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Interloper is a Requirement Against Vecna
Comments
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Why is Vecna getting nerfed (not counting the bug) after not even full 3 days? Is this the old-Freddy situation all over again? Rush quick nerfs because people couldn't adapt yet?
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It really isn't. It is way too soon to be changing a killer just because people refuse to learn to play different.
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It is, many people have already figured out how to use Mage Hand, and how there isn't a lot of counterplay against it.
The nerf is going to happen, and that's a good thing.
Go to 6:35 and see for yourself how even predropping the pallet with as much distance as Kate has in this video doesn't help against Mage Hand. What exactly was Kate supposed to do in this situation? The nerf to Mage Hand is going to make that ability at least a bit more manageable.
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There is hella counterplay to mage hand. For one, don't pre drop the pallet or try to camp it when he has mage hand available. Greed it until he uses the block and run back around and drop it when it runs out. You can bait a drop to get him to use it to pick up the pallet only to have it be blocked instead, and run back around and drop it, etc.
You can't sit there and try to do the same thing you do against every m1 killer with no anti-loop in the game and then say there isn't any counterplay.4 -
You can bait a drop to get him to use it to pick up the pallet only to have it be blocked instead, and run back around and drop it, etc.
You can do it once, but the next loop you need something else because between the 2 tiles, the Lich usually sends these Skeletons that you need to dodge too. So you probably will lose half a second and you can be downed by a free hit just before to reach the pallet from the 1st.loop.
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- Two days since the chapter was released, and the killer is already nerfed.
- Mage's hand cannot be used all the time, because 38 sec CD
- Can still be countered by the survivor when he knows the spell's activation time
- But players don't like learning how to counter a killer, because they're spoiled kids
- BHVR bends the knee
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The problem was the addon (Ring of telekineses) made mage hand busted you don't need to basekit nerf Mage hand just rework the addon THATS IT. The bug is fine to fix Mage hand is gonna go back to being useless as it was in the PTB if your gonna gut his only viable power BUFF HIS OTHER POWERS IN EXCHANGE. FOTD is still useless cause crouching hard counters, Sphere is info, fly is mobility he has no lethality hes just an m1 killer now
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You can do it once, but the next loop you need something else because between the 2 tiles, the Lich usually sends these Skeletons that you need to dodge too. So you probably will lose half a second and you can be downed by a free hit just before to reach the pallet from the 1st.loop.
Where is the "free hit" here? All of this requires the killer player to time their powers correctly and be chasing the survivor effectively enough to catch up at the same time.
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Had a match earlier where survivors did it all game and managed a 3 man out. There is no "free hit" here. In all of this the killer player had to time their abilities right while also continuing to chase and catch up to the survivor in order for the zoning aspect of flight of the damned to even matter. All while FOTD is the easiest killer power to dodge in the entire game.
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This is horrible practice and you guys should know that.
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Here's a better idea, how about we just don't do that?
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Killer receives 16 buffs after a handful days of PTB. Reverting the one enabling the most braindead plays after a couple days of live is ridiculous though.
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You have to admit that he was terribly weak before all that buffs...
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See that's not true. Once Vecna catches up to the survivor enough, blocking the pallet will result in a free hit. The slowdown vecna has to endure is not enough for the survivor to then make it around the loop another time. Unless the survivor has the interloper item. And it's even worse if Vecna has the Boots of Speed addon, which also still needs a nerf or rework.
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I couldn't say. I didn't pay attention to the PTB.
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Well then I guess you could watch some videos on that, he got slowed down massively for everything he did and the cooldown were even higher.
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That's entirely beside my point. I'm not saying all these buffs are unreasonable. I'm saying that reverting one of these buffs is reasonable especially if it's anti-gameplay like this.
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I don't know if that is so sure, given how little time it has been since it has been introduced... Giving it a week before deciding should be the minimum...
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What does time change in the math? He can quite literally just walk through the pallet. Safety is as good as a deadzone when mage hand is involved and all you're doing is hoping for a mistake on Vecna's part.
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If you don't drop it when he is super close you can just re-drop it and then his ability is on a 38 second cooldown. Maybe people just need to understand to not greed pallets against him in that way.
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Any plans to address the fact that the other 3 abilities are one that can't actually get your hits, and the other 2 are pretty useless at it? Why in the hell can you just crouch to dodge one of them when it already is hard to hit with? Why does it telegraph even through walls that the killer used it? Why does it all have such a long cooldown despite being so weak?
