Can we get some clarity on what gen-rushing is?
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I think we may simply have to agree to disagree. I do think there are firm definitions even if you have freedom in game. Tunneling has a very firm definition. Slugging has a firm definition. Face camping has a firm definition. CJ tech is a specific tech. Etc. all this to say I believe gen rushing should also have a definition, especially since it is most often used in a negative way. I think terms are important in any context whether it be gaming, real life, rules, laws, etc.
If we can’t define it, we can’t understand it, and if we can’t understand it, we can’t understand eachother.
Again, I’m not trying to convince you of anything, but based on just how different both of us think, I’m not sure there would ever be a good stopping point. Thank you for the conversation though! I appreciate it.
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It's hard to define because there are so few things for survivors to do. If you're not unhooking, healing or in chase what else is there to do? Chests are paltry blood points and, even with a full chest seeker load out, still don't give great items. Boons are mildly useful but not anything to write home about. Unless your perks are focused on getting benefits from cleansing totems cleansing is usually a waste of time. So what do you do besides gens? Look at the map you've seen hundreds of times?
Besides, as you rise in MMR your tactics are forced to become more tactical and optimal if you want to keep winning. That's why Killers that care about winning are forced to tunnel and do tactics that are not fun for Survivors. With an MMR system the opportunity to try out new things and meme perks diminish unless you're okay with taking more losses. Unfortunately, too many people put their ego into video game performance so they're usually not okay with trying something that may be more fun but less optimal and more likely to create losses.
So, at what time does it become gen rushing and what point is it just simply optimal to play like that?
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At all times meaning without lapse. As in if a Killer scares a Survivor off of a gen, somewhere another gen is always being done. At all times, under any condition there is a gen being repaired. There is never a time not even once in the match (except for the beginning) where all four survivors are doing something other than at least one of them being on a gen.
Idk does that help clarify it a little bit? Like the match never has a moment where no generators are being worked on (except at the beginning), not even for like 5 seconds.
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That sounds like normal gameplay if you want a chance to escape though at mid MMR and above. It's also why I strategically slug a lot as Killer (my downs are normally double my amount of hooks) as if one person is unhooking and one person is picking up a slug gen progress is stopped for a short time while I set back gen progress. (And my chase skills and meta strategy don't atrophy)
If you can't keep at least one survivor on gens at all times it'll probably be a 4K. That's why I think it's so hard to define; it's practically a requirement at mid MMR and above to keep a hand on gens at all times to stand a good chance of a 4E (unless MMR has completely dropped the ball and mismatched a Killer with new chase skills against experienced survivors or a tunneling and proxy camping Killer has just reached an MMR where their reliance on tunneling and camping stunted their chase skills enough they're now at the point where all the Survivors are better at chase than the Killer).
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I mean I don’t think there’s a term for when a killer gets multiple hooks or downs quickly.Snowball.
I've seen it used in comp commentary and discussing killer strategies. An example would be: 'the killer is keeping the survivors injured and trying to set up a snowball' or 'Legions strength comes from his ability to snowball.'
This is why I feel a strong definition of what gen-rushing is is important, because it carries negative connotations. If a term is going to be used negatively, it's important to know what it truly means.So you're getting into the difference between denotations and connotations. Rarely do words/phrases have a strict denotation that clarifies both something being bad and a clear line about what it is and isn't. Definitions are bland and technical, its how we use the words that give them the connotation and feeling.
Lexicology is kind of a rabbit hole for discussions.
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Yeah this makes a lot of sense. I think I am a low mmr Killer so yeah, it tracks. Also when I play Survivor I feel that I personally play sweaty if I make sure there are no gen “lapses” I guess is how I want to say it.
But anyways, that’s my personal definition lol
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IMHO Genrushing just means you brought a build and items that prioritizes doing gens really really really fast.
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Through some replies to some other comments I definitely see the rabbit hole you're describing. The discussion went from, "This is what I think it means" to "It doesn't need a definition" to "It's in the perception of the victim". And in my head I'm like, but we've already done this before. Tunneling is the killer equivalent of gen rushing, but yet there is a very clear understanding of what tunneling is and what it isn't. It is difficult for me to understand why one has the ability to be defined and the other doesn't.
Someone before said I was thinking like a lawyer instead of a person playing a game haha. But it's just so strange for me to adopt a concept in which a term that is used to essentially accuse other people of doing something unfun/unfair is allowed to be decided based on whoever may feel that way no matter the circumstances.
Like if an officer pulled me over for breaking a law, and when I asked him what the law is and why he had the right to pull me over he explains that his personal definition of the law meant I did something illegal, so he can pull me over for it. I'm breaking the law in his perspective.
