Corrupt intervention should be base kit by now
There is no argument against this. Corrupt intervention at this point is a necessary evil and should be base kit on all killers at this time. There is too much for this not to be the next update for Killers.
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Survivor should just lose the ability to move while we're at it. And they should just scream constantly with crows spawning immediately around their heads until the killer finally gets to them and does them the generous service of killing them, which should also be instant and require no work on the killers part at all.
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Stop being dramatic. My goodness. Gen speeds are broken, play some killer for a change.
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Your reasoning? I run Corrupt on certain killers (Trapper, Hag, Plague), but for the most part I don't feel it's necessary to win games or have strong starts. If gen speeds are a problem, nerf toolboxes - that's something that won't hurt lower level survivors disproportionately, which basekit Corrupt would.
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i played 5 games of killer today and won 4 of them without any slowdown so idk what to tell you buddy
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^^^This
Just saying "killers need it" isn't valid reasoning to make such a drastic change to the game. Yes, it can be hard to keep gens in check early game, that doesn't mean survivors should have such a massive limit put on the ability to do their objective. There are numerous other fixes to any potential gen issues that don't involve this perk being made Basekit, as while that might sound fine on Trapper, it sounds asinine on Nurse, Billy, Blight, etc.
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I do play killer, friend. Probably 30% of the time, and more lately because soloq survivor is actually broken. Gen speeds are not nearly as bad as people pretend. Just stop expecting an easy 4k and maybe be willing to play the game as designed. There's a weird expectation that if any gens get done, survivor should be nerfed and killer should be buffed. I'm just hoping people get realistic about how the game is supposed to work.
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Crazy how Killers survived prior to this year.
Weird how they still survived all the way back in 2018.
Gen speeds are completely fine. The only time they aren't is if a team brings four toolboxes and dedicates to that.
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Gens already don't get done in my solo queue games. I guarantee Corrupt basekit would increase kill rates leading to big buffs for survivors to balance it out.
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So, uh, other than "I said so" what's the reasoning here?
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Current gen times are 90 seconds. Thats be fine in itself if this game was not a MMR matchmaking system and had a server list with open lobbies to hop in and out of to do pub matches. Im sure you are aware of this factor but once you reach top rank on Killer your experience in the high mmr meta is the gen rush 4 man comps. Now I am not against this or complaining specifically about this but lets do math. If say we look at the gen times chart for the amount of survivors on a gen without any perks or toolboxes we can see that just one extra person takes it from 90 seconds to 52.94 with a -15% efficiency penalty. However. Lets add in toolboxes and gen perks that remoce the penalty entirely. Just 1 survivor with gen perks and a toolbox and another without reduces the time to nearly 29 seconds. Put 3 survivors on it with at least 1 toolbox and 1 player with full party gen perks and you are looking at an easy 20 second gen. We are talking a drastic reduction in time. Your average Killer run times against competent players at high MMR is looking around 45 to 60 seconds if you do not get a lucky spotting and/or the comp team makes a mistake early on(which can 100% be corrected mid to late game).
if you run 1 player and down his within 60-80 seconds no matter how much pressure you apply. Without corrupt intervention on and without other gen slowdown perks for kicking or blocking you easily are looking at 2 gens minimum done within that timeframe(without deadlock which is slowly working its way to possible base kit status if we do not get corrupt intervention).
at this current time the only solution for high end MMR is to tunnel hard the first man out within 100 seconds minimum or face a 4 gen done deal unless you run a 4 perk gen block/slowdown build. Slugging comes second to this massive glaring problem. I havent even touched upon the 3 gen base kit kick blocks now that stop you from defending 3 gens permanently…
therefore, make Corrupt Intervention base kit just like Borrowed Time is now and the blocking of 3 gen meta us now. There is zero excuse not to do this and would completely make killers not hyper focused on tunneling out the first man they see as often as it is now. Killers are in a state of 1 strategy mode, tunneling. With slugging being the meme strat. This needs to change. It starts with gen speed and works it way down.
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It sounds like toolboxes and gen perks are the problem rather than gen speeds.
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I personally never demanded anything. And my post wasn't seething, just facetious.
My issue is that there are plenty of ways to counter swift gens. Simply throwing discordance on gives you immediate info on multiple people on a gen, which seems to be what you're upset about. Apply pressure as needed per the notification. Chase and pressure balance are a necessity to be skillful killer.
