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Perks that rely on combos, are they kind of bad for the game? (Weave and Franklins for relevance)
I don’t like the weave/franklins combo and thinks it’s busted but I’m not here to discuss those specifically because it’s clear that no one can agree on if it’s busted or not. Rather want to discuss perks that rely on combos in general (weave being most relevant example)
SO,
I agree with the fact the weave is effectively useless without franklins and I don’t think perks should only be able to be used if combined with others. Perks should be able to stand alone on their own (even if not that strong) vs to only be useful when combined. Can we at least agree on that? If not, I’m really curious as of why you might think a perk should only be good or to the least, decent while combined with another instead of being a little useful by itself
WHY I FEEL THIS WAY (if you’re curious otherwise ignore it) :
I hate perks that are useless without being in a combo, but I also really hate perks that are super strong against solo players with lack of game knowledge. I say this, because for example, I have a buddy of mine who has 200 hours played and still didn’t even know what exhaustion actually did until a week ago. I realize that not knowing what exhaustion actually is at that point is kind of dumb, but if players aren’t aware of THAT by 200 hours played than how can you expect them to know how to truly counter something like weave/franklins (again, just the most relevant example). Game knowledge is key to dbd and it should be more accessible/comprehensive, but since it’s not, in the meantime I think combos shouldn’t absolutely destroy those players because they didn’t study the game as if it was studying for the bar (become a lawyer). Perks should be able to stand alone but also not be VERY VERY strong when in combination with others. That’s a difficult balance to try to create but one that I think is necessary for all perks designed for specific builds in mind
again, not here to discuss anything except the concept of only certain perks being useful in combinations specifically having no use on their own. So what do you guys think?
P.S. please dont make this another heated debate specifically about weave and franklins
Comments
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It's an interesting conundrum that's difficult to balance. Personally I don't feel Weave + Franklins is busted only because it gives the survivor feedback when it's active and it has plenty of counterplay (put item in corner, move to different loop, don't bring items), but this is hardly the first time that we've had perks that were mediocre or good by themselves, but busted in tandem. Eruption/CoB/Overcharge immediately springs to mind. So does Buckle Up/FTP. Or old CoH/old Botany plus medkit.
It's really hard to avoid perks having synergy with each other, because there's so many perks and that number keeps increasing. This kind of thing is inevitable. But I wish they did a better job breaking up perks that pair problematically - making their effects not stack with each other or building in safeguards to cap the maximum possible effect - than taking the nerf hammer to the perks themselves and trashing them. Looking at you, gen regression perks.
In this case, if it really has to be nerfed, I think lessening the range of Weave would be fine, while giving it a secondary effect that makes it more worthwhile on its own (ideally, increasing the number of times items will be forcibly dropped - because that's Weave Attunement's real problem, it won't activate on its own without something else to facilitate it. If it did this, it wouldn't need Franklin's as badly as it does now.)
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I totally agree. I would rather them implement better safe guards with combos than bringing out the nerf hammer. However, that doesn’t necessarily answer my first part of the question being should perks only viable when in combos than on their own. Again, I agree with everyone saying that weave for example is useless by itself
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No, and perks definitely shouldn't be useless on their own, but I don't think DBD tries to design them that way. They're just obligated to churn out 3 perks for each side every update and don't have enough ideas, so we get loads of weak and overtuned-for-caution perks that nobody would actually run. And then sometimes those perks turn out to have a strong use with something else and people do run them. Like… Weave Attunement on its own is bad and you wouldn't run it without anything else to support it. But I'd say the same for all of Vecna's perks; Dark Arrogance is a worse Bamboozle and you wouldn't run it unless you were going full-bore vault speed build stacking it with Bamboozle and Superior Anatomy, and Languid Touch is unreliable compared to something like Mindbreaker or even Blood Echo (which most killers can't use, but certain ones can quite effectively.)
So like… no, perks shouldn't be useless on their own, but very technically I would rather have perks that are useless on their own but pair in cool ways with other perks, than perks that are just flat out useless. Of which we have plenty.
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