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Now that we all had a good laugh, can we revert the sabo buff ?
I think the joke has lasted long enough, don't you ?
Comments
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Yeah, I mean it was fairly obvious just by doing the math, no clue why they thought this was a good idea…
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I haven’t even seen the effects of the sabo buff in any of my matches. Everyone is still having fun memeing with bardic inspiration. 🤣🤣
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Nobody's memeing in my games, only people abusing sabo and regression nerf
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I almost never see Sabo. Once again, an overraction of the Forum.
I only saw a failed Sabo-Attempt against me and a successful when playing Survivor (even tho the Survivor doing Sabo could have just saved me with a Pallet).
But I guess I am the exception and you all go against Sabo-Squads 24/7.
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Oh yeah the good ol "i don't see it it doesnt exist"
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Even Otz hates these sabo changes shows how insanely these buffs are
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Ah yes, because if Otz says something, this is absolute gospel. Otz is "worried" about like 50% of the Survivor-Changes and is almost never right.
It is just if you people get Sabo-Squads so often, it would be very strange if I never encountered Sabotage.
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Majority of people agree with otz opinions which is why its treated like gospel just cause your a hater doesn't mean hes wrong
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I am not a Hater. But I just dont blindly follow the popular content creator. I have 9,5k hours in DBD, I think I am able to build my own opinion on the game without the help of Otz.
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Maybe you are playing at extremely low MMR literally no one bother to play seriously, we never know
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Ah, the classic. When there is no argument the other side has to be low MMR. In a game where nobody can actually see their own MMR.
But yeah, you all must be at Gigachad-MMR and I am at the minimum MMR. This is the explanation.
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Well, Otz usually supports everything the devs do, whatever it might be, he even supports that 60% target killrate ridiculousness. If even someone who is always in favor of the devs' actions is concerned, it really might tell something.
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As I said, Otz often says he is "worried" about certain things, mainly on Survivor Side and they turn out to be nothing.
I mean, I personally dont even care about Sabo, I am not using it, because it is still too weak to be viable. But I just hate this overreaction all the time when anything on Survivor Side is buffed, even if it turns out that it is still irrelevant. (And IMO weak Sabotage is good, because hooking is a basic concept of the game. And curren Sabotage is still weak and I am fine with it)
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You don't care because you don't use it, but the point is to have it used against you by a 4man. Also, it's a change that purely buffed SWFs without changing soloQ much, so they are actively buffing the strongest role in the game without addressing the SWF vs soloQ issue, just showing how far they are from actually understanding the state their game is in at the moment.
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The thing is, they try to give Survivors alternatives aside from just sitting on a Gen. They removed Background-Player and FTP/Buckle Up, now they added sabotage as something to do for Survivors aside from doing Gens. (Yes, they did not remove it, but they nerfed the Perks in a way that they are not really worth using anymore)
And this is the closest they can do for a secondary Objective. And it promotes Killer/Survivor-Interaction.
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I can imagine this dialogue happening near a whiteboard at their game designers meeting, where people who don't play public trials more than a couple of hours a month decide what is good for the game. When in reality we see the increase in power for bully squads, and the abyss between soloQ and SWF is only becoming broader. Because obviously, they don't play soloQ so much to notice the state it is in, and they don't meet 4man bully squads. The justification you just provided makes perfect sense for someone with only a tangent understanding of the game, it's literally the manager talk with this "secondary objective", while nobody in the actual player community has mentioned the "secondary objective" for years, people are now much more concerned about soloQ being so miserable and about the stress of versing 4man bully squads, the issues they are actively refusing to address because they don't even seem to know they exist.
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That's my experience too. Lost a game because of a failed sabo attempt by a team mate. It basically snowballed after that.
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I do believe that the devs had to have had a reason to buff sabo, and the reasonable assumption would be because it wasn't popular and not very often successfull. I've seen it probably in 4 or 5 games since the buff, and I play around 20 games typically when I can, but I am in no way claiming that your experience is the same, just stating my own.
I'm sorry that you're experiencing it at a different level, hopefully it will die down in your future games.
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Like he's a reliable person to base your opinion on. C'mon now, get real.
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If people have been trying the sabo stuff I start slugging and almost each of the teams have crumbled, personally 🤷♂️
that’s… like… not even close to being remotely true. Have you even watched Otz talk about the game? A quick look at his discord channel where he gives quick thoughts and opinions on patch notes even shows that he constantly has concerns about stuff and critical of things.4 -
Haven't had any issues yet, but I still think the Commodious and Alex's buffs should be reverted, or at the least toned down.