The bigger issue is that people seem to want to play DBD like a comp speed trial game, and that's not what it is. That's never what is was, and I hope it never turns into that. Nobody ever said matches had to be short due to the killer taking everyone out as fast as possible. Speed is not the objective. It's ok that matches take a while if it gets your actual objective accomplished, and by applying appropriate pressure to "gen-rushing" teams, you're countering the problem described. Removing the ability for survivors to do the only thing they can do in the early game is the exact opposite of how you balance a game.8 -
I mean, I get this and understand this data in general, but from where I'm standing, the problem is that the solution you want to apply for high level problems applies to all levels of the game.
A fair portion of the userbase, if not most of them, will agree the game becomes survivor sided at high MMR and against comms. But the opposite is true at low levels, where survivors are more inefficient, don't know how to run tiles, waste resources, etc. The killer can already compete very well under those conditions - and data backs that up, because kill rates are higher at low MMR (iirc it was 38% escape rate as a low MMR solo vs 48% high MMR SWF?)
I have no qualms about giving the killer free corrupt when they load in against a 4stack with 4 BNPs, hyperfocus, overzealous, prove thyself, stake out, etc, but giving the killer free corrupt when they're up against 4 confused potatoes or even 4 mid-tier solos is not fair. And Corrupt is extra nasty in this regard because baby teammates are already bad at doing gens. When they can't find a gen at the start of the game, they're prone to wandering aimlessly and open chests or just hide. Solo queue is hard enough as it is when bad teammates are making minimal contributions, much less no contributions.
So while I do think gen speeds can be a problem, I think the way to address this is to either nerf the tools true genrushing SWF have, toolboxes and their perks and maybe even increasing inefficiency penalty… or, because all of those things on their own are quite weak (except BNP/commodious), to bridge the gap between solos and SWF to reduce their relative information advantage and then buff killers/nerf gens uniformly. But just buffing killers because things are bad at high MMR doesn't work - you shift the problem somewhere else. We saw this in patch 6.1 and it was utterly miserable to play before they rebalanced things and nerfed some of the meta killer perks at the time.
I suppose another idea would be to modify gen speeds based on MMR and number of grouped survivors, but that kind of system would require extensive testing.
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Last stats we had all the killers were sacrificing survs around or better than their intended target rate. All of them.
Gen times only are a problem in low level play (survs aren't doing them fast enough) and high level play (where everything tends to be busted anyway) and both are small portions of the overall playerbase.
For the vast majority of the trials the matchmaking is mostly the determining factor. More than tunneling, more than slugging etc. And much more than gen times.
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When a survivor get hooked then the other automatically get hooked . I like this buff already.
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I doubt it grants any significant increase in kill rates, the biggest one who hits by this is the one who is not that competent to begin with
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Those who aren't competent bring down those who are. You can't do 5 gens on your own. Corrupt is a decent early slowdown in a game where survivors have very little comeback options once things start to snowball, and it makes maps alot smaller temporarily and brings survivors to the killer. And making it basekit would give this to every killer at every level on every map, so you will definitely see a kill rate increase. If you anticipate it wouldn't make a difference then why would the demand for it to be basekit be there? It's one of the most common requests I see from killers and I doubt it's because they want to prolong a losing game. I think people are being disingenuous if they don't recognize how valuable extra time is to the killer and how bad it for survivors in this game.
As someone said above - it might make high MMR palatable, but it'd be the death knell of low MMR. And regardless of what the general playerbase thinks of low MMR, they are the most important bracket to retain for the health and longevity of the game.
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There's a youtuber who is able to consistently get high winstreaks on several killers. Even holds multiple winstreaks world records. Why should killers have corrupt basekit when this player is able to achieve a high winrate despite not having corrupt as basekit?
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Its the toolboxes, not the perks. A Brown toolbox works better than Provethyself. Most survivors' Gen perks require to do something else but Gen.
I think toolboxes now should just give skill check only. And double the charges, so you relied on your great skill checks to boost the progress.
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There is zero excuse not to do this and would completely make killers not hyper focused on tunneling out the first man they see as often as it is now
There is literally nothing stopping a killer from tunneling with or without corrupt right now. And we have tons of evidence (gen kick and 3 gen metas for a year) that even given infinite match duration, killers will still tunnel. In fact, the evidence says people will tunnel *more*, which is exactly what happened when BHVR allowed killers to determine the length of the match.
