Specialist's buff still isn't enough.
4% for searching or rummaging through a chest is a miserable percentage.
It's not even good to recover time in a chest build with Pharmacy and a Map, 4% is just too little.
Without a map, you might not even find a chest at all in a reasonable time.
4 Solutions:
- Buff the numbers from 4% to 9%.
- Make it something incremental in value, so the first token is 4% overall, the second it's 12% overall, the third 22%, the fourth 34%, the fifth 46%, the sixth 62%.
- Give a bigger bonus when a chest is opened for the first time.
- Give the ability to rummage through chests, which for some reason this perk doesn't give you the ability to do already…
24% for wasting time to searching or rummaging 6 chests and risking to find bad items or the useless Broken Key is BAD, the numbers are too low, especially considering that for chest builds you need usually 2/3 perks, and ideally as many Coin offerings as possible.
Comments
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Honestly if you run a plunder build it doesn't seem to be that bad. You get good items and can lock progress on a gen relatively easy, no map required. Only thing it gets hurt by is Weave (if this brings in the crazies we apologize).
As to the "solutions":
- That would be around 56% per survivor running the perk. No. Absolutely no. Hell no. We can't say no enough.
- Again, on each survivor.
- ... this one is admittedly reasonable. Only thing we can think of is how big the bonus is as people can throw shiny coins for more boxes.
- This would make it a straight upgrade to Appraisal then. We're not exactly opposed, but change appraisal first if we're adding this plz.
There are a handful of perks to show chests, the best of which in our opinion is Plunders instinct, which heavily lowers the risk of bad items and time to look for boxes. Yes you need to build into it, but you generally need to build into a lot of things to make them shine.
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It's not THAT bad, but it's still bad.
The time it takes to find a chest, open or rummage it, take the item, and going back to a gen, is so big that you'd waste way less time by just running Hyperfocus by itself.
If survivors just search chests the entire game, and the killer tunnels someone, they will be at 5 gens 3v1 extremely quickly.
If each survivor uses all of those perks, then they won't have any DS, OTR, DH, New Babysitter, Resilience, and many other perks.
Even I that I've been complaining about the absurd default gen speed if the killer uses no slowdown perk, have to say that the values are way way too little.
Even Weaving Spiders is still bad in comparison to what a 4 stars balanced perk should be.
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Again, Plunders instinct shows where chests are and gives good items, some maybe toolboxes. Its reliable and it's progress that can't be removed so is more valuable (to us atleast).
Thats depending on who the killer tunnels anyway. If they tunnel the weakest looper, it doesn't matter either way.
That's why we called it a build...your running things that synergize with each other instead of random mish mash. If you don't want to run the build then by all means don't. If you pick the perk you have less room for those perks anyway.
We feel the values are relatively fine since each survivor can run it. Remember there's 4 of them.
... we're unsure how weaving spiders popped up here buuuuut it's currently....tentatively fine (we'd rather it be 90 seconds default but that's an us thing)
Edit: when we said weave we ment Weave Attunement aka Vecna s perk.
Amen
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These numbers are way too high
I think the numbers are fine as is, it's just the perk is conceptually very niche and won't fit into the meta.0 -
These numbers are absurd. It's also not PERCENTAGE. It's CHARGES. 24 charges on a generator (90 charges) is 26.66% of a generator. So you're suggesting a Survivor should be able to shave off 68.89% of a generator by themselves, which is insanity.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with the numbers. Ultimately a perk that removes charges from a gen can't be good due to the nature of the 4v1.
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Your right, We did miss read that. Ohhhh dear.
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you have compare the amount of time that survivor spends
- walking to each chest
- opening chest
If say survivor spends 12 second to go to a chest and 10 second to open a chest. it is -22 seconds on doing gens for chests. his number do align if the perk was meant to be + in time.
