Excessive slugging shouldn't be possible. Its time to end this...
I'll never understand what compels someone to play a video game like this. I had a match where the killer decided they didn't want to hook anyone anymore after hooking the first survivor except for 1 other hook which I assume was just used for bait so the killer could do what they really wanted to do. The killer tunneled the first survivor out of the match and then proceeded to take the rest of us on a very long and annoying slug journey. Even getting downed in the basement the killer refused to hook. No matter how many times we were able to pick each other up nothing was able to help us get ahead of this killer's decision to play this way. Finally after what seemed like forever we all got downed and to no surprise the killer decided to bleed everyone out. It wasn't until I was the last person left that they decided to hook me.
I and many others who play this game have been saying for years that this has to stop. We don't need more conversations around it. We don't need more "what if" scenarios to justify this. This kind of behavior from killers is annoying and wrong. This isn't fun and it isn't fair. If a killer leaves you on the ground for too long they should be punished for it. If they leave 2 or more survivors on the ground they should be really punished for it. Ignoring hooking survivors should be in every way detrimental to the killer's ability to win.
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Slugging is easier than playing "normally"
I hope more killers take notice of this and start doing it until BVHR does something to fix it
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there are perks to prevent this you know
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Just another thread demanding killers be punished for doing anything.
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Survivors shouldn't be forced to run the same perks and build forever to deal with something that shouldn't be a problem to begin with. There is no excuse for this. They need to tackle this problem the same way they did camping. There shouldn't even need to be perks in the game to counter this. One of the perks keeps you in an injured and broken state the entire match and the other is dependent on totems. Unbreakable only lets you recover once. The problem is NONE of these perks deter the behavior. If killers knew every time they did it they'd be punished it would stop. You know how many times I've been face camped since the anti camp thing was added? Once and I'm pretty sure they didn't know about the change. Before it face camping was very common.
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Yea this doesn't sound bias at all… You can't look at those screenshots and tell me this should be ignored and nothing done about it.
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This should be ignored and nothing should be done about it.
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what if there was no hooks around? The whole team had on breakdown, boil over? Why do the killer need to be punished for this. The devs said clearly that this is a playstyle anyway.
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I literally ran to the basement and was downed there. This killer downed everyone at least 5 times each and refused to hook us with plenty of hooks everywhere. The basement in the last screenshot IS RIGHT THERE. Stop making excuses for terrible behavior in a video game. People that play like this do not deserve the benefit of any doubt. You know why they do this. Everyone knows why they do this. They do it to be toxic.
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There was literally someone on these forums during the chaos modifier complaining about it because they said their chosen playstyle was to 4 man slug and bleed everyone out because that was “fun” for them, and for some reason they didn’t feel they could play that way in the modifier.
Slugging has its place in normal gameplay for pressure, countering sabo and to try and secure kills. Slugging and bleeding the entire lobby out for “fun” is not legit and just used to grief & ruin the game for people . There does need to be a way to bypass this kind of gameplay while leaving the ability slug in legit situations.
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Thanks for material. I will use this everytime there are complainings about survivors.
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You already do that.
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People playing in bad faith shouldn't be accounted for in game design. If you find something that you can do to annoy people the entire game (because slugging isn't just a small part of it) shouldn't suddenly be changed in such a way that it affects regular people playing the game as well because of a niche situation that you ended up in with a bad actor.
Stuff like that is too broad and has too many implications on killers with it in part of their design, what does oni and the twins get if you shouldn't be slugging more than one survivor at a time
What's the point of them still having a power after downing that first survivor just instantly smite victor and drain all blood oni has.
Idk its too rare of a problem and too difficult of a fix without just ruining some aspects of the game, slugging 100% can counter survivor greed and give the killer a win if they do it without any perks backing them up and removing slugging would just be babyproofing the game for survivors to remove a niche situation.
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For extended scenarios, there may be cases where a good survivor waiting for a flashlight, or no hook, or needed A slug to put pressure that's not a good time to hook. We can not punish these killers because of bleed out killers exist.
It can be fixed by simply a self kill button if slugged for 45sec. And thats it.
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Not to mention all the times killers have to slug against their will, such as hook sabos or Boil Over on bad maps, or survivors fishing for flashlight/pallet saves, or survivors just stubbornly bodyblocking a hook, especially if they're using DS (which the survivor mains say you should counter by slugging, funnily).