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it is weird because they add secondary objective for survivor to use in background player and FTP+Buckle up then nerf those perk to the ground such that they're not worth putting into a load out.
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Saying that to someone with roughly 30x your posts is kinda wild. I don't know this player at all, but skill issue doesn't seem like the best call. Attempting to devalue their credibility instead of their argument only makes them sound more right.
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Use this build and never hook anyone
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There are several characters who have not yet used up their Alex toolboxes, so please wait to nerf them.
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Considering @Aven_Fallen has literally played against Otz, I HIGHLY doubt they're low mmr
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Actually evil, but it needs Purple and Green Windstorm to truly reach its potential.
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I don't understand why they even buffed it tbh. Like sabo squads were already fine if that's what you wanted to do. Now it's possible for someone to body block, tank a hit & sabo then still manage to run away if they happen to be in the vicinity of a down and have a tool box.
It's obviously intended to make it more viable in solo queue just like the flashlight buffs a while back. Changes like this just make bully squad SWFs significantly more powerful which is especially bad for newer killers that want to get into the game.
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Probably because they thought they went way too far with it. Personally, I never had a problem with BGP or with FTP+Buckle Up, because a failed attempt (and those indeed happened as well) gave a lot of value to the Killer. But I can understand that it can be frustrating if the Killer does not even have to be in the same postcode as the Survivor to be vulnerable to a Flashlight or Pallet Save.
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I use those add-ons because it gives mangled, hemorrhage and blindness
If I down them after the uncloak they will not see their teammates, and if someone comes to heal them its gonna be slower
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To be fair, a lot of posts must not mean anything. But yeah, most likely it means that the person is also playing the game for a long time and therefore they are most likely not on low MMR. But things like this happened in the past as well, I remember someone saying that I must be low Rank and even a Screenshot did not convince them, because it might not be me (despite having my name on the Screenshot as well). 😅
I havent played against him in a while, but I would probably not realize it because he is Anon as far as a I know. If I appeared in a video or so, I would be happy about a DM with it :)
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FTP+Buckle up got nerfed for same reason decisive strike got nerfed in the end game. killers do not like end-game perks that allow the survivor to escape for —free—. Adrenaline has that same issue and still remains to be problematic to this day for this exact issue. Background player was uncounterable for pallet saves. pallet saves are like sabotage with less investment.
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They've tried this numerous times to give the 'secondary objective' that people (killers) are clamoring for.
But that alternative can't be beneficial to survivors, we tried that with boons.
It can't involve interacting with the killer, apparently, because bu+ftp, BP+FB, and now sabo.
The only thing that hasn't been complained about in this regard is the invocation, which, even after being buffed, is still a killer perk.
At this point, 'secondary objective' is just code for 'they need more gens'.
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Spot on. When killer mains say "secondary objective", they mean something that puts survivors at a disadvantage by wasting their time for little or no value. The devs are, thankfully, smart enough to know that won't work and they need to incentivise survivors to spend their precious seconds elsewhere by dangling the prospect of reward or value for their efforts. That's how survivors will spend less time on their primary objective.
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code for nerf genrushing.
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Do you know how the soft cap works? I once had a game against Otzs Doctor and my survivor is dogwater in comparison... The mmr system is all over the place so this while high mmr low mmr stuff is meaningless.
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The issue is not the secondary objective but it's strenght... Circle of healing was an issue because it allowed for unlimited 1 person resets at quite the fast speed.
Ftp buckle up was problematic because if it worked there was nothing you could do because they swoop in during your cooldown...
Secondary objective means I as the survivor want to do something meaningful besides gens... Totems for example could become more relevant or maybe prepare something for the team that is not a boom, but a nice little bonus.
As with everything it is about the balance, circle of healing is still OK, it is just not busted...
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Apparently survivor mains cant understand basic math
Lets say you dont play nurse nd you want to have some fun with, idk, sadako
You enter a chase against a healthy survivor. It takes you roughly 1 min to get them down.
1 min chase means 3 min in survivor time wich means e3 gens that can be at 70%.
You want to pick up the downed survivor and hook them (YOUR PRIMARY OBJECTIVE)but someone comes in for the save.
Normally its fine, because that recquires actual planning wich means people getting off of gens to follow the killer around.