If you think that slowing down the early game for the killer, for free no less, is going to reduce tunneling you have no idea what you're talking about at this point.
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Can we please stop with the false line of thinking that buffing Gen defense will reduce tunneling/camping. It won’t. It will incentivize it because now people who want to tunnel/camp have more time to do so.
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This is a pretty awesome idea.
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Nice tribalism….
Guess some things never change.
Corrupt is a perk that COULD be basekit in a version of the game, where tunneling is punished heavier, hoookspreading is rewarded and Blight / Nurse are reworked to be weaker.
Why is this perk not basekit right now? Because ti would make some killers go way above what a survivor team can handle.
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Play good for a change, then you see that Gen Speeds are not that bad.
Your only argument is "I want it basekit, because I want it basekit". And thats it. Adding one of the most powerful Slowdown-Perks to the Basekit, just that it frees up space for another Slowdown-Perk is really not the way to go. That your second best idea is to make Deadlock Basekit is also strange…
Your "argument" that it makes Killers less dependant on Tunneling is also bad, because even if this would be the case, this does not mean that Killers would tunnel less. We had one of the strongest Slowdown-Metas of all time with the Eruption-Meta and still Killers tunneled, even if you basically had to try to lose the game with Eruption/CoB/Overcharge at this time.
And last but not least, comparing it with the Basekit-Endurance is also not really the right thing. It was just a really bad concept that you had to rely on another person bringing a Perk that you get unhooked safely.
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For alot of killers its mandatory, but top tier killers they dont need it.
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Your hilarious.
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I mean, even as a survivor main I would not entirely be against this. Early game is pretty crucial for killer and slowing it down even a small bit can be a massive help.
I would rather this than any more literal regression perks like Jolt or Pain Res, as I find getting a gen I am working on constantly regressed absolutely infuriating at times and I would ultimately like to see far less of this rage inducing mechanic. Doing a tedious task like gen repairs over and over on the same gen is not my idea of fun
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The thing about that is Borrowed Time being basekit was necessary, and without it made tunneling extremely easy, most of the time the survivor wouldn't last 5 seconds before being downed again if the unhooker didn't have it.
Generator speeds are not the issue, but toolboxes are, making generator speeds longer will only encourage more generator perks from the survivors, and will make matches feel more boring than ever.
Nobody is coping, if you can't simply allow other people to express how they feel besides the ones that back up your ridiculous take, then you are very pathetic, it's called a forum for a reason, not everyone will agree, get over it.
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Corrupt is not even nessesary on majority of the killer roster, with the exception of killers with a slow early game (Trapper, Hag, Myers, maybe Plague, Nemesis and Oni)
This only helps killer players who are way too bad and can't get a down in 2 minutes of the match starting.
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Unfortunately they would still bring those perks + free base kit corrupt.
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Ok how is corrupt intervention even supposed to be used? I have this weird belief that it's supposed to be used to assist you in actually setting up a build. But very often I only see it in builds with gen slowdown. And within those builds the killer loses it within 60 seconds anyway. Any time I personally use it, I'm using it to set to up a build on totality. I'm using it to hit and run and set up something that I'm planning to snowball later, how is everyone else using it?
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Whenever someone says "killers/survivors need x" what they're really saying is "I have a serious crutch and refuse to overcome it"
I think corrupt intervention is actually fairly negative because it forces the survivors to leave the fringe gens and typically results in them focusing a more pivotal gen to prevent a solid 3gen situation, resulting in a harder late game for the killer.
I don't have it on a single killer, and only use lethal for the bonus to aura duration.
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How much more crutches do you average skill level killer players need to be satisfied?
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I don't agree on making Corrupt basekit, but it would be interesting having to collect parts before being able to repair. With the compensation of reducing gen speeds I guess. No one likes holding a single button for such a long time. I made a thread about how to reduce unfair and too powerful combos, it never got a reply but I'd appreciate if you would share your thoughts.
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Corrupt is useful on killers who have to set up before they start chasing survivors - Trapper and Hag with their traps (who want to focus on one part of the map anyway), Singularity with pods, Demo with portals (though Demo can play just fine placing them as he goes, he's not so reliant.) Plague can also use it very nicely because basekit her infection doesn't last long enough to keep all gens tagged, but if she reduces the number of active gens from 7 to 4, she can keep them all infected and get some information on survivor locations on top of that.