Oops, sorry Mr. Killer, you gotta go in the timeout corner because you left someone on the ground longer than 30 seconds because they ran to Badham's basement every time you glimpsed them.
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they did but the solution didn't stick
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Yep, thats unironically why I kind of like the event as killer since most of those things just can't happen with decent timing almost every down is a hook regardless of pallet stun, sabo, bad hook layout, or flashlight, (flashbangs and ds seem to still work but hey theres something)
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They absolutely should be accounted for in game design because they influence how others will play. I'm not saying the moment you get knocked down you should be able to get back up. Oni's power lasts for a short duration. The twins can go straight to you after downing someone with victor. You don't need to leave multiple survivors on the ground for half the match for these killers to be viable. In fact most of the ones I go against never do this. Again, this falls under making excuses for the exception when the exception wouldn't even be affected by a proper anti-slug change.
As I said there is no excuse for this. No killer main will be at a disadvantage for not being able to leave multiple or even an entire team on the ground for full bleed outs. Its not "removing slugging" if you make it impossible to leave multiple survivors on the ground while refusing to hook them for several minutes.
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Giving survivors the option to give up isn't the answer to this. It puts the rest of the team at a huge disadvantage and it rewards the killer for playing in a toxic way. In fact I think if they did this it would make more killers do this just to force survivors to surrender. Killers that leave survivors on the ground for prolonged periods of time should be punished for it, not rewarded. It makes more sense to recover over time in a game like this instead of just die.
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You know the easiest, just sacrifice everyone once everyone is downed
Let's be real, there is no gameplay after that point in practical situations, just finish it
But oh well, we cried so hard for whatever reason, we'd never get any reasonable slugging anti measure, probably just a ridiculous things like basekit UB and blah blah
Did you know much better method to prevent this
Just don't down so fast, literally just that
this "problem" only arise when survivors decided to not bring any good counter perks, can't coordinate nicely, and can't chase decently, it's only a problem when they miraculously failed to do all that
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So how would you balance this then, if 2+ survivors on the ground have 3x crows for more than 1 minute should they be able to pick themselves up then, giving the killer plenty of time and info to find the survivors and hook them, less, more, give me an idea rather than just say X bad needs a fix.
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Can we punish survs who stand at the exit gates wasting my time as well?
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Running to the basement like that is a good reason to slug. People that do that obviously have Wicked (like you do in that screenshot) and want to be hooked down there for an easy self unhook. It's often a better choice to slug them to force someone to come pick them up for the pressure.
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No mither deters this behaviour but because effect of no mither is unlimited unbreakable, the dev put an insane drawback for survivor to not use it. You can still use it but it makes your weaker vs hooking killers.
Survivors shouldn't be forced to run the same perks and build forever to deal with something that shouldn't be a problem to begin with.
Tell that to killers that have been dealing with generator balance problems for years.
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I wouldn't blame the killer at all if your team ran the currently buffed sabo stuff and plays hard hook denial. And I see at least one tool box there so from an outsider pov it's not unreasonable to think that happened.
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I had a match today where someone ran Boil Over and they kept going down and I'd look around and not see any hooks nearby so I'd leave them on the ground, and after the third time of not being hooked they disconnected. Survivors run hook denial stuff and then get salty they don't get hooked. If I'm doing a Tome challenge that has me needing to get off the killer's shoulder, it feels absolutely justified if the killer counters my nonsense by leaving me slugged. That's just how certain perks and playstyles are countered, by slugging.
You know how many times I've been face camped since the anti camp thing was added? Once
Seriously? I still meet lots of face camping killers. I got the hatch yesterday thanks to a killer face camping me. Also had one yesterday who kept face camping 1 survivor and so the other 3 of us did 5 gens uninterrupted and escaped; I felt bad for the survivor who died but she was a hero for sticking it out. I definitely encounter face camping more than I see killers purposefully bleeding survivors out. I'm more likely to be slugged by a non-lethal killer just trying to slow down gens than I am to be slugged maliciously for no discernible reason.