But in swf with old ftp bu, its a lose lose situation. You lost 1 min of your time and you now need 30 seconds more, which means 1 min more on gens (2 survs still doing gens). By the time you finally down the survivor again, those 3 gens i talked about just poped. 1 hook for 2 gens left.
Same happened with backround player
Same is happening with sabo.
Getting in the way of the killer main obj shouldnt be this eay. Im fine with the high risk high rewards. But new sabo is just about the reward, as were ftp+bu
When we say we want secondary obj for surv, its a way for them to not insta jump on gens. This or basekit corrupt would help killers imensly but thats another topic.
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I would argue your reasoning is horrible wrong as to why it's complained about.
Switching fast paced matches that are stressful as killer with slower matches but survivor can deny (pick-up /hooks) and frustrate the killer is simply not a good deal for the killer side and ends with a net zero change in terms of unfun.
I have no idea what would really work in combination with slowing gen progress and still give survivor a secondary objective worth their time but you really can't expect hard denying killer progress in tandem is going to make them happy.
It would be the same if tunneling/camping/aso would be straight up made impossible but in tandem gens would take double or triple the time. Wouldn't survivor complain about that?
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I had two groups try it and it's definitely very annoying. Unlucky for them one was when I played Oni and second Twins...
When I see survivors around me trying to Sabo, I just immediately drop the survivor and play game "Who wants to bleed out"...
They can't stop me, if they are on ground.
Fact that you can bodyblock, Sabo and leave is just silly.
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I heard someone say that only with Alex' toolbox you can Sabo and get away without getting downed after taking a hit... I don't know for sure... I guess with addons it is possible on the other toolboxes as well?
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You can definitely do it with Alex and add-ons. It's just pathetic.
I don't think you can do it with other toolboxes, at least not this way. Maybe with resilience? I haven't test this one.
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Doesn't mean its the right opinion obviously
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Fog whisperers have a separate queue with artificially lowered MMR, it can be clearly seen by the kind of opponents Otz gets in his killer games. Just compare them to survivors Tru3 or anyone without the FW badge usually gets, it's like a completely differently world there.
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It should definitely not be possible to fully avoid the trade when you do it as blatant as that... I don't mind it being faster, but I do mind such brainless actions where the killer either has stbfl or he just cannot win in this situation, best thing is to just drop and hope the survivor does not wiggle free from that... Such an unnecessary change... Removed one way for brainless saves by getting rid of background players 200% ms and then introduced this... There is no way they play tested this and did not see that this is problematic.
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Thats what we complain about
You cant trade if someone sabo in front of you, they can get hit>sabo>get away during your recovery time
And funny thing is, i met a survivor yesterday that didnt even knew sabo was buffed and replied "you couldnt down me because im good at the game", actually hillarious
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Well there is this certain point people will reach where their understanding of the game is so limited that they confuse skill with certain limitations the other side has xD
Yeah I mean I agreed with that thing being problematic from the beginning... The only good thing is I might finally get that stupid tome quest done where I need to Sabo a hook while the killer is 10 m away from me xD
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Neither does it mean that Otzdarvas opinion is the right opinion.
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The point is more about the reasons for the opinion, generally speaking. When Otzdarva presents his opinions he usually gives the reasons for why he thinks it is problematic. While just saying person x said this so it is that way, means nothing. However saying "Otzdarva said this because..." is way more valid, because know you are not just repeating an opinion but you use the reasons for that opinion.
Let's make this into a more practical example: "Scott Jund said this change to Sabo speed is stupid because it allows you to take a hit, Sabo the hook and still run away before the killer can recover from his attack cooldown (at least with Alex's toolbox and certain addons maybe with other toolboxes maybe even without addons and so on and so forth) ". And that is why a lot of people think this change was bad.
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A secondary objective has to be something that survivors volunteer to do. So there has to be some kind of benefit to entice them to do it.
Nerfing boons destroyed them, they aren't used hardly at all any more and are generally a waste of time.
Every single thing I mentioned has a benefit to the survivor, and it was enough to pull them off of doing gens. But, as I said, we apparently can't have anything like that.
The only thing killers want is a mandatory objective that forces survivors to take longer doing their objective. And it can't, in any way, affect the killer... That's a key detail for most people.
The only options that fit this at all, are doing more gens, or forcing survivors to stand afk at the start of the match with something like base kit corrupt.
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