Vecna feels really frustrating to play sometimes
Vecna is pretty serviceable against the average Survivor, but as soon as the Survivors start getting sort of decent, his kit starts to fall apart in a really annoying way. I'm going to break down my issues with him in this post, ability by ability.
Mage Hand
Mage Hand is… actually a good power. It's strong when used well. However, my issue with this ability lies with it's associated Magic Item, the Interloper gear. It completely and absolutely nullifies any potential distance you can get with it due to the Haste it provides. You are throwing if you use Mage Hand against a Survivor with Interloper gear without dispelling them, and that feels really bad. The only way you can get any use out of it with the accompanying gear is to cancel a vault, and that's it.
All you have to do is fish through a chest, grab some Interloper gear, and the ability may as well not exist. Now that the pallet pick up speed has been made more fair, I really hope this gets looked into because it is a disparity from the rest of the Magic Items in how hard it counters the ability.
Outside of those complaints, I think it would be cool if Mage Hand had some more utility about it outside of a pure chase tool. It should allow you to manipulate your environment more. I think being able to break breakable walls with it would be a nice touch. Maybe even being able to pick up downed Survivors you have line of sight on from afar would fit as well. He already uses a mini mage hand to carry Survivors anyway.
I'd suggest having the ability to damage generators with it, but I'm worried that'd clash with his chase too much. I don't want to accidentally break a gen when I want to hold a pallet.
Flight of the Damned
This is the worst offender out of the bunch. It is really bad at it's job(s) in many ways.
First, actually getting hits with it is out of the question in most cases. It is completely countered by crouching to a ridiculous degree. Due to the cooldown of it, you can't even use it to cut off Survivors from a window or pallet effectively. You can summon it, they crouch it, and they medium vault it in front of you, all before you can M1.
So what about zoning? Isn't it good at that? Not really. Sure, if a Survivor spends the entire duration of the skeleton's lifetime crouching, you gain distance on them. However, if they time the crouch well and only duck it for a short period of time, you get no distance at all.
The only way you can consistently get hits with it at all is by spawning it directly on top of them. Even then, it's still dodgeable with anticipation, and feels kind of like trying to land a Scrapped Tape Doctor shock at times.
It just has so many ways to counter it. It is by far the most annoying part of his power.
I really don't think they should be crouchable. The hitboxes are actually relatively small, and are pretty easy to weave between, even without crouching. It'd also make Nightwatch Gear more worth taking, as it's kind of unnecessary with the extremely loud sound cue telling you to crouch immediately.
Dispelling Sphere
Dispelling Sphere does a pretty ok job. I think giving Glass Eye's effects to the basekit would be a nice touch. It's still a little slow.
What I would really like to see is for Dispelling Sphere to get more utility to open up more interesting gameplay. It's a decent info tool, but I think it could use some more flair.
Maybe it could show the progression of the Generators it passes over, similar to addons like Fuming Mix Tape? Maybe it could refund a small amount of spell cooldown for every Survivor hit? Maybe it could inflict a short amount of Oblivious? I don't know.
Fly
Fly is good as a catchup tool, but feels a tad short in duration. Maybe it could get a 0.5-1s duration increase.
I don't like how far you go through a window or pallet either, it leaves room for a Survivor to instantly vault back. You can also pass over crouching Survivors, which lets them use that to counter the hitbox blocking. You can also Pallet Stun a flying Vecna, which doesn't really make all that much sense.
Ideally, it'd be cool if you could pass over Windows and Pallets and continue Flying, I appreciate that it could get out of hand in terms of it's strength in a loop, but I'm unsure if that'd be the case considering the increased cooldown when coming down from Fly.
That's my feedback. It just feels like if you know about his kit and how it works, then the Vile Book of Darkness is reduced to a bag of party tricks sometimes.
Comments
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Dispelling Sphere disables magic items for a duration. You can combat Interloper by Dispelling the survivor you are chasing.
Also you can force hits with Flight of the Damned by using elevation as well. It doesn't float above the ground so if you cast it on a lower elevation than the survivor, they can't crouch to avoid it.
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I know. I do that. It just shouldn't require me to have two abilities off of cooldown to get any meaningful use out of one.
I'm also aware of the elevation changes. That's super map dependent, though. It doesn't really change the issues it has.
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Ive been obsessed with Vecna since he came out. Were it not for Elden Ring DLC id be playing him more.
Fly having a longer duration would honestly be awesome. But I like how far you go through a pallet or window. The skill expression is in knowing how to stop it just before you reach the window so that you just barely go through. And I actually like going over crouching survivors, cuz then they try to crouch or move backwards, you cancel fly and its honestly been a free hit for me every time.
Mage hand is a weird one. I think the only thing I feel should change with it is that when you lift a pallet, it should hold on to it for a second or two. I think it's dumb that survivors can literally just stand under the pallet you lifted and drop it on you immediately before you can swing. Also it should have shorter range. There's nothing worse than having a hit on a survivor and miss it cuz mage hand got summoned on a pallet 30 feet away from you.
There's two things I think maybe should happen with Flight of the Damned, imo. It should spawn the skeletons in 0.4 seconds instead of 0.5. Currently its just waaaaay too reactable. 0.4 is still reactable but it's harder. And the skellies hitbox should linger just like a quarter of a second behind them. Like if they had a trail or something. That way survivors actually would have to crouch for a tiny bit longer, and you'd be able to zone better just a liiittle bit better. But its counterplay is fine.