In other cases, though, Corrupt makes the survivors relocate from their starting position. Might get you some good timewaste on an indoor map with variable gen spawns like RPD or Lery's, and newbies will short out completely, but for the most part it gets you 15 seconds before survivors are on gens again. It decreases the amount of space the killer has to patrol and technically makes survivors easier to find, but sometimes the whole survivor team will respond to it by just hiding for the first 120 seconds of the game and doing bones or boons on the dead side of the map.
I'd like to see this as a new game mode and experiment from there, but on its own there's a few things it has to consider - it further advantages SWF over solo (say you're carrying a part and you see another part, you can tell your team that if you're on comms, otherwise nobody knows anything, and you might get chased before you can go back and get that second part.) The other thing I'm not sure about is how chases and especially tunneling affect this - if I'm carrying a vital part for a gen and the killer won't get off me, this potentially presents a problem to the team.
It would also make survivors harder to find in general, since they're spending more time searching in unpredictable parts of the map as opposed to actually on the gens. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is very different to the current gameplay loop.
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Personally, I'm just tired of the suggestion of fixing issues being "make X perk basekit".
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I won(/win) the vast majority of my games both before and after the gens speeds swapped from 80s to 90s. It literally is a 'skill dif git gud' problem for Killer barring maybe Trapper and Myers for most people. Tunneling causes weak Killers to think they have skill, then once they reach top MMR where they are just as strong as the weak link, they lose since they lost their crutch.
In general I agree, but I think at least the Green and Purple genspeed toolboxes should still provide a bonus. Maybe a static -50%, that way the normal 50% becomes skillchecks only (without add-ons), but the Green and Purple become 25% and 50% respectively.
Also Hyperfocus should probably not work with Toolboxes and be the Autodidact of gens. Although if we did a toolbox mixup like this it might be overkill to do both.
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literally.
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Yeah and that would be my only real objection, I would like to see some compensation if this did happen
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I see this suggestion crop up a lot, which has given me a lot of time to think about it. I've never liked it, and I think I can elucidate why a bit better these days. As many of my explanations do, I'm fully aware, it comes down to two broad reasons. We'll go over the more simple one first just to get it out of the way, then move on to the one I have more to say about afterwards.
Reason 1: It doesn't apply equally across all killers.
While this might seem like a sensible and straightforward buff for killers like Freddy, Legion, or Clown, it'd be obvious overkill for killers like Nurse, Blight, or even lesser-but-still-top-tier killers like Plague or Wesker. This wouldn't be a simple buff to implement, it'd be a radical overhaul of many different things at once, which already makes it not all that appealing from anyone's perspective, really.
There's also the small element of the way it pushes you to play - or, rather, the way it pushes you not to play. Trapper, Hag, Myers, and Ghostface all have their most thematically evocative method of playing (setting up extensively, and stalking unaware survivors, respectively) made either much much harder, or outright impossible, with Corrupt in play. That's not to say it can't still be a good idea from a strategic standpoint to bring the perk, but I think players should still have the choice to play those killers that way.
Reason 2: It's aiming to fix a misunderstood problem.
The typical reason given for why Corrupt Intervention as a basekit addition would be a good idea revolves around early gen speed being too fast, or gen speeds in general being a problem. To be blunt, a huge percentage of that is just an unironic skill issue. Gen speeds aren't, currently, a huge problem.
…Except for specific issues.
When there actually is an issue with gen speeds, especially early on, it stems almost entirely from two sources: Toolboxes, and survivors being all spread out individually when they spawn. It would be more impactful and healthy for the game to address those two sources themselves, rather than playing whack-a-mole with symptoms and also getting collateral damage in the form of every single other match that anyone ever plays, lol.
In short: Macro gameplay is poorly understood and needs some real effort put into community guides sometime, and separately, the only problems with gen speeds can be fixed directly instead of slapping on a band-aid with Corrupt Intervention.
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gen speed is absolutely problem. SWF is really what shows this problem more then anything. you have games as killer where you hook someone 1 minute, 2 minute, 3 minute, 4 minute, 5 minute. aka 1 minute per hook and you lose all 5 gens.
