With the ever increasing number of perks in the game…is it time to start making perk classes?
Disclaimer: I am a chaos shuffle simp. I want it back. It was the most fun I’d had on DBD in ages and I fully acknowledge that has something to do with my current thinking. Now with that out of the way….
Are there now simply too many perks in this game for the current way both sides make there builds to be allowed to continue? Whenever someone complains about a perk, it feels like most counter arguments are “this perk on its own isn’t too bad. But when you pair it with this other perk or this item it becomes OP. “. The problem now though is the game has so many perks in all categories (gen rushing and slowdown being the worst offenders) that it is way too easy to make OP combinations.
I understand that build freedom is important. But chaos shuffle proved that if both sides are dealt a similar hand the game can be much more enjoyable and less sweaty (at least in my experience). I just simply can’t believe when I see certain perks being stacked that this is what the devs want players to be doing.
I will say I do think this is more of a killer issue. I see far more triple/quad slowdown builds than I do quad gen rush builds. But of course the difficulty is that survivors share 16 perks, meaning a SWF can coordinate a plan around builds whereas solo’s can’t. Furthermore the issue in comparing both sides, is the strongest survivor perks, exhaustion perks, don’t stack the way slowdown perks do- four individual exhaustion perks can be annoying to face but it’s nothing compared to a build of Pop, Pain Res, Corrupt and something else. Similarly a killer running four aura reading may at first seem more chill as there’s no slowdown, but a cracked nurse knowing your location every few seconds because Floods, Nowhere to Hide, BBQ and Chilli and Gear-head are all in play just seems like overkill.
There’s talk about the “class system” for 2 v 8 and I’m very curious to see what that brings. But is it time for something like this to happen in the main game mode?
Or just please bring back chaos shuffle, I beg you.
Comments
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I see far more triple/quad slowdown builds than I do quad gen rush builds.
Part of that problem is that there's a big disconnect between perceived gen speeds, and actual gen speeds. There's also the fact that Killer is far weaker in the early game than they are in the mid-game.
Fact of the matter is, there's a lot of perks for killer that are simply too niche, map-dependent, or simply bad. As an example, Forced Hesitation is a very niche perk. While its effect is strong on paper, you're mainly getting value out of the perk against flashlight squads. The same applies to Starstruck, or Mad Grit, but against sabo squads.
As another example, Cruel Limits is very map-dependent and requires you to be in chase with a survivor when a generator pops.
Rapid Brutality is an example of a perk that's just bad. In exchange for no longer being able to gain Bloodlust, you get 5% haste for 10 seconds after hitting a survivor with a basic attack.
It's no coincidence that the best perks for killer are ones that give you Aura Reading (Lethal, BBQ, Nurses, etc.), can be used mid-chase (Bamboozle, Enduring, Spirit Fury, Superior Anatomy, etc), or hinder the Survivors progress on gens (Pain Res, Ruin, Dead Man's Switch, Grim Embrace, etc.). If a perk doesn't fall into one of these categories, it's either niche, map-dependent, or bad.
On the survivor side, it's also not a coincidence that the best perks are ones that can be used mid-chase to grant you distance (Sprint Burst, Lithe, Dead Hard, Background Player), second-chance perks (DS, Off The Record), work passively in the background (WoO, Distortion), or perks that speed up gen progression.
As an example of a bad perk for survivors, Lucky Star. This is just a pointless perk. You get Off The Record without the endurance, you can see survivors auras and the aura of the closest generator for 10 seconds after exiting a locker. Bond already exists, and generator locations come with knowledge. It's basically multiple perks rolled into one, but due to the activation condition and the fact that it only lasts 10 seconds, there's just never any reason to use the perk.
A class system would work under 2v8, but not under the main game mode. Say you split perks up into classes. You've got the Gen Jockey, The Healer, the Runner, and then a fourth class that I can't think of right now. You ignore the runner and focus on eliminating one of the other three knowing they're guaranteed to not have exhaustion perks.
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I feel like the idea wasn't to limit each person into being a "class" but rather the perks. Assigning each perk slot to only fit a certain class of perks so you won't have people stacking 1 type of perk and would instead encourage a balanced build.
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This is exactly it. I understand that people wouldn’t want the freedom to make any build they like and discover different perk synergies to go away. But stacking 3/4 of the same type of perk? I don’t believe this is healthy or what the intention of the perk system actually is.
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Make sure you do the latest survey. One of the questions I got was about Chaos Shuffle and i made sure to select I wanted it to be permanent.
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One idea I had a while back was to scrap the current "tiers" system (let's face it, they are pointless to exist) and instead do a system where you can pick two low tier perks, one middle tier perk, and one high tier perk. Some of the values would need to be changed, but it simply means you can have one perk "super charged" with max stats, one perk with lesser stats but still strong, and two basic level perks. This way, you could mix and match all you want, but if someone DID want to stack all one kind of perk, they wouldn't all be game-changing ridiculousness.