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It's not as rare as you think
But about Oni and Twins, even when they do that (slugging), they gonna hook after that, here, we see a killer who refuse to hook because of reason, and let everyone bleed out
When I play Oni, got my power, and begin to run for downing survivor, I hook them after my power ran out or if I don't think there survivor around the downing one, I'm not gonna let people on the ground and waiting for them to die because I'm frustrated for no reason linked to the game
And since some big streamer play like that (refusing to hook people and just let them bleed out on the ground) … We gonna risk to see a lot more of this1 -
It'll never cease to amaze me how far people will go to try and justify the most toxic fun destroying things people do in this game. The toolbox you see is from someone finding one in a chest. No one brought a toolbox and no one even had sabo perks. I'm pretty sure all of us were solo que and we did nothing to piss this guy off. The fact you'll instantly go to a sabo argument because you see one toolbox in a screenshot is very telling. Have you ever thought that some people just like being toxic for the sake of being toxic?
It is undeniable that the anti camp thing they implemented has strongly deterred face camping. I could post screenshots going back to 2021 of me being face camped a lot. It was way more common back then than it is now. It was so bad my SWF team had to make full builds just to deal with this situation almost every time we played. I know how bad a problem it was in the game. I was one of the people constantly talking about it here. Same with tunneling. Both of these things were long time problems that survivors largely felt was bad for the game and they eventually did something about it. Game devs need to be reminded of things that players feel should be changed. Not having this communication leads to people eventually not liking the game.
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The killer was slugging long before I ran into the basement. There was no reason for me to self unhook or even keep playing at this point. It was just the same thing over and over again. I was hoping the killer would hook me so it would be over. I fell down the stairs after vaulting the window there and the killer was right behind me. It was clear to me at this point this killer had no intention of hooking anyone else. Again, there is no excuse for someone to play the game this way. The intent is clear when killers do this.
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There's two gens left. Dwight or you could have deliverance. Considering that you're in a four man bubba probably didn't want to get sabo'd or take the risk that you could come back. I'm certain the other side of this has an interesting story to tell.
And realistically speaking, how often does this happen? I've been bled out less then a dozen times and I've been playing since blights release. Let survivors bleed out faster if they want. Quit trying to punish the no good bad killers for trying to win the game.
Edit: I just noticed you have wicked and are trying to bait him into hooking you in the basement. Why are you complaining?
Post edited by EQWashu on5 -
It was bad but it should not be the only one
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In my opinion, killers do not intentionally slug for fun, they used it as a validate strategy to slowdown or secure their kills. Those that does do slug alot and don't even care about hooking or getting kills by Moro or 3rd stage hook kills, are mostly likely doing it to despite you or to intentionally grief. It is either toxicity survivors fault for Agitation the killer enough to make him not play the game anymore fun and waste your time this way; or griefer killers that finds satisfying in doing this.
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Survivors have the best perks in the game, Gens have never been faster and continue to get faster, and you have safety nets on safety nets constantly forgiving you for mistakes. Slugging is a punishment for making mistakes because odds are yall are too close to each other so the killer slugs you. Why do people expect killers to follow a specific flow chart? I am gonna slug you if theres others around, otherwise in most situations slugging is putting you at a disadvantage. It's a skill issue. Stop constantly creating sitatuions where its best for them to slug you.
Stop running around in front of the killer when hes trying to pick someone up or when they are about to down someone.
Stop unhooking RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE KILLER.
STAY hidden if ur gonna go for a save.Seriously survivors want to be able to not think and make plays with 0 consequences.
Post edited by EQWashu on10 -
We were not in a SWF. I have been playing solo for about 2 years now. Also this killer started doing this right after the first survivor was eliminated and he tunneled them out of the match. There were 3 gens left at this point. Leaving survivors on the ground this many times and for this long is not "trying to win the game." There was NO reason why he should have left us on the ground as many times as he did especially at the end there when all 3 of us were downed RIGHT BY THE BASEMENT ENTRANCE. The only thing you are doing is making excuses for toxic killers. You're not being reasonable or rational about this. You're looking at the screenshots and situation with a bias and trying to defend the killer with "what if" scenarios that you know do not excuse someone doing this. The other side of the story is literally this player wanted to be a jerk for the sake of being a jerk.
More excuses for toxic behavior. This match went on for a very long time. All of us were downed several times all over the map and often times very far from each other. The killer also had knock out and all of us had to run around the map getting each other up because we didn't know where we were downed at most of the time. Refusing to hook survivors is not a safety net. This killer could have ended the match so many times but refused to because they wanted to be toxic. How can you say survivors don't want to be able to think in a situation like this? We had to constantly run around a very big map with a killer using knock out and pick each other up. We were also not SWF so we had no communication. Despite this killer being as toxic as they could be we still tried to turn things around.