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Look at 6:39 and how close he is to the pallet. 8:48 is how your suppose to counter-play the ability. this is one survivor that does counter-play correctly. you see how far he drops the pallet ahead and then makes back around loop. You have to calculate the distance needed to make back around loop preemptively. If Vecna had boot of speed add-on, he would need to drop it 1-2 second earlier which would be 8:46-8:47.
This is why mage hand does not need nerfs. survivor need to adapt and learn it is gameplay. the killer is new. the killer players already mastered how to use ability but survivor have yet to learn how to counter it.
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Incorrect. The only reason the survivor is able to counterplay at 8:48 is because they have the interloper item. Otherwise they would have gotten hit as well.
I get that if you have a huge amount of distance, you can predrop the pallet, but the distance is just too much to be reasonable, in most cases you will not have that distance to Vecna. Especially considering Vecna also has Fly as an ability.
So yes, Mage Hand does need the nerf and it is getting it deservedly.
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I really agree on the ring and the bug but I don't agree on the basekit change.
I with other members think that this change is fast, we don't need a change on the next hotfix patch, think about the nerf doesn't run away. it's a number change not a rework.
With all my respect, nerf the ring and think about the haste addon, both of these are problematic, but basekit. It's just decent, If played right by the survivor, you rather need to break the pallet instead of lifting it up.
To know the timing is necessary, especially If you fix his bug. Then it's even easie to judge If he needs a basekit change. Please take your time on this one.2 -
There are going to be situations in the game where you are going to lose no matter what you do. That isn't a problem with the game. That is just how games work. In general, however, greeding pallets and baiting out mage hand will work against Vecna. Just because it doesn't ALWAYS work doesn't mean it needs to be changed. If every killer had counterplay that just always worked no matter how close the killer is to you or how the killer reacts then every killer would be D tier.
Also boots of speed are actual garbage. 2 seconds of 5% haste is completely worthless except in the most specific cases. Especially in a loop where can't even hug it as tight as the survivor can.2 -
No it really doesn't work at all. Only against Vecnas that aren't experienced enough yet to know that you can just currently react to the pallet drop instead of predicting it. That's the problem. How do you bait out an ability that can just be used on reaction instead of prediction? Once the nerf hits live, then you will be able to bait out Mage Hand, because Vecna will be forced to use Mage Hand by predicting when the survivor will drop the pallet.
Even with the nerf, you will still be able to get guaranteed hits by blocking the pallet if you are close enough to the survivor when they reach the pallet. But that I would argue is ok since it has a 38 second cooldown. However, right now, even if the survivor has a fair amount of distance to Vecna, they have no counterplay, because predropping the pallet doesn't work since Vecna can just react to the drop instead of predicting it, getting a guaranteed hit anyways. With the nerf coming, Vecna will have to use Mage Hand on prediction, which will open up possible mind games with Mage Hand as long as the survivor has a bit of distance to Vecna.
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Huh I must have imagined all those survivors doing it to me. /s
it absolutely does work. It has happened to me when I play Vecna and I have done it against Vecna.3 -
Again, how do you bait out an ability that Vecna can simply use on reaction? He just has to react to the pallet drop and that's it, or he blocks the pallet in time if survivors get in stunning range of him and gets a hit that way.
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You greed the pallet until he is catching up. He will either respect to try to get the lift which can give you distance, or he won't in which case you can just drop the pallet on him. You can pretend like you are going to drop the pallet when he is close and get him to block the pallet instead and then he won't have mage hand available for 38 seconds.
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But again, if he is close enough to the survivor that the survivor can get a stun against Vecna, Vecna can just block the pallet and get a hit like that. Survivors need some distance in order for block to not lead to a hit, because the slowdown after using Mage Hand is rather little.
Mage Hand has a bit of counterplay, like at loops where Vecna can not see the survivor, he can not know whether the survivor is waiting at the pallet for a stun or not. But the counterplay is too little at the moment. Once the nerf happens, survivors will be able to mindgame mage hand if they have enough distance, because Vecna will be forced to use Mage Hand on prediction instead of reaction.
The nerf Mage Hand will receive is completely fine, believe me. Mage Hand will still be strong after the nerf, you'll just have to try and predict whether a survivor will drop the pallet or not.
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If he blocks the pallet the survivor usually has enough time to make it around the loop again before vecna can hit them unless he is just right on top of them when the block happens - in which case he just timed it correctly and should get the hit. That is how the killer being right on the survivor should work most of the time imo.
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But Vecna kind of needs to be on top of the survivor for the survivor to stun Vecna. That's the point. Survivors can't really go for the stun against Vecna because then he can block the pallet and get a hit like that. There certainly are exceptions to this but not enough.
It's whatever anyways, they nerfed Mage Hand now and I hope it's a fair spell now.
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