Dispelling sphere is fine as is. Maybe it shouldn't slow you down. I made a post a while ago saying I think it'd be sick if remote hooking dispelled survivors was just a base kit thing for Vecna. Cuz I think remote hooks just fit his theme so well. I stand by this XD even knowing how unrealistic it is.0 -
nope. no change for intereloper gear. his kit is balanced around items existing. this is why it made no sense that they nerfed mage hand or anything about Vecna. the counter-play was already there for survivor on silver platter.
0.5 second flying increased duration is an add-on.
Flight of the damned in my opinion was designed around spawning it on the survivor. i am not sure why it needed greater audio/nerfs.
Dispeling sphere works as intended. I personally think it should expose the survivor because it is little underwhelming.
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So you basically want them to make Vecna uncounterable on loops and oppressive to go against? Something like current Billy?
Mage Hand shouldn't be guaranteed hit every time, there's relatively small chance of getting Interloper gear in the chest and even then you can play around (haste doesn't always guarantee you gonna make another loop) and you can use sphere to disable the gear.
Experienced Vecna's already learned how to use Flight of the Damned in a chase you can use it immediately in some loops and survivor have a little chance to react also you can use it when survivors goes above in some places to hit them. Also there's strong combo of red and green addons which almost always gets you a hit with flight of the damned. So no he doesn't need changes, or at least not this changes, you need to learn him better, right now he's in a good balance place.1 -
Current Billy isn't uncounterable, though? Even without Interloper Gear, Mage Hand is not a guaranteed hit. It's just far too strong for a Magic Item, and it stands out above the rest significantly.
Also, the Iri Book and Horn makes it so only 3 skeletons spawn. They're comically easy to dodge. The only people that's going to hit are people who don't know about the addon. Also, having to dedicate 2 addon slots to make a Killer's power consistent is not a good thing.
I know the tech for Vecna. I'm very aware of it, and I use it. It just doesn't sit right with me that that is the only way you're going to get a hit against a Survivor who knows what his power does. They don't even have to be good, they just have to know you can crouch the skeletons.
All of the other Magic Items give you a greater awareness of the ability itself, but they don't directly buff you. They just make it easier to see it coming. Interloper is an outlier in this regard, and I don't think it should be as it is. It'd be like if you could find an item that makes you speed up every time Doctor shocked you.
I do also know Raven Feather exists. That doesn't change my point about Fly.
Exposed on the sphere would be far too much.
I'm not sure if making it faster would solve the issues with it, honestly. I don't know. Having a lingering trail could be nice, but I think it'd create scenarios where dodgy hits occur often, like Huntress for example. I'd really much rather have them make the Skeletons actually able to hit people somewhat consistently.
Remote Hooking is kind of jank as it is in the event, I'm not sure if they'd be able to smooth it out enough for a killer power. You generally can't use killer powers while you're carrying someone as well, so I think a Remote Pickup would fit better in the game's design rules.
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I think you underestimate the Power of Flight of the Damned. I have been getting good value with it.
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Well imo he is overbuffed and oppressive to go against but countarable, sometimes... Almost always yes , it is a guaranteed hit in most of the loops. Mage hand also stands out about the rest of the spells significantly, and?
3 are more than enough, do you need 4? lol Well if you don't know how to use them properly, they are. Yes it is, it's a strong thing and making it need 2 addons is compeletely fine, if you don't know how to use it effectively doesn't mean it's "not strong".
Like I said sometimes it's hard to reacts and sometimes you can use it when survs a little above of a normal ground level. And what if you weren't able to dodge them with crouch? Vecna just would've got free hits every single time so it would be OP. Pls think about this from the other prospective before you post something.
Yes, cuz other Vecna's spells aren't OP and not as Strong as Mage Hand so that's fair, you not gonna find Interloper 100% of the times, it's like a little chance. And to all of it you can still disable it so I call it a skill issue.0 -
Literally every single game I've had against Vecna I've been able to get Interloper gear without much issue. You're making it out like it's some small chance to get them, but it really isn't.
If you weren't able to dodge FotD by crouching, you'd still be able to weave in between the Skeletons. This would be even easier with Nightwatch gear. The hitboxes are surprisingly small and they spread out pretty far. Maybe it'd need some small counternerfs in return, but I really don't like how trivial it is to shrug off FotD in a lot of scenarios.
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yeah i think that major problem with his other items. they're too weak. they should play bigger role in outplaying his abilities. Fly can arguably get a small buff to reduce recovery by 0.75 seconds but his fly item should also maybe grant a little bit of haste.
I would suggest like 30 second exposed on dispelling sphere. It is currently very ineffective in the chase and contributes very little to his kit in most games compare to other 3 spells. there is lack of fear element to it. you can practically put this spell on 0 cooldown right now.
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I mean, the sphere isn't meant to be a direct chase tool. It's meant to be for info and disabling magic items. I just think it'd be neat if it had a bit more utility.
I don't think the other Magic Items need buffs at all, though.
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Still think sphere spell is too weak. 30 second of exposed is what i'd suggest.
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Maybe, I don't know. The instahit tech is good and very satisfying to pull off, but that's really the only suitable application FotD has.
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