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The Inevitable Nerfing of Weave Attunement
Comments
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If a Killer sacrificing half of their perks for aura reading that can be almost completely negated is too much for you, maybe you should stick to playing against the Killer bot instead of online.
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You aren't seeing the bigger picture here. First of all, you are drastically understating how powerful the information is on this perk. "only info"? So if all players could at all time see each other's aura then that wouldn't be a problem huh? Information is extremely powerful.
But the bigger picture is that this perk makes Franklin's a meta perk and that isn't a healthy place for the game to be in. If there is a really high chance in any given game that a survivor knows they are going to lose their items or that the killer has infinite wallhacks on half the map then that will increase the chances of that survivor just not wanting to play survivor anymore. It's not fun knowing that all those items you spent so much time and effort getting on the bloodweb are not only not worth bringing into a match but will be an active detriment to you. It is not good for the longevity of the game.
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It's not like Franklins is a bad perk.
Bring this combo against a lobby full of medkits and it'll get you a lot of value.
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I think that Twins also have an add-on like that.
Anyway, the perk is fine, imo.
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Yes, perks are supposed to give you value. Especially if you have to sacrifice half of your slots instead of bringing stronger stuff. Thats how it works.
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Legion and Twins can do it too
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You conveniently ignore the part where I mention what needs to happen for that information to even come into play. That's like if I said, that Sprint Burst was somehow overpowered because you move faster than the killer. If we ignore the downside and the restrictions this perk has, that is true. But with the downsides and restrictions it's completely fine.
That's why it's important to keep in mind, that this information (something that does not do anything by itself) has some heavy restrictions and comes at the cost of 2 perks. In the chase you activate it, Weave Attunement won't do anything because that survivor will use their speed boost after the hit to make distance and get away. After that they can go back and pick up the item again, for the cost of 30 seconds oblivious. This an inconvenience but not really strong.
When a survivor loses their item, that means they won't want to play the game anymore? That's definitely a take. One that I could simply turn around and make the same point by stating that killers don't want to play against items, if they can't counter them. Weird that both sides still play then. Also, whenever something is introduced, buffed, nerfed or changed in any way there will be players that are unhappy about that and won't like it. So the game becomes less fun for them. Do they stop playing? No. Because it turns out, that most of it is not as bad as they thought in the first place.
Pretending that getting an item takes effort is pretty ridiculous. That might have worked a few years back but not now. I stopped levelling my Ace about the time when they reworked prestige to level different characters and unlock their perks and I still have items left on him. Granted, I don't use a commodious toolbox with BNP every game and I also don't use medkits with double iris every chance I get. But if you are so dependent on that stuff, maybe this would actually help you learn how to play the game instead of crutching on your loadout.
Pretending that items become a detriment just for the existence of Weave Attunement + Franklin's Demise is pretty wild. That is 50% of the killer's build. So your payoff at worst is that the killer doesn't use something better, which is already pretty good. This makes them vulnerable in other areas.
You know what's also bad for the longevity of the game? Creating metas that exist of only 4-6 perks. Would you like to go back to slowdown stacked on slowdown and slowdown combined with slowdown? I much prefer a wide variety of perks on both sides. But you don't achieve that by introducing a perk that is interesting and fun to use, if not all that strong but then nerfing it to the point where it does nothing, which would be necessary to removee the inconveniences you mentioned. In this case it would push 2 perks out of the meta again. Not to mention that we just nerfed some of the most popular killer perks because they were overused. The irony is priceless.
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Or inversely you're just going against bad survivors. Good players just move the items to the side of the map and now you're out 2 perk slots.
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Play against it and you shall see. I think if you only play one side your opinion on the matter is basically invalid, since you don't know how the other side works. Thank you.
And may I add how the devs don't play their game where balancing usually feels misguided, and in some case actually pointless?
And while I'm at it let me reverse the question: Do you wish to play against 4 hardcore genrushers every single game who loop you for eternity?
It's not that nerf requests are requested more and more just for the heck of it. It's most of the time a balance or mechanic issue that isn't addressed properly in the first place or the decision they made on the matter was from another time where it worked, but they didn't revert it or addressed it since (looking at ds & tunneling where DS was kept 3 seconds when tunneling and camping became insanely relevant just to say one, or COH and the entirety of healing getting nerfed [12 sec —> 16 sec heals & COH 100% eff. SC basically, to 75%, later 50% then only heal speed boosting, and also gutting medkits basically making them weak [you can't get 2 heals without perks or with luck + add-ons]).