The fact that you have this as a game as killer is alarming. It is even more frustrating when it happens on maps where you have 0 CHASE input. Badham is great example of that. breaking ton of god pallets in early game only to lose so badly in gen efficiency is awful. especially for low tiers killers.
spread out isn't an issue. it is just expected gen speed. there is nothing at base-kit for killer that push-back gens for doing well. You can play chases very crappy and win. The only time killer push back is gen defence perks like Pain res+Grim embrace but this creates another problem which is…. killer having 0 perk variety. If you have to run 4 gen defence perks and proxy camp in case you get SWF that does gens in 6 minutes, that's not exactly interesting. The spreading out problem is countered by 3 gen but as we saw in old meta of 3 gen kick perks, this is not fun solution for survivor. that is why it got nerfed. a solution should be provided where killer goes for chases and when he wins chases, he doesn't lose 5 gens in 5 minutes or 6 minutes. These gen-rush's should be happening when i make mistake with my ability for long chases make poor game choices or make macro decision errors.
you just don't notice the issue because 60% of games are 4 soloq players that often crumble with few injuries and basic map presence. poor play makes you believe that killer has no gen problems or chase problems for that matter. lots of survivor don't loop that well even when it is like gideon or some map filled with good resources in said area.
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I have an even more unpopular take:
Everyone should get a fifth perk slot that's only allowed for 'support' perks. This could be tricky to balance and choose which perks to allow.
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Seeing as survivors will be forced to work on a generator really close to the killer, or wait 120 seconds; they might just alternately just do other interactions instead of putting them in guaranteed danger. This counter is already somewhat known but making it basekit will literally do nothing but encourage it.
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Even if corrupt became basekit, I feel it won't change how the killers play. Just like how they added the bar so that you can unhook yourself on hook if the killer camps, the killers that do camp just do so right outside the range of the bar progression area. Killers would just have an easier time finding player they can camp, unless the whole team can loop or if they all hide the duration of corrupt. If it's a high MMR comp like OP said, then someone might just bring plot twist and no mither just to play around the corrupt anyways. Overall, it might not impact strong SWF, but it'll definitely make solo Q much harder, which isn't a good solution. Solo Q is hard enough as is, we don't need to nerf them even more.
Honestly, the strong killers will always be strong while the mid and lower tier M1 killers will struggle more. I think it would be better if the perk abilities changed depending on what type of killer is being played. Such as sprint burst duration being shorter against M1 only killers, and longer duration against strong killers like Blight as an example. Or team friendly perks that have percentages in the description have lower or higher percentage based on what killer you play against. And similarly, against swf, killer perks can get buffs as well in a similar manner. If the perks were more prone to change based on who is played I think the overall balance would be better imo.
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Respectfully, as someone who plays both sides, and plays swf and solo equally, this is a horrible idea. While killers in higher MMR tend to struggle more, that is not majority of the player base. Survivors in lower-medium MMR range continue to struggle against the full aura or gen build killers who slug or camp and tunnel most games, and can maybe get two gens done before they're down to the las survivor. If you think corrupt should be base kit, just run corrupt. The problem isn't the base gen speed, it's the additional this survivors can bring in. The problem with buffing one side and significantly nerfing the other is that the other side will always be raging about it until they get a compensating buff, which just turns into a cycle of everyone getting back and forth nerfed then buffed. If anything, nerf the items that increase the gen speeds. Getting a gen done in 20 seconds is kind of ridiculous, but corrupt won't stop that.
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Corrupt Intervention doesn't need to be base kit if gens just took a little longer. Like, 10 extra charges would help, to make it go from 90 seconds to 100 seconds. Only issue is that many people find gens boring, so people say they don't want gens to take longer since it feels like forever. The issue is that gens aren't fun, so BHVR needs to make them somehow fun in order to increase the duration of gens. Or nerf all gen progression perks and toolboxes considering gen regression was nerfed. The solution to make Killer games less stressful is to
A. Increase Gen Time
B. Nerf Gen Progression
C. Buff Gen Regression
However, it's worth noting that increasing gen time will also shadow buff gen progression because 1% of a gen is more on a 100 charge gen than a 90 charge gen. Buffing gen regression would also make it feel bad for Survivors because they can see all that progress they lose after working on a gen for so long. So is the best solution nerfing gen progression? I don't know, maybe. Either way it all ends the same with requiring Survivors to spend more time on gens to win before the Killer kills them all.
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