I do tend to overthink and my mind can complicate things, but this concept feels incredibly strange to me and frankly, only solidifies my thoughts that people just throw gen-rushing out anytime they're unhappy with the state of the game, and shouldn't be taken too seriously. But it's just a silly game at the end of the day so, I really should just accept that the majority of the community doesn't feel the need to take it seriously then I shouldn't either. It's like it's not even a real term at this point lol.
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It is difficult for me to understand why one has the ability to be defined and the other doesn't.I think I've already covered that I don't think tunneling has as clear an agreed definition as you do, but I'll agree it is clearer, but that's helped by having an easy to define standard. If the killer just looks at one survivor and no others until that survivor is eliminated, tunneling. The problem for gen rush definitions is that while there are lots of other ways a killer can play, if you aren't doing gens as a survivor there's really not much else to do. Even if you brought boons/inner healing, that's going to be a slight diversion from gens.
So you have a very muddy grey area on where survivors are gen rushing.
Like if an officer pulled me over for breaking a law, and when I asked him what the law is and why he had the right to pull me over he explains that his personal definition of the law meant I did something illegal, so he can pull me over for it. I'm breaking the law inhisperspective.This is kind of true though. So we have laws that have clear cut definitions, such as speeding, but also more subjective definitions, such as reckless driving. When does driving go from just being bad to reckless? (in my state defined as the "willful or wanton disregard of the safety of persons or property"). Exact lines are a judgement call. That's the way many laws work where its up to a police officer, prosecutor, judge, and jury all to take steps to try and draw a line on where a law is defined.
I really should just accept that the majority of the community doesn't feel the need to take it seriously then I shouldn't either. It's like it's not even a real term at this point lol.It's worth pointing out that the community isn't really a unified group. Even if we all agreed here to a definition of what is and isn't gen rushing, would the reddit community, steam, twitter, tik tok, non-English speaking groups, etc. have the same definition? Words and phrases naturally drift in terms of what they mean (the fact that DbD keeps changing doesn't help) as each group uses it in slightly different ways.
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3 survivors on gens for entire game. All 5 generators were done in less than 6 minutes. maybe something like 5:30-7 minutes. Gen-rushing isn't inherently bad but if a killer has like 6 hooks or say a large amount of hooks and the gen still flew in 6 minutes, it feels bad for killer because the killer got "punished" for spreading hooks and their pressure was useless/ineffective.
Gen-rushing should be possible only when the killer plays poorly… like gets 2 hooks or something and does poor chases.
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Like camping, slugging and tunneling then?
Noted.
On a more serious note, its bringing a build specifically tailored to get the gens with as minimun interaction with the killer as possible and 4 toolboxes to try and finish the game in 6 minutes.
Which, like slugging, its very boring and uninteractive for the other party.
Dont get me wrong. All strategies are valid strategies, but we should try to play and let play, the game was meant for interacting with the other side. Its why im against camping or slugging….. or gen rushing.
Still, i get that is a valid strategy.
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I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. Honestly out of all replies, I think yours makes me understand the most, even if we don't necessarily agree. I believe gen-rushing, when the term was created, originially did have an easy to define standard, similar to how tunneling is, as you said, is easier to define. When a 4man used to come in with BNP, and their builds quite literally deemed, "gen-rush build", it was and was intended to be a gen-rush match. I think since those circumstances have changed from when that term was originally defined, now the meaning has become "detatched" somewhat. To put it very simply, I think gen-rushing used to have a clear definition, and what is gen-rushing now is not gen-rushing in regards to what the term originally meant. Now it's used as a sort've catch all, which I don't agree with personally.
To clarify, I still think it's possible to gen rush even though certain things have changed, like BNP, extended gen times, prove nerf etc. But I think the qualitifactions for what is conisdered gen-rushing, at least in my opinion, should be at least related or have in common with what the original definition of gen-rushing used to mean. I understand this is just a personal opinion, therefore it doesn't hold any weight, but I do believe it's based off of what the term originally meant as opposed to simply- I'm unsure how to say this without sounding disrespectful even though its' not my intent, but- as opposed to simply giving it a meaning that fits whatever specific circumstance I am in at that current point in time.
When it comes to your comment about the community, yes, you're absolutley right. It's very divided on practically all fronts. I will absolutely acknowledge that my perception is only what I've seen on youtube, reddit, and this forum, but I can say honestly that when it comes to tunneling, despite the differences in platforms and things, I've more often seen a more unified stance on it, and what constitutes as tunneling itself. And so it does still feel so strange that there is, in my opinion based off everythign I've been able to digest, the acceptance of the term tunneling and the requirements that make it so.
In any case, thank you so much for the replies!! It's been a pleasure! :)
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Perfect definition most can agree with! 😂🤣
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Gen rushing = Doing your objective efficiently (repairing generators efficiently)
Tunneling = Doing your objective efficiently (killing survivors efficientily)
There you go, explained it. Nothing wrong with either btw, that's how the game is supposed to be played.
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