The only part that bugs me about this is about someone dropping the item by their own decision. Franklin's doesn't work on it, so why does WA do tho? Also most lobbies usually run 4 items (but 2 as a minimum I've seen recently) now, the perk has a 12 meter radius, gives 30 second oblivious on pickup (if I'm not mistaken). Let's compare it to it's counterpart basically which is Wiretap basically.
Wiretap has a 14 meter range, 120 second duration, gives a minimal info on undetectable killers (if they kick the associated generator) and has a prerequesite of half a generator being complete before applying it to any generator that has even a sliver of progression. The perk is deactivated if it's timer is up, or the killer damages the generator.
Let's compare this to WA.
The aura reading zone is very big (by area, the radius doesn't sound terrible until you do the math) it can last the whole game, it can be countered only 3 ways: Bring a perk against it (Distortion, Shadow step or Off the Record) where neither of them helps too much in the situation, Bring Object of Obsession to constantly have a staring contest against each other, or put items in a useless corner.
In my opinion it's slightly overtuned because of the fact that it has 2 effects that are pretty valuable. Counteractable even if only slightly, but still. I would reduce it's radius by 2 or 4 meters at max, and chip a bit away from the oblivious effect, or something has to be done with Franklin's. But this needs to be addressed too sooner or later just like the 3-gen hostage meta was. Or the Bully Squads, or the "Ruin single handedly stalling games for a decade" time was addressed.
They are not useless, as in fact as a person who prefers survivor I know all perks effects, and let me tell you a good 15-20% of the perks is only that bad that they need some stitching, others are as you mentioned, are more situational, however all of them can be used to gather value one way or another. (Some perks of the stiching category: Premonition, This is Not Happening, Borrowed Time [not entirely useless just an enhance I think more than a perk now], Up the Ante [Too situational, and an abysmal effect that is Luck], Chest perks all together for looting gets less and less relevant besides tomes usually, or you open chests without them [Plunderer's, Ace in the Hole, Apprasial mainly], etc.). On killer side there are a couple of these too. The perks wouldn't be bad, they are just old and need a little fine tuning, or synergies built into the perks themselves.
You may never know when flashbang squads or residual manifest gangs start being meta :D . And just as a side note Lightborne is not neccessary either, because most of the times the blind will barely matter, or you look into a wall anyways.
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no they don't want slowdown stacked builds or weave so they want every perk knocked out of meta and cry until slowdown perks are nerfed further. it's a win win for them, slowdown perks will still be the best option but as their weaker versions.
sorry but i really can't understand how people can complain about a perk that has a clear and easy counter and literally tells killer has it. shame? anyone?
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Play with it and you shall see. I think if you only play one side your opinion on the matter is basically invalid, since you don't know how the other side works. Thank you.
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Nerf requests are becoming ridiculous. Recently we had the complaints about Mage Hand, when all you had to do was enter in a private game with a friend to see for yourself that you can throw again the pallet immediately after after the Mage Hand lifted it. How is that broken?
Load the game, drop your item and an icon will instantly tell you if the killer has Weave Attunement. If this is the case, pick up your item and take it to a corner or a dead zone where it won't bother your team. When the game is over, if you are confident enough, go back and pick it up before crossing the exit gate. That's all the counter you need to counter this "oppressive" perk.
Post edited by EQWashu on7 -
not really, no.
Most perks on either side are not worth bringing
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Depends on your standards then.
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Perks that give you meaningful and consistent value.
I could win with any perk set-up on Killer, that doesn't mean those perks are good
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Then those are your standards. Mine are different.
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I am the best twins main out there. I use my add on "spinning top" to apply weave attunement. It is awesome. Good. Fun. Viable. I do NOT believe it needs nerfed. A perk like this needed in dbd. It isn't slowdown. It's info n for most they need to run another perk slot w franklins to really even git value. You are tripping. You must LIKE 4 gen slowdown builds. You don't know power. Do come watch my channel. I now use weave attunement in my main build now n yes because it's good n twins actually have a easier way of applying w out using up another perk slot. So what if it's tough? ######### do you ppl always Wana nerf killers in the killer* game? How about how EASY it is to run distortion? Gives ya Info that the killer is running. Solution? Pick the item up n yes take it elsewhere. Ya made the choice to bring in items even tho they can be abused n def unfair, ya dont care. You only care that smacking off items for a STATIONARY aura read is too much? Survivors HAVE INFO IMMEDIATELY. Honestly at this point if ya ain't Surviviving any games you are simply not talented at the game. If you see a twins with weave....you better run...to a corner cause vics pounce is smacking that item off n get info....works well for a deerstalker 2.0....don't hate....get better
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Yes. And since you get a lot of value out of this perk combo against medkits, that means it's a good perk combo against medkits. That's how it works.