For example, if you want your exit strategy to be solid, you could high tier lithe and mid tier quick and quite, but that distortion you'd popping onto your build would then only have room to be a low tier perk. Conversely, maybe you want to go stealthy, so you'd high tier distortion, but that means your lithe is going to be less powerful.
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Most functional builds revolve around utilizing perks that synergize with each other. Most of those perks fall into a single category based on their purpose. Making each perk slot into a class, or a category, is going to heavily restrict builds. As an example, We'll Make It and Botany Knowledge. Both these perks are altruistic in nature, so under a class system you just couldn't run them together.
There are a lot of perks in DBD, but it's important to understand that not all of those perks are good, and if we want to change people stacking the strongest perks then we need to address why people are stacking those perks to begin with.
Our top 4 perks are WoO, Lithe, Resilience, Adrenaline. Lithe is an excellent perk because it can be used at almost any tile for a 150% speed boost. Resilience gives you increased action speeds, and faster vault speeds, but only while injured. This means that you'll want to spend most of the trial injured, and you'll need to be good at looping. This is where WoO synergizes with Resilience since you'll be able to tell what pallets are still up, and where. Adrenaline only activates after the final gen has been done, but it isn't hard to see the value in a free health state, plus a 150% speed boost.
WoO will always be used, because it provides information on what your available resources are. If we want Resilience to fall off, self care needs to be viable on its own. Outside of nerfing Adrenaline and Lithe, there's little you can do to change why people pick these perks.
On the killer side, it's pretty easy to explain why they stack regression perks. Maps often give no thought to killers without mobility, and Lethal is basically necessary to get a headstart on survivors. For an M1 killer, spawning on the opposite end of Blood Lodge to the Survivors means you're likely to have lost 3 gens by time you get your first hook. It's just too hard to defend gens as an M1 killer on big maps like that. RPD is another offender in that regard.
Making maps smaller, but having a few strong tiles on the outskirts with 50-50 loops/pallets in the middle is far more desirable than small, but pallet city (Like Gideon). It also partially fixes the issue of stacking regression perks. The other part of the issue is the lack of natural slowdown. When self-care is meta, gens go slower because survivors waste time healing instead of focusing entirely on gens.
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I think we're too far in to create a perk class system at this point. Also I've tried theorycrafting exactly this, and most perks simply don't fit into neat categories besides the big meta ones.
I think the best route at this point, is to design perks (particularly strong aura/regression/chase perks) in a way that they're mutually exclusive or impart diminishing returns.
Just like survivors have exhaustion to prevent doubling up on chase perks.
The regression event limit on gens already does this to a degree for instant regression perks. A similar mechanism could exist for say gen blocking, when a blocked gen cannot be affected by other blocks, that would prevent the Grim Embrace-Dead Mans Switch combo.
Aura perks I don't think are in a place yet where such a restriction is necessary, and is more a case of balancing individual overperforming perks.
And killer chase perks are definitely not there as they're mostly unique and highly situational.
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Ask yourself why there are always quad slowdowns because quad slowdown will always be the best option. What else is there to use? Super niche perks that work once every 400 matches vs perks that'll always get value Wow I can use totem perks only for them to spawn out in the open literally next to gens or I can use Hubris that's only good with 2 other perks or I can use FP and the survivors will never group up making it worthless I think you see the point
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I will say I do think this is more of a killer issue. I see far more triple/quad slowdown builds than I do quad-gen rush builds.
It's because they are the best perks on killer. There is not much reason to take anything else unless you want to specifically play around with a perk like Dissolution. The reason to use aura perks is to cut the boring part out.
You basically bring lots of gen defense if you want to win and a lot of killers just want to win.0 -
Typically killers have powers that aid them in chase or survivor tracking. Hence why the blind spot for most killers is slowdown, and they can afford to go all in on slowdown perksn because the rest of the kit is provided for in their power/add ons.
There are exceptions, like Pinhead, Pig, etc. who have innate slowdown in their powern so they can afford to diversify their perks.
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I can't even take this seriously after "Rapid Brutality is just bad," followed by nothing by the Cliffnotes version of its description. My brother in Christ, Rapid Brutality is one of the easiest chase perks to get value from, and if you can't, it's definitely because you were too busy mentally writing this paper at the time you were attempting to use it.
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I don't use Rapid Brutality, because it's a bad perk. The distance you gain from that 5% haste is neglible. Realistically, you're getting 7 seconds of haste and going from a 110% killer to a 115% killer, or 115% to 120% for that duration.
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I use Rapid Brutality myself.
It's not nearly as good as you'd think. Far more for bragging rights not using bloodlust or paired with something like Singularity and Soma Family Photo to have a decent post-hit teleport catchup.
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Even with killers that provide a side objective (pig/cenobite/anything with boxes) or more map pressure it's still worth more to bring slowdown.
They just are the best perks.
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