If you need open 2 chests, it is -44 seconds of not doing gens. I don't think the perk should fully negate time wasted for chest open but a buff from like 4→8 would be -24 charges. their buff doesn't fix low reward of the perk.
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Reduced maximum charge is notably stronger than normal charges though
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only for defending 3 gen setups. on average killer has crap level of regression. Deja vu or % repair bonus are superior because they degrade regression and the bonus is consistent.
the killer still takes 400% regress but you progress 6% faster. so your regression is like 6% worse. effectively, it is like having 432% regression. Pain res is 6% worse. etc.
You are correct in saying that Specialist is good for 3 gens. At same time, who is really going bring chest offering and specialist to counter 3 gens. I don't think anyone going to do that.
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Time performance is definitely far worse, I just don't want any perks that makes defending gen impossible as "meta" or something that is common
I'd rather have this dead even if it costs deja vu buffed to 10%, to be honest
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ii mean defending gens is already impossible with current iteration perk. you can bring 4 BNP for -40 charges and -24 charges. -64 charges is 26 second gen. If this your last gen. your not defending a 26 second gen.
Second point is that generator are already impossible to defend because of 8 regression limit. So all survivor at base-kit have anti 3 gen mechanic. They don't really need this perk. this perk would been great vs old skull merchant but that no longer exists.
Looting chest isn't really worth it in the average soloq match. this perk is suppose make chest looting less of time sink but it is not good enough time sink reduction to use. Too low numbers.
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You also get other stuff from the chest. The equation isn't this simple.
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You can still defend gens, kinda, by multi pressure like… knight or singularity, I think, and those perks makes it harder
But then it's not like matches itself will be harder with those perks, so I don't really know
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I think it should never be better than the time investment itself, because charge limit itself gets into a scary zone to mess with.
To be fair, the limit is the total chestsx2. Rummaging can't be done multiple times, (even by different people), so the perk is already heavily limited in potential.
This doesn't really matter though, it takes ~60s to get 6 charges assuming you TP to every chest, and that only gives a charge reduction of 24. It might be usable at 5/token or 30 at max, and viable at any amount above that. 9 I think does reach the danger zone, but given the time investment (and a Killer who runs at least one Intel perk), it would be fine even at 8 (since travel time exists).
I would agree it is stronger, but only a factor of 10-25% at most.
I encourage you to spend 10 matches playing Survivor running the loot goblin build, and write down/record the results. Often times you end up having to backtrack to get a flashy/toolbox instead of holding onto a medkit, in which case it wastes too much of your time. On paper it may sound great to good, but in practice the perk only makes the build shift from 'a trolling loss' to a 'drop shack pallet at the start' grief.
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As Ohyakno said, its not so simple. Depending on what your build is going after chests is well worth the effort from green toolboxes to keys. You may have to be flexible depending on what you get but working on boxes has saved but us and teammates in the past. This perk Specialist in particular is permanent progress, which as the name implies cant be regressed by the likes of pain res or pop. After all if those 22 seconds on a gen get burned off then that time doesn't seem all that well spent. Its a trade off, spend time doing boxes, get permanent time off a gen which on maps like RPD or Swamps is a very nice blessing.
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Really? Didn't know rummaging couldn't be done by different people. In our defense, don't think we ever saw anyone try either. Well, even then its still not bad, but its gonna be a headache when everyone brings it. Everyone racing to boxes X}
The info does make OPs "solution" 2 more reasonable though.
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it is that simple. if this perk doesn't grant you an estimated 22 second recovered from searching chest between walking time and chest searching, it is not really worth selecting. This perk certainly doesn't do that.
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Yeah it'll just end up like people stacking Sable's Basement Invocation perk, doing nothing useful in 99% of cases.
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If the chest grants you a sabo box and you manage to sabo well enough to get someone to wiggle out who then proceeds to stall the killer for another good minute or two and not have something like pain res proc as a bonus… Doesn't seem so cut and dry to us as that's 1 example. There may not be consistency, but there's pros and cons.
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