Isn't it fun to be rude and condescending to people for no reason?
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If you think this comment was rude and condescending, you didn't read my comments to opposite of smart opinions.
Just because he didn't agree with you, it doesn't mean he is rude. He just wrote how it works and he is right.
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Where did Steve picture go? Since when you become Daddy Myers?
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You listed ample counterplay. Do not bring an item, do not deplete an item, discard items in a safe place, bring distortion or bring object of obsession. That's 5 counters right there. If survivors choose not to counter the perk, that's a skill issue, not a perk issue.
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Oh hey, finally, survivors got what they've been asking for for years. A secondary objective. Good on ya BHVR, you're finally listening to the fans and giving everyone a bunch of stuff that's been requested for ages.
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Because all the formerly best perks got dumpstered in the last patch and the new chapter brought something the is fun and unique that people are trying out. When Dracula comes out, you'll likely see it used less as people scramble to make something of the new perks.
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There is nothing constructive about taking things away. That is inherently destructive. If you wanted constructive, it would be better to talk about what things we can add to the game to bring up the quality of perk variety instead of making sure there are only 2-3 must have perks. Attacking what actually works is in no way constructive when you leave everything that doesn't work in ruins.
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Counterplay is OoO.
I played a match with it where two of the survivors had it, and suddenly Weave Attunement was more of a liability than a benefit.
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And they can and should be moved by survivors. Pretty insane.
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And this is why Weave Attunement is necessary. You get free items, you should pay the price for them.
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I love your energy. Same. I'll add to that I'll be maining Nurse with it.
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It's not really that busted if you know it's in play.
Move the item away somewhere the killer won't get information so easily once you know they have it, and they're down 2 perks.
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He did agree with me, though.
The build gives value against medkits.
We're not actually disagreeing.
The thing is he's being disingenuous in his reply.
He said: "If a Killer sacrificing half of their perks for aura reading that can be almost completely negated"
So I pointed out that he was kind of downplaying the fact Franklins is a pretty decent perk and the build is very strong in general against medkits.And then instead of acknowledging that or giving a counter argument, he tried to play it off like he didn't just say that the build is useless.
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No, if survivors actually counter the Weave attunement, then Franklin's is useless. It doesn't do anything, if survivors drop their items themselves.
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Which is exactly my problem with Franklins/Weave.
Not that it's overpowered, that they are obnoxious, badly designed perks which grow in strength based on how little communication and game experience survivors have and should likely be changed for that reason alone. Anything which disproportionately preys on less skilled or solo queue survivors is not a good design since killer doesn't really need any extra help against those people.
Franklins kind of needs to stay the way it is because it's consuming the design space for a perk which forces survivors to drop their items, but in my opinion it's a lot like Knock Out in that it's an unhealthy, mean-spirited perk at its core and they should try to avoid making other perks which synergize with it.
That being said, even against a SWF with good communication, bringing this combo causes slowdown in the form of forcing them to run to the edges of the map to dispose of their items and it still does the job of denying medkits and flashlights or just making them extremely inconvenient and risky to use.
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Sure, but I don't believe that's a reason for nerf. Because it's going to be simply useless, if you nerf it in any way.
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I disagree. There is a world in which Weave is useful but not overpowered. If the perk stated that "when an item is dropped you could see the aura of survivors within 12m radius for the next 2 minutes" for example, I think it would still be quite useful but it wouldn't lead to the dominate situations we find ourselves in now where one or two items are providing disgusting amounts of information for the entire match. If someone else has a better suggestion then I'd like to hear it.
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I make no claims to being a great player. But I can recognize a balance issue when I see it. I'm not even going to make the argument that this is necessarily an issue at the highest levels of MMR or competitive DBD. What I am saying is that for a large portion of the player base it is an issue. It isn't healthy for the game for the best strategy to be "don't bring items, don't take items from chests, and if you see an item on the ground drag it to the corner of the map and drop it off".
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People constantly say stuff along the lines of "Distortion has almost no counter" or "You need a full aura build to counter Distortion!" (which is nonsense, Gearhead alone absolutely vaporizes Distortion and any single aura perk is enough if used by a stealth Killer) but the moment a perk shows up that isn't overpowered yet is a hard-counter to Distortion then people lose their mind and call for nerfs even though several meta perks were just severely nerfed, some of them into uselessness, even though gen slowdown was recently given a hard-limit which is easily reachable if using certain perks or facing good enough Survivors (or smart Survivors that harass a specific gen and pre-run to prompt the Killer to waste their regression events).
