an issue that when he uses it in chase you eather crouch and get hit by Vecna himself or don't crouch and take the hit from the skulls. There is no avoiding being hit. This is while in chase. Off chase that attack is easy to dodge.
So i'm not sure if he's just another W killer who forces you to run forward until you go down. His cooldowns are long yes but he technically has 2 skills that will give him 2 hits no matter what in chase and me personally i am not a fan of hits you have no way to avoid.
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Actually true, I forgot that part, maybe the lack of the stun can make it work. Well have to see, im just glad I didnt get vecna before.
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Mage Hand is a bit overtuned, but FoTD is fine in my opinion. There are more than enough situations in which crouching to dodge FoTD doesn't result in a basic attack hit. And if you try to dodge in between the skeletons, chances are you lose less distance by doing so.
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Cant you just keep running between the gaps of flight of the damned tho? Unless vecna spawn them directly inside your hitbox you can move slightly to position yourself in the gaps if you dont wanna crouch.
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I wouldn't consider that a tech
Techs require some thought process like orobending or cj.
Because I can call slapping enduring and 2 charge addons on bubba and call that a teck then
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Mage hand literally serves no purpose if you can't get hits on pallets off of it.. like the entire spells use is to deal with pallets. I guess it interacts with lockers in some way but it seems way too meme.
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I wouldnt call it a tech. Therefore my markings…
Lets be honest, a CJ often means less though process XD
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The first one isn't even a nerf because using Mage Hand right on top of a Survivor is the best play, so reducing the range from 16 to 14 m does nothing.
And increasing the pick up time to 0.5 probably won't be to harsh either, picking up a pallet was already better in the PTB than holding down the pallet and gave you hits most of the time.. and that was when Vecna had that extremely harsh speed penalty of 2.3 m/s on top of the 0.5 sec animation.
Now he'll pick it up in 0.5 seconds once again BUT will move at 3.68 m/s, which is still.. barely any distance lost. So it'll still be a free hit most of the time.
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A friend of mine - she is one of the best DBD players i know - made some testing with Vecna and his Flight, Mage Hand and Flight of The Dammned and concluded it can be countered by pre-dropping a pallet and standing right next to it. Vecna cooldowns are long enough to just body block him before he can use the M1 for Mage Hand or you can "window tech" Vecna after he uses flight by standing right next to the pallet - Vecna gets teleported right behind the survivor, giving enough time to vault; staying crouched make Flight of Dammned harmless.
Really, this killer has MANY counters.
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Oh OK wasn't sure
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If I got to vs a vecna id let you know
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I think they are moving too fast. They need to fix the obvious bug and then wait and see how it goes.
The reality is, there is a mindgame there, but survivors haven't learned it yet and because of that they are having a hard time. I have played against vecna quite a bit at this point and the mindgame is really easy once you get the hang of it.
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were forgetting Vecna cant attack for a set time when using mage hand so on small loops MH will be useless
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I have already gone against multiple survivors who have successfully dodged mage hand. The only thing hard about it imo is getting out of the mindset of camping or pre-dropping pallets. Which a lot of survivors like to do and it works against a lot of killers even though it really shouldn't.
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Since people are talking about FoTD, I just recently, very roughly, ran the numbers.
While casting Vecna is slowed to 4.0 (losing 0.6)
For 2 Seconds after Casing, Vecna is Slowed to 3.68 (losing 0.92)
If you cast for 1 second considering Aiming and predicting Movement,
the slowdown over those 3 seconds is 2.34mThe real question is how long a survivor has to crouch.
Let's say he crouches for a whole second but keeps pressing W.
Then for that whole second he loses 2.87
Meaning that in that space of time, Vecna gains 0.53 Meters on a survivor.
If during that time both parties just held W, Vecna would have gained 1.8 meters.
So if the excuse for FoTD being dodged by crouching is "but the survivor is slow"
Then that is technically true, but it is still worse in terms of chase power than just pressing W.0 -
It's not about if they only play killer. The bottom line is, it hasn't even been a week since he was released and people are already whining about him. Most people haven't even learned how to play with him, which is what the problem is. But of course, they cater to the whiners as usual. There's nothing wrong with him, and he's already counterable.
On top of that, his cooldowns are long and to be honest his abilities aren't even all that. The only good one is the hand they want to nerf. I rarely ever even see anyone using his other abilities, probably because they're also counterable with the items you get from the chests. But even so, now they nerf his abilities on top of already long cooldowns and his one good ability?1 -
People will always complain if they don't have regular 4k's after 10 games.
That's what it is, you don't even need to discuss it, it's a hard fact.
I would also like to be able to speak Chinese by tomorrow. If I can't do it, I definitely expect Chinese to become easier… kappa
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High disagree, people aren't learning counter play because there is no counter play.
You get to a pallet, he uses mage hand and lifts it and retains his speed. You get hit.
You duck his skulls, he retains his speed, you get hit.
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