The only thing people are doing in defense of this is defending toxic behavior that is in no way good for this game.
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Game devs need to be reminded of things that players feel should be changed. Not having this communication leads to people eventually not liking the game.
Personally, I don't have a problem with slugging. I have a problem with the devs for making things where slugging is the only counter, like Boil Over. It's goddamn tiring playing killer and not being able to hook because Switch gets absolutely battered by the normal wiggle mechanic even with Iron Grasp. I just go stand at an exit gate on Switch if someone has Boil Over, because if I went through the hell of getting a down and then I can't even get a hook afterwards screw it, I'm done. Do gens and leave, thanks. Bleeding out as survivor is easy and even kind of relaxing because it takes no work from me, all I have to do is prevent teammates from picking me up so they can't prolong it; dealing with hook-denial stuff on Switch is frustrating as hell, I goddamn hate playing killer on Switch and I wish BHVR would fix their game so that I'm not required to waste perk slots on Unrelenting and Iron Grasp even though they provide minimal-at-best help.
I do miss endurance on Buckle Up. My friend always ran Buckle Up to deal with the occasional sluggers we got, and it was so good for that. New Buckle Up is useless, now we just run the lute and meme ourselves to death.
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Please remember to keep this discussion civil, respectful, and constructive to conversation. Thank you.
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May be one day they make a British killer with perk "Not my cup of tea". That if survivors tbag twice, the exit locked for 15sec for them.
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Doesn't even have to be tbagging. Half the time i don't even bother going near the gates, or if i see they're inside i go bust walls.
More just the point like slugging, its just there to waste time.
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While toxic four man slugs DO happen, this just isn't what happened here looking at the screenshots.
You were a SWF. You had wiggle-unhook-sabo builds. You had toolboxes. You had Wicked. He only had three hooks at 2 gens left. You all played in a way this Bubba probably felt like he had no choice. Bubba's an instant downer and so, he did what Bubbas do in a pinch - snowball for the 4 man out at two gens left, which would be the correct play here. He didn't want to risk it. You have 3 gens done, you all clearly got to play some of the game. What did you think he was going to do in order to snowball, let you all out for free?
You know if my SWF pushed gens hard and baited stuff like Wicked like this against a Bubba and he did this, I wouldn't even be upset. I'd understand. Because I know why he did it - he felt he had no other choice.
I agree toxic slugging, real toxic slugging, should not happen. But this was not that. This was just a snowball that worked and you seem to be mad about it.
Ironically, tweaking the remote hooking tool from Masquerade to make it an antigrief feature would go a long way to avoiding scenarios like these AND deal with builds like the ones you guys brought, everyone would benefit…
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This is a lie. I was not in a SWF. I have been playing solo since all of my friends quit a long time ago. You already went into this under an assumption that isn't true. We did not have "wiggle-unhook-sabo builds" and I'll prove it:
Again, the only toolbox that was on the map was the one that was found by someone else in a chest. No one brought a toolbox into the match. He had 3 hooks at 2 gens left because he literally stopped hooking everyone after the first survivor was eliminated. The ONLY reason this player did this was to be toxic. I'm so glad I started taking screenshots when I get matches like this because I know there will be people who will assume everything wrong just to stick to their bias. You would do well not to reply to me in posts like this, because I always keep receipts.
Also killers don't "win" when they eliminate survivors through slugging. From what I understand they lose points towards their emblems for refusing to hook survivors so winning wasn't the intent of this player. They didn't care to get points or rank up otherwise we would've been hooked.
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I'm really curious where you got the "wiggle-unhook-sabo build" assumption from in the screenshots since the teammates' perks aren't shown until the end. All you saw was one toolbox and then you assume all that?
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Most killers admit they have to slug to win and what they want is a easy 4K and no chance for the Hatch to spawn. Giving players the ability to give up after reaching full progress heal would be the best option.
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It comes from killer mains who have an extreme bias against survivor mains when we make suggestions that could influence changes in their gameplay. It doesn't matter what is said or shown. It doesn't matter how well you describe the situation or what actually happened. They already have their mind made up as to why the survivor main is wrong or lying. The interesting thing about the post you quoted was that everything said there was a complete lie and said without any supporting evidence whatsoever. That is why I like taking screenshots. I honestly might even start streaming my matches just so the whole picture can be seen. Even still, nothing convinces people that think this way.
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