Like, I get the hate Franklin's get, it's obnoxious even though it's not exactly meta. What Weave Attunement did was make it more than a one-time use perk since dropped items continue to give value after the initial M1, which makes an incredibly obnoxious but fairly weak perk actually viable.
Quite frankly it's pretty obvious Weave Attunement is getting gutted at some point, too many people are calling for it's nerf/removal, my guess is that only empty items will give aura which will shatter the synergy between the perk and all add-ons (and other perks) that can force Survivors to drop items.
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At this stage, I can't tell if this is sarcasm or real, and this troubles me.
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Just stop already. The survivor salt is getting annoying as hell. It's a niche 2 perk combo. And i'll be the people angriest about this are flashlight users who wanted to bully the killer
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This is throwing me off so hard, too.
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Okay, but does that mean Background player flashbang can get nerfed too then?
How about prove thyself and friendly competition?
What about hyperfocus and Stake out?
Pain res and Pop have been a prominent combo since Pain res was released, there are much worse combos to have and the constant spam of items is nice to have something to go against it. I've faced it as survivor but I've run Object for years, all it does is help me. My only complaint about the perk is more killers need to run it so I can have more wall hacks with object
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yeah I agree with you but people like that will pull out the “I play at high mmr” card to ignore what you said. He kind of already did that
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To all survivors: Let us all use Object of Obsession, take an item with us, drop it next to the Gen we work on and get a free 6% speed boost.
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They should just do it to where it only provides aura reading if the dropped items have any charges left in them. In this way, if it's paired with Franklin's, it'll only show surv's auras while the dropped item is depleting charges and once their gone, WA won't work for that item. However, WA can provide more value in the cases where surv's don't fully use up the charges on an item and then leave it on the ground or if they swap one item out for another they find in a chest, etc.
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I've had this stance on info perks for years. The amount of value they provide is not game breaking at all, because that would suggest that the killer simply seeing the survivor means that they down the survivor. No. That's just to see where they are, and has no impact on looping. This is really just a bunch of complaining from people who can't loop, because a confident looper does not care if the killer can see them all game or not. They play well regardless.
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Maybe I just need to use it myself, but I really don't see how the perk could be that strong. You get 30 seconds of Oblivious, and aura reading for the killer which you can counter. Use up your toolbox/medkit, or drop it in a safe spot for later use, just like you would against Franklin's. And really, survivors don't need items to do well in the match. It may mess up someone's instaheal or toolbox build, but again you don't need those things to win. Just because you can't handle losing an item doesn't mean that everyone else can't. Items are to be used, not collected.
And oftentimes I see so many people not bringing any items into the match. Why? To deny yourself a free advantage? You can't complain about losing all the time... and then say that you're gonna chest search for an item.
But I don't think Weave Attunement is gonna make or break anyone's game. It's aura reading for killer, and that always gets bombarded with emotional/casual tales of how the killer using their eyes is OP, but I really don't think this is worth a nerf. Even with many perk ideas exhausted over the years, I'm sure something much stronger is just around the corner. If not? You wanted a killer meta switch-up, so you got it. That is, if you actually believe this perk is OP.
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Honestly, I don't think this perk's overpowered at all and doesn't really need a nerf, but I will say, it's incredibly unfun and annoying so I wouldn't really be opposed to it getting nerfed either way, especially because I hate Franklin's. Kind of the same reason I want Distortion nerfed honestly as I consider perks whose sole purpose is hard countering perks/items that aren't even that good and primarily used for fun unhealthy.
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Yes, i also think this perk or this combo is really a bit too strong.
Just played against some killers who have it and boy… no chance - it is like they constantly see you.
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Wild concept and I'm not even trolling but…. instead of slamming gens maybe pick up the item that is clearly on the ground and move it to a corner. Teams are doing it and…. it works.
Clearly they are trying to break the hive minded mentality of injecting a different way of approaching the game. The only maps that weave attunement even remotely becomes broken is on midwich and game which you're getting information on multiple floors at that point. Bigger maps like swamp and borgo you get even less info to the point that it's almost pointless.
TLDR it's not broken embrace a new mentality and just move the items if you see them on the ground in high value information areas.3 -
survivors when there is fun perk for them : 😃
survivors when there is fun perk for killer : 😡2 -
This perk doesn't need a nerf.
What it does need is to show Survs the aura of the dropped item in white. That's it. That is ALL it needs.
It's not that strong a perk, let Killers have things guys. Would you really rather have MORE gen control? What is with the complaining about aura read these days? Why do we have to cry "nerf" for every single perk Killers have? Not every single Killer is Blight and Nurse.
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